Input on road course telemetry app for iPhone

[FrankMstein]

Looking to get back into track driving this year. What apps do you all use? I would like to record video and times. I haven't researched too far. Harrys/Petrol, TrackAddict, RaceChrono...? Advantages/dissadvantages?

[bloke79]

I use a combination of Harry's Laptimer, a 10Hz External GPS and a GoPro something or other for video.

GPS: https://www.dualgpssolutions.com/exp...roduct/xgps160

Stitch it all together with Dashware.
http://www.dashware.net/

Probably not the easiest way to do it, but works fine for me.

Output looks like this, although the gauges etc are all customisable:

If I could be bothered plugging in an ODB2 reader, I'd be able to get throttle, etc etc, but that all seems too much effort

<edit> I should note... The 10hz GPS was important to get better quality telemetry. Iphone GPS just doesn't update quickly enough to give good track data.

[jfritz27]

If you just want the basics, I think the following setup (what I use) strikes the best balance between ease of use and what you get:

RaceChrono + external GPS + wireless OBD2 + GoPro
Optional: Add a cheap wired lavalier mic to the GoPro, run it through your trunk, and tape it to your license plate for better engine sound.
Everything talks to your phone/RaceChrono pretty seamlessly. I use the SkyPro XGPS160

With this setup, you do need to import the corresponding GoPro vids into your phone (using a portable card reader), then you ID those vid files within RaceChrono to synchronize with the data. It's auto-sync feature works quite well, click one button and done. Then, also within RaceChrono you export the sync'd vid with whatever overlay you want to an mp4. You then can send that file wherever.

Here's one of my vids with this setup

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Lots of people like the garmin catalyst - $1000.

@Jfritz27

where/how is your gopro mounted in that vid? Seat back suction cup with extension arm?

by the way, Senna was also a head tilter.

[FrankMstein]

[QUOTE=jfritz27;28437033]If you just want the basics, I think the following setup (what I use) strikes the best balance between ease of use and what you get:

RaceChrono + external GPS + wireless OBD2 + GoPro
Optional: Add a cheap wired lavalier mic to the GoPro, run it through your trunk, and tape it to your license plate for better engine sound.
Everything talks to your phone/RaceChrono pretty seamlessly. I use the SkyPro XGPS160

With this setup, you do need to import the corresponding GoPro vids into your phone (using a portable card reader), then you ID those vid files within RaceChrono to synchronize with the data. It's auto-sync feature works quite well, click one button and done. Then, also within RaceChrono you export the sync'd vid with whatever overlay you want to an mp4. You then can send that file wherever.

Here's one of my vids with this setup

Nice!
I have a wireless dongle, I'll see if it works.
I have an iphone and can't use a card reader??? Doesn't GoPro synch to your phone already?

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by D_SheerDrivingPleasure

Lots of people like the garmin catalyst - $1000.

@Jfritz27

where/how is your gopro mounted in that vid? Seat back suction cup with extension arm?

by the way, Senna was also a head tilter.

Hah, yeah, my head does what it wants Part of it I think is that I'm thin so even with bolsters tightened up I still slide around a bit in the 3pt... really makes me want to step up to harness bar etc. but I'm kinda too lazy at the moment. I also like being able to haul my track wheels upright in the back seat.

Yes, gopro mounted to suction mount on rear passenger seat with extension bar. When on track I have it tethered with paracord.

EDIT: And in GoPro I'm using the shake reduction on the most mild setting. You definitely need some, it's amazing what even the mild setting does.

[jfritz27]

[QUOTE=FrankMstein;28438501]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

If you just want the basics, I think the following setup (what I use) strikes the best balance between ease of use and what you get:

RaceChrono + external GPS + wireless OBD2 + GoPro
Optional: Add a cheap wired lavalier mic to the GoPro, run it through your trunk, and tape it to your license plate for better engine sound.
Everything talks to your phone/RaceChrono pretty seamlessly. I use the SkyPro XGPS160

With this setup, you do need to import the corresponding GoPro vids into your phone (using a portable card reader), then you ID those vid files within RaceChrono to synchronize with the data. It's auto-sync feature works quite well, click one button and done. Then, also within RaceChrono you export the sync'd vid with whatever overlay you want to an mp4. You then can send that file wherever.

Here's one of my vids with this setup

Nice!
I have a wireless dongle, I'll see if it works.
I have an iphone and can't use a card reader??? Doesn't GoPro synch to your phone already?

