Who is considering the 2020 Corvette?

[Obioban]

C8 Corvette vs 992

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...n-test-review/

The interior seems to be pretty universally agreed to be fixed (finally).

It's not just impacts, either. The Corvette allows far less engine and road noise into the cabin than the 911. There's more noise from those big tires, especially the front ones right next to your feet, but you can have a whispered conversation at 80 mph in the Corvette. You'll have to speak up a little in the Porsche.

It's just one of the ways in which the Corvette's cabin is nicer than the 911's, a sentence we feared we'd never get to write. The Corvette's notoriously cheap materials, gaping panel gaps, and persistent smell of glue have all been banished—and this was in an early-build car, no less.

The previous Corvette generation showed us Chevrolet could afford to give the car both performance and a nice interior, but the C8 has skipped straight past nice and into proper supercar territory. The leather is the best we've seen and felt in a Corvette by a wide margin, there's no cheap-looking hard plastic anywhere (well … the cupholders are a bit of a wince), and the seats (midgrade GT2s, in this case) strike a balance between comfort and lateral support that even some supercar builders don't get right.

Granted, our Corvette was a top-shelf 3LT trim level with the best interior you can yet buy for the car, but you can do that when the as-tested price is a Silverado less than the 911—which had zero interior dress-up options, at that. Sure, Porsche will wrap the air vent blades in leather if you put enough zeroes on the check, but out of the box, it's a stark field of dark grays and blacks all finished in varying grades of plastic and piano black. Our Carrera didn't even have power seats.

We also found the Corvette's controls more intuitively laid out—even that long strip of Chiclet buttons down the center console—though we did appreciate the Porsche's programmable hot keys on the dash and steering wheel. Similarly, the Corvette's infotainment system is less cluttered and layered, and it's easier to read at a glance and operate while the car is in motion.

The Corvette's highly customizable digital dash and the bits of theater provided by the transitions between screens won many points over the 911's pair of screens—which flank the analog tachometer and are absurdly obscured by the steering wheel. The Corvette's squircle steering wheel might take a little getting used to, but it affords a clear view of all the information on the instrument cluster.

[shay2nak]

3.5 months late to the party. This car is ugly, especially the side intakes and the back. wow. At least the C8R looks good.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Obioban

C8 Corvette vs 992

[url]https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/corvette/2020/2020-chevrolet-corvette-c8-vs-2020-porsche-911-comparison-test-review/[/url

Dang. Worth a full read. Corvette the far more comfortable highway cruiser, crazy. Farah claimed ride is McLaren-esque, so this echoes his perception.

The ABS issue they highlight -- not unique to the C8, apparently a GM thing. Could not work around on track in my Z/28. Eventually just accepted it, not ideal though. Amazing braking power, but always found ABS hyperactivity annoying as compared to my M cars. Arguably offset by GM's killer traction control system, which BMW lacks entirely...

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

3.5 months late to the party. This car is ugly, especially the side intakes and the back. wow. At least the C8R looks good.

lol, so it's a dumpster fire but killer with a drop, wing, and aero bits? Sounds like you'll be a fan of the Z06.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

3.5 months late to the party. This car is ugly, especially the side intakes and the back. wow. At least the C8R looks good.

I’m no fan of the cartoonish looks either. Nor do I think the design will age well.

I’m surprised that even with all the extra hp, torque and a stickier tire the C8 was slower or worse in just about every metric on and off the track. Both do offer more than enough performance, and this is by and large just the starting point for each.

[4everkidd]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

I’m no fan of the cartoonish looks either. Nor do I think the design will age well.

I’m surprised that even with all the extra hp, torque and a stickier tire the C8 was slower or worse in just about every metric on and off the track. Both do offer more than enough performance, and this is by and large just the starting point for each.

Because Porsche...

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Dang. Worth a full read. Corvette the far more comfortable highway cruiser, crazy. Farah claimed ride is McLaren-esque, so this echoes his perception.

Makes sense to me that the base c8 (the one priced like an m4 or c63 coupe) is more of a fast and comfy highway cruiser. That’s what’s the usual rental car customer or retiree can handle. Understeer in the base model (that still has a lot of acceleration potential) to keep people shiny side up on public roads is a reasonable design choice.

