M4 Manual or Dual Clutch Transmission DCT? Video compare

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Hey Sam

As a high performance driving instructor, I need to nag you about something

You are sitting way too far from the steering wheel. With your shoulder blades against the seat back, you should be able to rest your wrist on the top of the steering wheel. This way, when you are seated with hands at 3 and 9, your elbows should have a ~90deg angle. This will allow you to do over 180deg rotations of the steering wheel without having to move your hands.

Sorry for this, but it bugged me the whole time I watched the vid

Cheers, cool vid and cool car

me too I can't stand that! I don't know how many times the first thing that goes through my head is - sitting too far.

As long as you can do a full 180 degree turn with both hands on the wheel comfortably while staying planted in the seat is fine as well.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

except he's not doing the rev matching LOL

That's neither a bad thing nor takes away from the 6MT experience enjoyment for most.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

That's neither a bad thing nor takes away from the 6MT experience enjoyment for most.

what? That's the best part. I heel toe in parking lots going 10 mph. LOL

[techwhiz]

The biggest reason for DCT if you ever valet park is that the valet can't do a miss shift and cost you an engine and your warranty.

I wish BMW would put a valet mode on cars. With valet mode on a manual, it would never get above 2000 rpm. On a DCT or automatic, the car would be limited to a "granny" mode where the turbos never spool.

[RedBolden]

Before I bought my M4, I test drove many cars including a Cayman S that all had some type of a dual clutch transmission. I hated every one of them including the M4. No 3rd pedal = Automatic. It doesn't matter how much faster the DCT is, it'll never be as much fun. If the f82 is the last of the manuals, I'm keeping the one I have.

[04cobra]

Originally Posted by techwhiz

The biggest reason for DCT if you ever valet park is that the valet can't do a miss shift and cost you an engine and your warranty.

I wish BMW would put a valet mode on cars. With valet mode on a manual, it would never get above 2000 rpm. On a DCT or automatic, the car would be limited to a "granny" mode where the turbos never spool.

Ya but the DCT is so damn confusing that the valet probably wont be able to drive the DCT anyway. All I know is that when I test drove an M4 with DCT there was too much button pressing and that P button, I said F this give me the manual.

I am sure the DCT is great, but I want one or the other (manual or automatic) not a half ass combination of a manual gearbox, even if its way better in terms of performance.

[Cooltones]

Nick,
LOVE and APPRECIATE your videos!
I must say that one negative byproduct of seeing your videos is the fact that my 10-year old daughter now wants a "Doggie like Nick has..."

Thanks for sharing!

-Tony

[brianeck]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

6th gear is an overdrive gear. It has a .85 ratio.

I guess what I mean is even more of an overdrive gear then. I'm sitting just under 3k RPMs on the highway. . . that could be way lower and has been lower in almost every other car I've ever driven. The RPM drop from 5th to 6th isn't particularly noticeable.

[flightz71]

DCT really is a precision surgical tool - on the track (lucky enough to drive the Ring with a DCT M4), I didn't miss my 6-speed e92 M3 for even a second. I have no time to focus on downshifts, rev matches but instead just hanging on for my dear life point the car correctly into corners. DCT 110% for sure.

But I can count the total track days I've done on 1 hand in my literal 10 years of owning M and sports cars... 9/10 cars I have owned have been manual. Exactly as the video states, for everyday street driving and mountain carving - the stick shift just brings a sense of joy and fun a dual clutch can't offer.

What I'm more curious about is how the M4 feels with 1 less gear / all the gears in the 6-spd box being a bit longer. Is it noticeably slower?

I had both flavors of the e63 M6 in my possession before - SMG and 6-spd. The former, a horrid transmission for the street but was mated to the motor way better than the latter 6-spd I bought. It was always out of it's power band, gears felt mismatched with the S85 motor.

I just worry it's similar for the F82 (never had a chance to drive a e92 DCT, but my e92 6-spd feels great).

[Deja_Vu]

Originally Posted by new2the3

I have been driving 6mt in my 135i for the past 6.5 years. I love it but I feel like I'm getting tired of shifting Monday through Friday during my commute that has a ton of stop and go. I love it on the weekends and when I'm not in traffic (25% of the time). Would I regret a DCT?

My last car was a 8-speed ECT (on a IS 350 F-Sport) and while I loved the car (albeit it was lacking in power for it's weight), I really, really was missing the MT I had for the previous 10 years. This time around I had no hesitation picking a MT even though it's slightly slower.

[Bent_remy]

Originally Posted by rr006rbc

I don't care what anyone says about how glorious DCTs are..if I get into any car and there isn't a pedal on the far left that I need to depress before starting the engine I'm not happy for two reasons:

1. It's not a manual transmission
2. I probably hurt my ankle or foot thinking there was a clutch pedal

Agreed. Have you ever slammed on the brake with your left foot while driving a rental car and almost kill everybody in the immediate vicinity because you forgot that some cars shift gears all by themselves? I know I have.

Thats why I drive stick.

FWIW I can drive, eat, drink, talk, text, check thearter show times, roll an L and compute complex equations all at the same time.....

I just choose not to.

