Adaptive suspension vs coil overs

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by mact3333

Greg,

Im still trying to figure out how you got "you know who" to do a good install for you but they really botched up my Ground Control sleeve kit and I had to pay another shop to do it correctly......

I have no idea. Think I'd go to Pacific Motorsports next time. You know who is too into bling. What sleeve kit are you referring to - couldn't find one on their website?

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by //M sa

Thanks, good to know and Dinan makes quality products even if it's over priced.

Yeah, $1,100 for a spring kit is kind of ridiculous, but no more so than the 3D Design CF spoiler I bought, I guess.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Gcat333

If you profoundly meddle with the car's suspension, you are just ruining the car. They have a whole army of scientists who analyze the components, chassis and diagnostics. They know more than you.

If you must lower your M3/M4, just understand that you're not going to match the refinement of what those guys did in the "stock" version. It cannot and will not happen.

Just get a 3 series and blow it out.

Revamping the suspension is just throwing money away. You're paying a hefty premium for the engineering on an M car.

Yes and no. Road cars are a compromise. Those 'army of scientists' produce a product that the average person will buy. It does not mean that full performance has been extracted.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Should've upgraded your shocks/struts to Bilstein B8's. If you lower a car properly, you won't suffer a loss of performance.

unless they are shortened to reflect the exact amount of drop of the springs you choose, and are re-valved to reflect the exact spring rate, its still not ideal, and still will have issues.

it may be "better" in terms of ride comfort and compliance relative to running the same really short springs on the stock shocks, but its still far from ideal.

[swifty]

I've had coils before on my e92 335 and hated how harsh it was. However, if I knew then what I know now, I'd still spring for coils but much better quality like Ohlins R&T.


Having said that, on the e92 m3, I already paid for EDC and didn't feel it was financially wise to swap them immediately for coilovers. However, I did want a lower stance and after much research I sprung for Swift Springs which are linear as opposed to progressive ones that came with the car. Yes, there is a very slight difference in the ride quality but overall it's much more stable and planted. Not sure what kind of long term effect it will have on shocks but just like coils, the quality of springs you choose will make a difference.

[RocketBoots]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Yes and no. Road cars are a compromise. Those 'army of scientists' produce a product that the average person will buy. It does not mean that full performance has been extracted.

Agreed. BMW has to cater to all the people who will get this car: spoiled rich kids, the cluless, executives, the average joe, the enthusiasts, weekend warriors, etc. The car cannot be everything to everyone. To a degree, i honestly think it can be tweaked a LITTLE BIT to get more performance, comfort, whatever without undoing all the work that went into the car.

[gee-m-w]

The suspensions on these cars are extremely well developed. You have to really put in some high quality components to exceed the manufacturer's spec and reliability. You're not doing yourself any favors putting a $1000 or $2000 coilover kit from Bilstein or KW on this car. Honestly most people just want to "drop" their M3 and they're best suited replacing only the spring. I wouldn't even touch the swaybars on a RWD car putting almost 400 hp at the rear wheels - too easy to overdo it and have the car snap out on you.

If you want comfort, go for the adaptable BMW suspension. If you want pure performance, you go for the Ohlinx TTX Motorsport coilovers. These are no joke and you will have to rebuid them every couple of years.

http://performanceshock.com/index.ph...oducts_id=1179

[solstice]

Personally I just hope the passive suspensions cater for the same taste as with the E9X. Bar none the best street suspension I ever encountered. I much prefer it to the M adaptive suspension in the M5 and M6. It's not as smooth but it make the chassis communication clearer to me, likely because I'm in my 40s and have a body and mind in tune with passive suspension after almost 30 years of adapting to how it behaves.

Don't underestimate how good a passive M suspension really is for street use.

[ixse]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

The suspensions on these cars are extremely well developed. You have to really put in some high quality components to exceed the manufacturer's spec and reliability. You're not doing yourself any favors putting a $1000 or $2000 coilover kit from Bilstein or KW on this car. Honestly most people just want to "drop" their M3 and they're best suited replacing only the spring. I wouldn't even touch the swaybars on a RWD car putting almost 400 hp at the rear wheels - too easy to overdo it and have the car snap out on you.

If you want comfort, go for the adaptable BMW suspension. If you want pure performance, you go for the Ohlinx TTX Motorsport coilovers. These are no joke and you will have to rebuid them every couple of years.

http://performanceshock.com/index.ph...oducts_id=1179

and even when you gey these "diamond" quality coils if its not tuned/set up by professional, its really mot doimg you amy favor. properly dialed in suspension is more important than most think

[gee-m-w]

Implicitly. This isn't some Costco free alignments for life job. It takes about 5 hours of labor in alignment alone to get this thing dialed in, in addition to the installation.