GoPro does sync with the phone, but for a whole session if you're recording 1080 @ 60 fps (what my vids are) the total size is something like 8 GB I think, maybe a few more. So while you could wirelessly transfer the files from GoPro into phone I think a direct card reader is faster.

This is the reader I use, works fine:
https://www.amazon.com/Reader-Adapte...83&sr=8-8&th=1

[NYG]

RaceChrono Pro has always been my favorite. User friendly, great interface.

I loved my Garmin Catalyst and now you can pull video with telemetry data which makes it even better. That was one of the earlier complaints. It does come with a high entry fee but you take care of GPS/Camera/App with one unit which makes it easy to take on the go. I can't tell you how many times I've forgotten my XGPS, a battery for my GoPro or a memory card.

I sold my Catalyst after my crash at WGI because I wanted to give it a little bit of time to regain confidence in my new car before I start pushing corner speeds and overall lap times. (It survived an almost 100 mph crash)

Highly recommended otherwise.

[TrackEnthusiast]

There is another option for those who want to spare some bucks (my case). Recently, I've put together some code to use a GoPro as video and GPS along with the MLaptimer app. It is very straight forward to use, no need for wiring into any ECU neither pairing different devices via bluetooth. All you need is to go out on the track while recording with the GoPro and with the MLaptimer app. By the way, the MLaptimer for iPhone is a really cool app, specially if you consider that the car sensors (but the GPS) are very accurate.

The code I've put together will parse the MLaptimer low res GPS track with the high res GPS track from the camera, sync everything together, and output a csv file for rendering videos with Dashware or RaceRender. Even better, it also outputs a .vbo file, which can be used in CT to analyze the driving, with very good quality (of course, quality depends on how good you set up the GoPro). Check the results below and access www.easy-telemetry.com to know more. Note: processing the app files is free, but there is a little fee for processing GoPro files.

[MNGo4M3]

I still go super basic and just use Harry's Lap Timer using my phone camera and a basic short armed Ram mount to the windshield. If you're only looking for lap times/video/basic data logging and don't have a GoPro, then this is probably one of the least expensive ways to start. Can easily build up from there with other additions (external GPS, GoPro, etc.), but Harry's has been solid for our group.

[TrackEnthusiast]

Originally Posted by MNGo4M3

I still go super basic and just use Harry's Lap Timer using my phone camera and a basic short armed Ram mount to the windshield. If you're only looking for lap times/video/basic data logging and don't have a GoPro, then this is probably one of the least expensive ways to start. Can easily build up from there with other additions (external GPS, GoPro, etc.), but Harry's has been solid for our group.

Yep, Harry's and a good cell phone does the trick for basic lapping and video. I used it for some years until buying my first GoPro camera, which dramatically improved the quality of my onboard videos. Then, after some time, I also started to get frustrated with the cell phone GPS quality. Often, I was in events with timing by transponders which I could compare to the apps timing and realized that, many times, the app lap times were off by a significant amount... At this time I started to consider buying an external GPS (like a Qstarz), but then I figured that the GoPro GPS was even better, and thats when I figured I could do what I did above.

[MNGo4M3]

Originally Posted by TrackEnthusiast

Yep, Harry's and a good cell phone does the trick for basic lapping and video. I used it for some years until buying my first GoPro camera, which dramatically improved the quality of my onboard videos. Then, after some time, I also started to get frustrated with the cell phone GPS quality. Often, I was in events with timing by transponders which I could compare to the apps timing and realized that, many times, the app lap times were off by a significant amount... At this time I started to consider buying an external GPS (like a Qstarz), but then I figured that the GoPro GPS was even better, and thats when I figured I could do what I did above.

If you're looking for tenths/hundredths of a second for accurate timing, I couldn't agree more. We take all times and metrics with a grain of salt as directionally accurate. Get the external GPS for more accuracy as some of our group has shifted in that direction already now that they're at a much higher level. From other hand timing outside the car and what's coming across our HUD, it does a pretty good job. Plenty of others out there also that I'd guess would be good also.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by NYG

RaceChrono Pro has always been my favorite. User friendly, great interface.

I loved my Garmin Catalyst and now you can pull video with telemetry data which makes it even better. That was one of the earlier complaints. It does come with a high entry fee but you take care of GPS/Camera/App with one unit which makes it easy to take on the go. I can't tell you how many times I've forgotten my XGPS, a battery for my GoPro or a memory card.