Fingers crossed that means the z06 will truly be an all out track star with lots of aero support and no holds barred “time attack” suspension tuning philosophy.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Makes sense to me that the base c8 (the one priced like an m4 or c63 coupe) is more of a fast and comfy highway cruiser. That’s what’s the usual rental car customer or retiree can handle. Understeer in the base model (that still has a lot of acceleration potential) to keep people shiny side up on public roads is a reasonable design choice.

Fingers crossed that means the z06 will truly be an all out track star with lots of aero support and no holds barred “time attack” suspension tuning philosophy.

I agree that's how the base corvette should be.

But... the Z51 shouldn't be. There's no reason for the rental car agencies or retirees to spec the Z51, and there's a huge group of people that want the car to handle properly... and don't necessarily want the extra speed of the Z06.

The understeer/brake feel/steering feel reports have pretty well killed my C8 desires. 500hp is just about perfect in a car that size/weight-- I don't really want 650-750hp-- especially if it ends up being torquey (turbo) hp.

Or, looked at another way-- regardless of speed, all boxsters/caymans/911s have proper dynamics-- including the ones that are fast and comfortable highway cruisers.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I agree that's how the base corvette should be.

But... the Z51 shouldn't be. There's no reason for the rental car agencies or retirees to spec the Z51, and there's a huge group of people that want the car to handle properly... and don't necessarily want the extra speed of the Z06.

The understeer/brake feel/steering feel reports have pretty well killed my C8 desires. 500hp is just about perfect in a car that size/weight-- I don't really want 650-750hp-- especially if it ends up being torquey (turbo) hp.

Or, looked at another way-- regardless of speed, all boxsters/caymans/911s have proper dynamics-- including the ones that are fast and comfortable highway cruisers.

You are looking for the Grand Sport. Z51 didn't transform the early C7 either, later C7 variants were the best.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

You are looking for the Grand Sport. Z51 didn't transform the early C7 either, later C7 variants were the best.

100% agreed early C7s didn't drive well, and later ones did-- that gives me hope.

Grand Sport may be my salvation. That said, that's not all win-- the wide body necessitates wide tires, which makes tracking significantly more expensive.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Obioban

100% agreed early C7s didn't drive well, and later ones did-- that gives me hope.

Grand Sport may be my salvation. That said, that's not all win-- the wide body necessitates wide tires, which makes tracking significantly more expensive.

If you're looking for a track rat, a c7gs, or someone's previously modded c6z or c5z needs to get considered, instead of new c8 street car

I was speaking with some "spec corvette" guys, and 315 wide 200tw tires all around, 380whp and 3200lb with driver seems like a ton of fun. And we are taking vette prices for repair and maintenance, not p-car

There's a 500whp unlimited class C5z for sale for $14k here in norcal. Let me know if you want me to put you in touch with the owner (who previously own my SM)

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

If you're looking for a track rat, a c7gs, or someone's previously modded c6z or c5z needs to get considered, instead of new c8 street car

I was speaking with some "spec corvette" guys, and 315 wide 200tw tires all around, 380whp and 3200lb with driver seems like a ton of fun. And we are taking vette prices for repair and maintenance, not p-car

There's a 500whp unlimited class C5z for sale for $14k here in norcal. Let me know if you want me to put you in touch with the owner (who previously own my SM)

I'm interested in the C8 because it (should be) a reliable mid engine car with usable practicality for long distance touring for my wife. I'm looking for a trackable car, not a track car (rat).

Similar to my 20,000 track mile e46 M3-- that is still 100% fine as a long distance family street car.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Makes sense to me that the base c8 (the one priced like an m4 or c63 coupe) is more of a fast and comfy highway cruiser. That’s what’s the usual rental car customer or retiree can handle. Understeer in the base model (that still has a lot of acceleration potential) to keep people shiny side up on public roads is a reasonable design choice.

Fingers crossed that means the z06 will truly be an all out track star with lots of aero support and no holds barred “time attack” suspension tuning philosophy.

Originally Posted by Obioban

I agree that's how the base corvette should be.

But... the Z51 shouldn't be. There's no reason for the rental car agencies or retirees to spec the Z51, and there's a huge group of people that want the car to handle properly... and don't necessarily want the extra speed of the Z06.

The understeer/brake feel/steering feel reports have pretty well killed my C8 desires. 500hp is just about perfect in a car that size/weight-- I don't really want 650-750hp-- especially if it ends up being torquey (turbo) hp.