[RocketBoots]

Originally Posted by solstice

Personally I just hope the passive suspensions cater for the same taste as with the E9X. Bar none the best street suspension I ever encountered. I much prefer it to the M adaptive suspension in the M5 and M6. It's not as smooth but it make the chassis communication clearer to me, likely because I'm in my 40s and have a body and mind in tune with passive suspension after almost 30 years of adapting to how it behaves.

Don't underestimate how good a passive M suspension really is for street use.

Ya, that's how I feel to a degree about passive suspension. I love that active suspensions are so adaptive, but sometimes, I want to know I went over that crack or bump in the road, so if I go that way again, I know to avoid that area. I want to feel a little body roll, so that I have a somewhat more linear idea of when the/how the car's going to slide. I too am very accustomed to passive suspensions, and don't mind the harsher ride, to an extent, of sports cars. I suppose all these things can be felt with an active suspension too; it just takes a little time to get adjusted to the feedback.

At this point, I'm pretty set on the adaptive M suspension. I don't plan on doing any suspension mods. I've never thought 'slammed' cars looked good. I also don't like 20 inch wheels on this car. On my E36 and E46 M3's, I replaced the suspensions when the maintenance was due, but replaced them with 'higher quality' aftermarket parts, as per my shop. I was just toying with the idea of doing something like that right off the bat if I didn't get the adaptive M suspension. Sort of moot now. But maybe never moot, until the car's in my driveway with whatever I ordered on it :P

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

It takes about 5 hours of labor in alignment alone to get this thing dialed in, in addition to the installation.

Maybe for a DTM racecar. Not for your s4 or an m3 when replacing springs and shocks only.

Troll on brother, troll on

[/// M sa]

Well the wheel gap on the new M3 bugs me so I really wanted to do it for looks. Now I just have to wait and see.

[gee-m-w]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Maybe for a DTM racecar. Not for your s4 or an m3 when replacing springs and shocks only.

Troll on brother, troll on

I'm being sincere. It took about 3 hours to align my S4 the right way. You have to keep raising and lowering the car as you adjust each arm, and then measure to see if it's in spec when sitting. The full deal - inflate tires to 40 PSI, fill gas tank half way, put 150 pounds of dead weight in the driver's seat.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

I'm being sincere. It took about 3 hours to align my S4 the right way. You have to keep raising and lowering the car as you adjust each arm, and then measure to see if it's in spec when sitting. The full deal - inflate tires to 40 PSI, fill gas tank half way, put 150 pounds of dead weight in the driver's seat.

that's a corner balance, not an alignment

[solstice]

Originally Posted by //M sa

Well the wheel gap on the new M3 bugs me so I really wanted to do it for looks. Now I just have to wait and see.

I still have a small hope that the passive suspension will use shorter springs and sit a bit lower. We've seen test cars sitting lower but who knows why, could be ZCP testing as well. I wish we had good exterior pictures of a car with confirmed passive suspension.

[gee-m-w]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

that's a corner balance, not an alignment

Dude relax. I know you know car words. In this case I have a double wishbone suspension and adjustable control arms with heim joints. I don't have a coilovers, so no corner balance. I was just getting an alignment and I'm very particular about the caster, camber and the toe out.

You can't even corner balance an Audi becuase 100% of the weight is over the front wheels. Use the search button to find where we covered that.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

unless they are shortened to reflect the exact amount of drop of the springs you choose, and are re-valved to reflect the exact spring rate, its still not ideal, and still will have issues.

it may be "better" in terms of ride comfort and compliance relative to running the same really short springs on the stock shocks, but its still far from ideal.

They are designed to be paired with the H&R springs (..well that is the overall consensus; the B8's have been around a long time).

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

Implicitly. This isn't some Costco free alignments for life job. It takes about 5 hours of labor in alignment alone to get this thing dialed in, in addition to the installation.

Dude, you sure like to wax poetic about things.

[M3ryder55]

there is a reason why the best handling cars in the world have big fender gaps

if u track often--- coilovers

comfort/all around package--- adaptive m

want to feel the road more---- passive suspension

want the car to look aggressive- springs w/ adaptive m or passive.

when it comes to suspension, these cars are designed/engineered/track tested to perform for years. you think these companies like KW etc can engineer a suspension setup in a matter of a couple weeks that will out perform a suspension developed by bmw for years and years?...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by M3ryder55

there is a reason why the best handling cars in the world have big fender gaps

That's a stretch.

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by solstice

I still have a small hope that the passive suspension will use shorter springs and sit a bit lower. We've seen test cars sitting lower but who knows why, could be ZCP testing as well. I wish we had good exterior pictures of a car with confirmed passive suspension.

At this point all I can do is hope too lol but I am not holding my breath. I have coils on my e90 and stock on GTR, two different cars totally but love how low and centered my e90 looks compared to the GTR after lowering it.