Lets talk about MDM

[Ade_7]

This is a very interesting thread IMHO. It actively displays the wide range of opinions with regard to the MDM mode and the variation of drivers wishes.

I started driving the car only with TC fully on and found that it many ways it just felt odd when trying to drive it harder out of a roundabout for example. The car would seem to pull the power back but feel like it was bucking and pulling in the most strange of manners. To the point I started to wonder if there was a problem.

After some time I progressed to trying the MDM mode. Carefully at first and gradually building up to seeing what it would do after reading many people finding it would allow a lot of slip, but I think this must have been with older cars before the latest firmware updates. I've found on mine that it feels much better in most situations. Really hugely more normal in the same situations where with TC on it would behave in a very unpleasant manner.

However I really struggle to get mine to move the back end about even when i'm trying in MDM mode. It seems to just pull the power back and keep everything neat and tidy. The only time my car went a little sideways was in MDM mode when the road was damp and slippery. I wasn't going quickly and had space so it was a simple correction but other than that I generally think it is quite over protective.

But as this thread points out people want very different things and we have to remind ourselves that BMW have to try and build a car to suit all tastes and abilities.

I really want to play with TC off soon but I'm very weary of doing so for the first time without being on a track or airfield etc. This is my first very torquey RWD car so I want to get a good feel of what's going to happen with plenty of space.

I really must make an effort to get to a track soon before winter spoils any chance of it being fun!!

[dopper99]

Ade, I'm sure winter will still be fun with a powerful RWD car.


Just don't give as much gas!

[gtsussex]

I think you're absolutely spot on here with your description on both TC and MDM.

TC does horrible things to the car. Remember coming round M25/M11 N corner (one of my favourites) and car felt like I had a worn bush and tracking was all over the place - actually it was just the TC doing its thing - horrible and completely unsettling. Realised had accidentally knocked car back to default rather than M1 (was using cruise and clearly hit it) so had TC rather than MDM.

MDM on the older cars was certainly looser (and a great deal more fun). As you mention, the angle of slip given is not huge. I have worked out how to fool the car now but it's all a bit aggressive and I don't like appearing like a pillock on HM roads. Bear in mind that once you hit 3rd, MDM loosens up so never make same assumptions that you would for 2nd gear. I run with MDM on for most of the time and leave TC off for playing. I'd still like a mode in between the two with more leniency but I've learnt to love it and accept its restrictive nature and then just use TC off (which I know isn't for everyone). MDM is mighty effective for wet cross country.

BUT TC off? Holy pants - you really start to just understand how fast this car is and how restrictive even MDM can be.

Point is it's all down to throttle control and there are two issues here. Firstly a lot of people are used to having a car and just mashing the throttle. This is a 450 odd bhp RWD car - physics still come into play. It's not until 3rd gear that you're getting anything like full power with either MDM or TC even on a dry day.

Second point is the car itself. Old E92 was a pussy cat compared to this car because you didn't have a slug of torque that came in like a sledgehammer and would unsettle things. To that end it's actually quite a hard car to learn how to modulate the throttle. But with practice it can be done.

TC does a cracking job of saving you and the car. I use it when the weather is foul and I can't be bothered to concentrate (also need to replace my rears again and they are not great on standing water). Bear in mind that MDM can bite where TC on will probably save you so you have to be prepared for that (usually only a dab of oppo lock).

Point was mentioned about tyre temps. The Pilots are utterly crap at low temps. I never bother pushing the car until they have some temp in them as they will bite. Also rears are very sensitive to tread depth - after 4mm they are less than impressive in the wet (still okay for most driving but again can bite).

I wish everyone would go and do a one to one instruction on a wet airfield day with everything turned off. You'd learn a hell of a lot about the car, get more from it, be safer and also have a lot of fun.

Until such time my advice remains as it has always done. If you are playing with modes, do so progressively and safely on wide roads with no traffic (and most definitely outside built up areas). But really go and find somewhere off HM Highways to try please.

Drive safely.

[DazC]

Originally Posted by gtsussex

I think you're absolutely spot on here with your description on both TC and MDM.

TC does horrible things to the car. Remember coming round M25/M11 N corner (one of my favourites) and car felt like I had a worn bush and tracking was all over the place - actually it was just the TC doing its thing - horrible and completely unsettling. Realised had accidentally knocked car back to default rather than M1 (was using cruise and clearly hit it) so had TC rather than MDM.

MDM on the older cars was certainly looser (and a great deal more fun). As you mention, the angle of slip given is not huge. I have worked out how to fool the car now but it's all a bit aggressive and I don't like appearing like a pillock on HM roads. Bear in mind that once you hit 3rd, MDM loosens up so never make same assumptions that you would for 2nd gear. I run with MDM on for most of the time and leave TC off for playing. I'd still like a mode in between the two with more leniency but I've learnt to love it and accept its restrictive nature and then just use TC off (which I know isn't for everyone). MDM is mighty effective for wet cross country.

BUT TC off? Holy pants - you really start to just understand how fast this car is and how restrictive even MDM can be.

Point is it's all down to throttle control and there are two issues here. Firstly a lot of people are used to having a car and just mashing the throttle. This is a 450 odd bhp RWD car - physics still come into play. It's not until 3rd gear that you're getting anything like full power with either MDM or TC even on a dry day.

Second point is the car itself. Old E92 was a pussy cat compared to this car because you didn't have a slug of torque that came in like a sledgehammer and would unsettle things. To that end it's actually quite a hard car to learn how to modulate the throttle. But with practice it can be done.

TC does a cracking job of saving you and the car. I use it when the weather is foul and I can't be bothered to concentrate (also need to replace my rears again and they are not great on standing water). Bear in mind that MDM can bite where TC on will probably save you so you have to be prepared for that (usually only a dab of oppo lock).