Or, looked at another way-- regardless of speed, all boxsters/caymans/911s have proper dynamics-- including the ones that are fast and comfortable highway cruisers.

Do we have any info on C8 alignment/camber adjustability? Understeer fix might just be a matter of dialing in GM track alignment specs.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Do we have any info on C8 alignment/camber adjustability? Understeer fix might just be a matter of dialing in GM track alignment specs.

The GM chassis engineers stated it can't be fixed without significant, fundamental changes... and it's only one of 3-4 main issues (brake feel, steering feel, automatic trans).

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Obioban

The GM chassis engineers stated it can't be fixed without significant, fundamental changes... and it's only one of 3-4 main issues (brake feel, steering feel, automatic trans).

just found this. Sounds promising to me https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...track-hopefuls

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Obioban

The GM chassis engineers stated it can't be fixed without significant, fundamental changes... and it's only one of 3-4 main issues (brake feel, steering feel, automatic trans).

Check out this article which details the possible adjustments.

Edit: this is the same link that FormulaMMM posted

It seems like there is height adjustability (fronts non adjustable if you get the front axle lift kit), two piece thread toe links in the rear, camber can be changed using shims, etc.

Author suggests the stock car can be fully corner weighted, rear can be raised, front control arms shimmed for more camber. All of which should help to dial out the understeer.

[Obioban]

Reducing understeer is always easy-- increase front end grip (softer sways, springs, or tires) or decrease rear end grip (stiffer springs, sways, or tires).

Doing while creating a cohesive driving experience (e.g. a neutral, controllable car on the limit) is what's hard.

GMs suspension engineers have stated that fundamental changes will have to be made to the cars setup to address the issue-- to me that does not imply changing the alignment settings or built in adjusters (or anything as simple as spring/sway stiffness changes).

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Check out this article which details the possible adjustments.

Edit: this is the same link that FormulaMMM posted

It seems like there is height adjustability (fronts non adjustable if you get the front axle lift kit), two piece thread toe links in the rear, camber can be changed using shims, etc.

Author suggests the stock car can be fully corner weighted, rear can be raised, front control arms shimmed for more camber. All of which should help to dial out the understeer.

Yeah, find it pretty hard to believe that GM would take the front-engine C7 platform to its performance limit, transition to a mid-engine layout to (in part) expand those limits, then build in severe, unresolvable understeer.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Obioban

GMs suspension engineers have stated that fundamental changes will have to be made to the cars setup to address the issue-- to me that does not imply changing the alignment settings or built in adjusters (or anything as simple as spring/sway stiffness changes).

Sorry if I'm missing -- where are they saying this?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Yeah, find it pretty hard to believe that GM would take the front-engine C7 platform to its performance limit, transition to a mid-engine layout to (in part) expand those limits, then build in severe, unresolvable understeer.

Especially if they go through the trouble of adding in so much adjustment into the suspension (dear BMW, please make m3 that adjustable in the future)

I guess we'll see once they get into owner's hands and the tweaking starts what it takes to sort it out

Also looking forward to what Randy P / Andy Pilgrim caliber reviewers say about it at the track

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Sorry if I'm missing -- where are they saying this?

I can't seem to find it again now-- Jason Cammisa posted it after talking with some of the chassis engineers.

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Especially if they go through the trouble of adding in so much adjustment into the suspension (dear BMW, please make m3 that adjustable in the future)

I guess we'll see once they get into owner's hands and the tweaking starts what it takes to sort it out

Also looking forward to what Randy P / Andy Pilgrim caliber reviewers say about it at the track

I have about 0% confidence in online reviews of anything suspension related. 98% of people make their car handle worse when they change the suspension.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I can't seem to find it again now-- Jason Cammisa posted it after talking with some of the chassis engineers.



I have about 0% confidence in online reviews of anything suspension related. 98% of people make their car handle worse when they change the suspension.

Based on Jason C feedback, f80 is a steaming pile of do-do that needs to be sent to the crusher, but we owners/former owners know it’s just some camber plates, 275 wide front/305 wide rear tire and brake pads away from being a great dual purpose track toy.

My guess is some alignment tweaks and different tire will have a transformative effect on the c8z51 but we’ll see how it all plays out.

I personally have more faith in owners in the track section of a platform’s forums than Jason C hyperbole