I sold my Catalyst after my crash at WGI because I wanted to give it a little bit of time to regain confidence in my new car before I start pushing corner speeds and overall lap times. (It survived an almost 100 mph crash)

Highly recommended otherwise.

Another thumbs up for Race Chrono and Garmin Catalyst here. Both offer quick post session data analysis. With the Garmin, you get a slick GUI and instant 3 sector analysis for the most time gains. Not as powerful as AIM data and a laptop, but as a self contained unit, it's pretty damn great and painlessly easy. The downside of the Garmin Catalyst is the inability to grab OBD telemetry, so I still run RaceChrono for that data and for creating my own overlays.

Echoing what has been said, get an external faster GPS device instead of using the phone's GPS.

[FrankMstein]

RaceChrono doesn't always start the camera

[FrankMstein]

Was using GPS from the GoPro like Road Atlanta and its ALLL messed up by the track diagram as you can see.

[TrackEnthusiast]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

Was using GPS from the GoPro like Road Atlanta and its ALLL messed up by the track diagram as you can see.

Hey man, very nice driving and videos!!! You just got a new subscriber to your YT channel.

About the GoPro GPS quality, it really looks like it is no good, but maybe it could be the processing or the rendering of the track pic that is the problem. If you process the data in my website then I can take a look at it and see if the problem is the data or the processing. Just go to https://easy-telemetry.herokuapp.com/ , subscribe and then you can process your videos for free.

Another thing that could have happend with your GPS data, is that in Road Atlanta the sky was really clear and in Charlotte the day was cloudy, but usually that doesn't give that much difference. Another important thing to nottice is if you gave the cameras GPS enough time to get a GPS lock before start recording. Check out the video below about how to get good GPS signal with GoPro:

PS: Why dont you use the BMW MLaptimer app to get the cars data? The datas on your videos doesn't look as accurate as you would get with the app. Check the video below for comparison:

[FrankMstein]

Thanks! Those videos and not going to be public for insurance or warranty reasons. Probably doesn't matter anyway. It was cloudy that day on and off. I will try and see of I can upload. Technology these days is not agreeing with me but I'll try. Look at those G forces at the bottom end of RA, 5G, LOL, as if!

RA was 18 deg and ended up 48! CMS was 69 and ended up 60. My CCB's are probably fried. I would do Carolina Motorsports Park next weekend if it weren't for that. I have a friend that is an expert at carbon ceramics to look at them after I weigh them.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by TrackEnthusiast

Hey man, very nice driving and videos!!! You just got a new subscriber to your YT channel.

About the GoPro GPS quality, it really looks like it is no good, but maybe it could be the processing or the rendering of the track pic that is the problem. If you process the data in my website then I can take a look at it and see if the problem is the data or the processing. Just go to https://easy-telemetry.herokuapp.com/ , subscribe and then you can process your videos for free.

Another thing that could have happend with your GPS data, is that in Road Atlanta the sky was really clear and in Charlotte the day was cloudy, but usually that doesn't give that much difference. Another important thing to nottice is if you gave the cameras GPS enough time to get a GPS lock before start recording. Check out the video below about how to get good GPS signal with GoPro:

PS: Why dont you use the BMW MLaptimer app to get the cars data? The datas on your videos doesn't look as accurate as you would get with the app. Check the video below for comparison:

I've never used the BMW M laptimer app... it looks like you filmed your lap with a GoPro. Is it easy to connect the GoPro? Or do you import the video into the app then use their overlay?

EDIT: nevermind, I just saw you earlier post. So you just dump the GoPro video and data from the app into Dashware or RaceRender?

[jmg]

Another option, if you want instant feedback and some AI "coaching" is the Garmin Catalyst. The Catalyst does not get data through the OBDII, but though GPS and the camera to analyze your position on the track. It gives coaching cues through each section based on your fastest time through the section for the day. It also gives you feed back and 3 “opportunities” to reduce your lap time, also based on your other laps including brake zones, apex placement, and speed. You can do this right on the device immediately after each session. You can watch your video right on the device.

I use both RaceChrono and the Garmin Catalyst. The Garmin's video is not as good as the 4K Gopro, obviously, but it's much easier to put it together, you just export it right from the device onto a card. With RaceChrono I have to import the GoPro then line up the video, choose my layouts and export... it's a few more steps you can't do at the track unless you bring a laptop or transfer the 4k footage from the GoPro to your phone, which takes a LONG time.