Point was mentioned about tyre temps. The Pilots are utterly crap at low temps. I never bother pushing the car until they have some temp in them as they will bite. Also rears are very sensitive to tread depth - after 4mm they are less than impressive in the wet (still okay for most driving but again can bite).

I wish everyone would go and do a one to one instruction on a wet airfield day with everything turned off. You'd learn a hell of a lot about the car, get more from it, be safer and also have a lot of fun.

Until such time my advice remains as it has always done. If you are playing with modes, do so progressively and safely on wide roads with no traffic (and most definitely outside built up areas). But really go and find somewhere off HM Highways to try please.

Drive safely.

Good post Guy.

I fully intend to go for a training day as this car just monsters through the gears and builds speed so quickly that you could easily be caught out if inexperienced like myself!

[Ade_7]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Ade, I'm sure winter will still be fun with a powerful RWD car.


Just don't give as much gas!

Surely that's what they're for??

I think my concern now is that using MDM and getting used to being probably more agressive with the throttle to try and get the car to do what i'm after, means that i'll really have to take a steady approach when I get TC off completely...

[gtsussex]

Originally Posted by Ade_7

Surely that's what they're for??

I think my concern now is that using MDM and getting used to being probably more agressive with the throttle to try and get the car to do what i'm after, means that i'll really have to take a steady approach when I get TC off completely...

My advice Ade would be to just try TC off in straight line at lower speeds first and learn what the car does when you overcook it. Once you can control the car slipping all the way up to about 70-80mph then I'd say it's time to introduce some lateral movement as that means you've started to suss the throttle modulation. The car really is exceptionally well balanced - just that torque you need to be a bit wary of.

Again, I am not condoning learning this on HM Highways.

[MB London]

So I am now back in the car and as I have mentioned on a couple of occasions in this thread this was lesson learnt in more ways than one.

Sytner actually treated the car to a full valet which is a rarity these days, so the car was sitting just by the entrance to the show room in its full glory. as well as the car looking brand new, it very soon became quite clear that the car's software had been completely updated, the HUD was a new colour, there was a slightly different note to the exhaust, the cabin was no longer deafening from he fake exhaust but most of all the drive was just a completely different experience.

I have been critical of this car from day one tbh, as it was just not what I thought my dream car would be like. it would kangaroo in first gear, jump around pot holes on bends, lose power when the traction jumped in way too early (this was my reasoning for exploring MDM) and the ride was just awful.

I have just driven from Chigwell to my office in Canary Wharf and the smile on my face is ear to ear, this is how I thought I would feel when I first got the car.

As they say every cloud............................

[dopper99]

Very good news indeed MB London. I recall in the past how unhappy you've been, so good to hear its had the software updates.
You should enjoy better traction too now, from what others have said.

Take it for a good drive tonight, and be careful!!!!!

[gtsussex]

Originally Posted by MB London

So I am now back in the car and as I have mentioned on a couple of occasions in this thread this was lesson learnt in more ways than one.

Sytner actually treated the car to a full valet which is a rarity these days, so the car was sitting just by the entrance to the show room in its full glory. as well as the car looking brand new, it very soon became quite clear that the car's software had been completely updated, the HUD was a new colour, there was a slightly different note to the exhaust, the cabin was no longer deafening from he fake exhaust but most of all the drive was just a completely different experience.

I have been critical of this car from day one tbh, as it was just not what I thought my dream car would be like. it would kangaroo in first gear, jump around pot holes on bends, lose power when the traction jumped in way too early (this was my reasoning for exploring MDM) and the ride was just awful.

I have just driven from Chigwell to my office in Canary Wharf and the smile on my face is ear to ear, this is how I thought I would feel when I first got the car.

As they say every cloud............................

Glad you have your car back and delighted you're over the moon with it. I haven't been critical because, do you know what, we've all done things we're not proud of behind the wheel at some point during our driving career (I know I have). The crucial thing is, as I said, no-one was hurt and you learn from it (which you have been pretty honest about). I might get through a set of rears every 3.5-4k but I am right old grumpy sod if people come flying up behind me in 30 limit - it is there for a reason. Go and find some nice open rounds this evening and enjoy it.

Drive safe..

[jbtco]

Car control courses are very good but of relatively short duration and practice still required. If you can find a fairly large piece of free Tarmac where you are not causing a nuisance or empty roads eg industrial estate with nice roundabouts with good lines of sight on a Sunday morning can be good.

As I am well into my sixties most of my driving life has been spent without traction control being available (less power but much smaller and less grippy tyres as well).

I think lots of things contributing,

drive by wire throttle control is trickier than a good traditional cable system and confusing with optional settings,

turbos kicking in a load of torque

Modern sports tyres tending to need to be at working temperature and can be poor in damp / wet conditions (the pilot super sport has just performed badly in the wet in the latest Evo tyre test)

Driving in auto mode can mean that you aren't actually in your own choice of gear for a manoeuvre , and again options for settings can be confusing.

[notused]

Originally Posted by noway-85

I couldn't understand why it did it, until I checked the tyre pressure and temps, 16 degrees all round. Cold tyres and a heavy foot is not the combo needed.

At what temperature are tyres considered warm enough to be at best? Thanks

[Graves]

I drove the car really hard today in MDM for the first time through some back roads on my way to Nuremburg. I honestly couldn't notice a difference. Took some aggressive turns at high speeds but it held on fine. I'm assuming I just haven't pushed it hard enough for a slight drift of the back. I did mat the gas taking off at a light and the power was much smoother than TCS. It didn't cut the power so violently like it does with TCS on. Either way, love my F80. Absolutely love it.

Side note, I did get gapped by an R8...hard. Lol.