[bradleyland]

Haven't driven an F8x with DCT, but when I drove my DCT E92 back to back with an F80 M3, I felt like the F80 + S55 was very well suited to a manual transmission. As we carved up the mountains, the S65 required a lot of shifting to really stay on boil. I'm not sure the DCT really delivers much in terms of actual performance in that setting, but I found myself getting pretty fatigued driving my E92 DCT (for more than one reason).

When I switched to the F80 with a 6MT, I was able to enjoy the drive a bit more, and the massive flexibility of the S55 made it much easier to enjoy the experience of working through the gears and driving the car. It's really the whole package that made it so much less frenetic and more confidence inspiring, but I really enjoyed the 6MT int he F8x.

So for my money, the 6MT would be the way to go in the F8x. I just think it fits the chassis and engine better.

[jbl16]

Originally Posted by new2the3

I have been driving 6mt in my 135i for the past 6.5 years. I love it but I feel like I'm getting tired of shifting Monday through Friday during my commute that has a ton of stop and go. I love it on the weekends and when I'm not in traffic (25% of the time). Would I regret a DCT?

Nope, DCT offers the best of both worlds. True stop and go traffic gets old very quickly with a MT.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Bent_remy

Agreed. Have you ever slammed on the brake with your left foot while driving a rental car and almost kill everybody in the immediate vicinity because you forgot that some cars shift gears all by themselves? I know I have.

Thats why I drive stick.

FWIW I can drive, eat, drink, talk, text, check thearter show times, roll an L and compute complex equations all at the same time.....

I just choose not to.

Drove manuals only for years and years before this current car. Dropping your left foot on the brake in an M3 is a very unpleasant experience when you're not expecting it. Doesn't exactly thrill the wife either.

Her: "WTF ARE YOU DOING!?"

Me:

[Jashan]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

Guess you never want to drive a Ferrari

You have weak ankles then

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by brianeck

I guess what I mean is even more of an overdrive gear then. I'm sitting just under 3k RPMs on the highway. . . that could be way lower and has been lower in almost every other car I've ever driven. The RPM drop from 5th to 6th isn't particularly noticeable.

I'm guessing you didn't come from an e92M3 - I think cruising at 80mph is about 4k rpms. Sometimes I think I'm in 5th gear and reach to grab down and it's already in 6th. lol.

I'll take under 3k anyday.

[Blindside_137]

I do have a question.

When using launch control or hard DCT accelerations, does the gear change happen so quickly that it isn't jerky? Or that slight kick is the only feeling of the gear change.

Compared to hard accelerations in the 6MT, gear changes aren't as fast and as a passenger I felt like it was a bucking bronco. No experience in a DCT yet.

Thanks for the video!

[rap427]

The real question is do we drive these cars for all out speed or the joy of driving a performance car. Most if not all my cars will exceed 150 mph and a couple 190 mph, now ask me how often I have driven over 90 mph.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

I do have a question.

When using launch control or hard DCT accelerations, does the gear change happen so quickly that it isn't jerky? Or that slight kick is the only feeling of the gear change.

Compared to hard accelerations in the 6MT, gear changes aren't as fast and as a passenger I felt like it was a bucking bronco. No experience in a DCT yet.

Thanks for the video!

It all depends. The speed of the shifts can be adjusted with DCT. In the lower settings, it's perfectly smooth, even under hard acceleration. As you turn it up, the shifts become more abrupt. At the highest settings, it can hit really hard if you have strong traction in shifts between 1–2 and 2–3.

The difference is that with DCT, there's no momentary deceleration. With a 6MT, you press the clutch in and the car immediately begins to decelerate. This tosses your head forward. When you release the clutch for the next gear, your head gets slammed back.

Even the hardest shift settings in DCT don't feel like this. They feel different. Hard shifts with DCT feel like a bang, not a buck. It's not the speed of the shift that makes it feel different, it's the fact that there is no break in acceleration.

[Simon H]

Nick,
I picked up on you having trouble, with getting the car in Park ?. If you push the start button twice, on switch off, it will put itself into Park, every single time, regardless if you have it in gear or Neutral. Great video, thankyou, but dont you dare swap for a manual, regards, SIMON.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by rap427

The real question is do we drive these cars for all out speed or the joy of driving a performance car. Most if not all my cars will exceed 150 mph and a couple 190 mph, now ask me how often I have driven over 90 mph.

Having owned a DCT car now, I don't dismiss it like I used to. There's a lot to enjoy about DCT. Drivelogic is what really makes it for me. The problem with most manu-matics is that you can't really choose the character of the shifts. Many have a sport setting, but there's not much adjustability.

Drivelogic is really phenomenal. Regardless of how lazy I'm feeling, I can pop Drivelogic in to S4 and enjoy the awesome S65 induction sound of a massive throttle blip as I downshift. This advantage is diminished significantly by the rev-matching feature of the F8x, but DCT still has its fun aspects.

[BEMR]

No the real question is, how's your dog? I gotta Shitzu every time he gets in my car he'll only ride behind my neck, dangerous and uncomfortable to say the least at 15 lbs, I don't know you but have seen a couple of your vids, and think about you whenever Rusty is in my car, I can see your dog in the back just taking it all in in a very comfortable manner, thanks for letting me see that Nick!