Anyway, here is the same lap recorded by two devices, you can see how each is different. Notice the Garmin coaching me through the course:

My current setup with RaceChrono and the Garmin Catalyst:

[TrackEnthusiast]

Originally Posted by jmg

I've never used the BMW M laptimer app... it looks like you filmed your lap with a GoPro. Is it easy to connect the GoPro? Or do you import the video into the app then use their overlay?

Hey man, glad you liked it! Yes, this video was filmed with a GoPro and the data overlaid was acquired with the MLaptimer app. If your GoPro doesn't have a GPS, you just have to export the MLaptimer file to your PC and upoload it to my website (https://easy-telemetry.herokuapp.com). As a result, you'll get a CSV file that you can use to render videos in DashWare or RaceRender. If you choose DashWare, you'll find in the website the templates for the gauges just like in the video above, as well as video tutorials on how to render the data to the video. The down side of using a GoPro without GPS, is that the position and timing data you'll get won't be very accurate, because there will be only the car's GPS data (1 pt/sec) and also, you'll have to manually synchronize the data to the video (no big deal).

However, if you film your session with a GoPro with GPS enabled AND record with the MLaptimer app, then you'll have 2 sets of data with 2 GPS tracks. Then, if you process the video and the MLaptimer fille in the website, the code in the server will integrate the 2 data sets into 1 with 20 pts/sec for all the data (position and car signals). With this data set you can render videos without the need to manually synch and even better, use circuit tools to analyze your driving.

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by jmg

I've never used the BMW M laptimer app... it looks like you filmed your lap with a GoPro. Is it easy to connect the GoPro? Or do you import the video into the app then use their overlay?

EDIT: nevermind, I just saw you earlier post. So you just dump the GoPro video and data from the app into Dashware or RaceRender?

The RaceChrono is SUPPOSED to start the GoPro recording but doesn't sometimes. It takes a while to import the video and its not real logical (very user friendly) BUT if you import the whole video from the GP (they are only 8:53? long and you have to stitch them together) into the RC you can just tap on the "fastest lap" or any lap and the RC software will single out the lap and you can export the video with all three layers of telemetry. I only used one. I wish someone whould take the time to put together a comprehensive video of the video recording settings all the way to exporting. I have had to favorite this video in order to repeat the process. BTW: If you run with traction control on you will cook your rear brakes and/or boil your fluid and you may find you have no brakes at the end of a straight.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

The RaceChrono is SUPPOSED to start the GoPro recording but doesn't sometimes. It takes a while to import the video and its not real logical (very user friendly) BUT if you import the whole video from the GP (they are only 8:53? long and you have to stitch them together) into the RC you can just tap on the "fastest lap" or any lap and the RC software will single out the lap and you can export the video with all three layers of telemetry. I only used one. I wish someone whould take the time to put together a comprehensive video of the video recording settings all the way to exporting. I have had to favorite this video in order to repeat the process. BTW: If you run with traction control on you will cook your rear brakes and/or boil your fluid and you may find you have no brakes at the end of a straight.

I was asking about the BMW M Laptimer, I'm very familiar with RaceChrono. I posted my RaceChrono video in the post above.

Importing: My advice is to not import the whole video, it takes too long. Unless you want to compare other laps, just import the fastest lap.

Syncing: I use a OBDII adapter to capture speed and RPM, and I find that syncing to RPM is the easiest since I can hear it in the video and see the RPM graph. Super fast. I can usually do it in under a minute.

Here is my step-by-step:

Import GoPro footage into my desktop.
Find the fastest lap (I usually have the Catalyst or RaceChrono in view of my helmet cam so I just compare lap times)
Use Quicktime to trim the very large 4K GoPro footage down to that one lap
Import that .mov file into my iPhone
Move that video into RaceChrono album
Open RaceChrono and then open your session.
Click the "Video" button
Import the video
Use the RPM method I described above to sync
Click "Export" in the menu
Under "Scope" select "Laps"
Select the fastest track as the "Start Lap"
Select the next lap as the "End Lap"
Select my Video Overlay Setting
Select "Very High Quality" especially if you are recording in 4k
Add to queue
Start
When it's done you still have to copy the video to your photo album