Few questions regarding tracking your car

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

It's that aluminum foil tape with the peel off backing that HVAC guys use. You can find it at home depot, etc. Only need a little to get the job done. Some guys use gorilla tape, duct tape, or racers tape. I figured the aluminum tape looks sort of like the aluminum wheel and is rated for high heat.

Ha! My track wheels are the Apex EC-7 in black! Oh well, no care because track wheels! Or I'll look for something in black.

[mcvaughan]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

I did an autocross this weekend and discovered a wheel weight on the garage floor after returning home. This was the second time. What kind of tape do you use and where is it available?

Try this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by mcvaughan

Try this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ordered!

[tchiers]

Originally Posted by ano0oj

wow, thank you for all of your replies! learned a lot quickly, will definitely go the route most recommended with pads/fluids. Keep chiming in with any other recommendations that may come across your mind - I hope to post about my first track day sometime!

I'll add to the chorus. The car is fine as delivered for beginners, and I'd recommend against the CCBs. Take the $8K you were planning to spend on that and use it to upgrade the nut behind the wheel.

I'd also recommend you do your first weekend at MSRH or TWS (if you get the car before the latter closes) rather than COTA. They're closer to us, less expensive, and easier on the brakes. I'm very comfortable saying stock pads are fine for a beginner at TWS or MSRH.

Sign up with a group that takes the instructional aspect of HPDE seriously. I instruct with PCA and can therefore recommend them. Chin, The Drivers Edge, and TWS Performance Driving School also have good programs locally.

If you're really itching to spend the money (~$700), by all means go for a set of race brake pads (I also recommend the RS29). Definitely don't upgrade the tires yet.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by tchiers

I'll add to the chorus. The car is fine as delivered for beginners, and I'd recommend against the CCBs. Take the $8K you were planning to spend on that and use it to upgrade the nut behind the wheel.

I'd also recommend you do your first weekend at MSRH or TWS (if you get the car before the latter closes) rather than COTA. They're closer to us, less expensive, and easier on the brakes. I'm very comfortable saying stock pads are fine for a beginner at TWS or MSRH.

Sorry, gotta disagree with you on OEM brake pads recommendation. Agree on other points.

Neither TWS nor MSR have been friendly to OEM BMW pads even in the old days when I ran E36M3 on those tracks with Hawk Blues. F8x chassis is +300 lbs heavier, and will overheat stock pads in a hurry.

2x for novices running with DSC or MDM ON, which they will. That will overheat and fade rear pads in a hurry!

Originally Posted by tchiers

Sign up with a group that takes the instructional aspect of HPDE seriously. I instruct with PCA and can therefore recommend them. Chin, The Drivers Edge, and TWS Performance Driving School also have good programs locally.

If you're really itching to spend the money (~$700), by all means go for a set of race brake pads (I also recommend the RS29). Definitely don't upgrade the tires yet.

+1 on RS29's, or similar track pads.
+ fresh brake fluid (SRF, Motul600, OEM - doesn't matter, as long as it was changed within 6 months).

Everything else is optional.

a

[tchiers]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Sorry, gotta disagree with you on OEM brake pads recommendation. Agree on other points.

Neither TWS nor MSR have been friendly to OEM BMW pads even in the old days when I ran E36M3 on those tracks with Hawk Blues. F8x chassis is +300 lbs heavier, and will overheat stock pads in a hurry.

I realize I'm in the minority here, but I stand by my advice.

I started tracking at TWS in an E46 M3 convertible - even heavier than an F80 and high HP (for its time, still no slouch). Even with DSC on, stock brakes did fine until I was a solid intermediate student. If had been told that I would need brake pads that cost about 2 weekends worth of entry fees to begin with, I might never have started this hobby. (Man, I'd be so much more wealthy today )

There are people out there who might be willing to give the sport a try but aren't sure they're going to love it enough to spend big $$$ upfront. My advice to them is always that they don't need to. Get the car to safe, stock form, and bring it out to learn and have some fun. People do these events in rental lot specials, in fwd economy cars, etc. A bone stock M3 is plenty capable.

The vast majority of first time students are way too concerned about the car's capabilities and not nearly enough about their own. I also think many experienced people forget just how slow they were when they began - 2:20 to 2:30 a lap is pretty common at TWS in green group.

I will concede it's possible that a green student could cook the brakes, but it's not one of the things I generally worry about when I instruct a green student.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by tchiers

I realize I'm in the minority here, but I stand by my advice.

I started tracking at TWS in an E46 M3 convertible - even heavier than an F80 and high HP (for its time, still no slouch).

.................. Weight......Troque......0-60 time
E46 M3 conv: 3,649 lbs 269 lb-ft ... 5.5 secs
F80 M3 DCT.: 3,554 lbs 406 lb-ft ... 3.9 secs

E46 M3 was a decently fast car for its day, but cars have improved a LOT in the past 15 years!

Could OEM brakes be managed and made to last in beginner run group?
Absolutely! But it adds another variable for novice driver to worry about, instead of learning.

Originally Posted by tchiers

There are people out there who might be willing to give the sport a try but aren't sure they're going to love it enough to spend big $$$ upfront. My advice to them is always that they don't need to. Get the car to safe, stock form, and bring it out to learn and have some fun. People do these events in rental lot specials, in fwd economy cars, etc. A bone stock M3 is plenty capable.

Fair concern about turning novices off with up-front costs.
I agree that track pads are definitely not a requirement for the first (or second, or even 100th) DE.
They are a (very) nice to have.

I rode with a Skip Barber instructor in his bone stock Honda Accord, and he was passing (average driven) F8x M-cars. The brakes did fade after 3 laps, but he made that barge dance.

Therein lies the distinction: recommended, but not required.
Those who find the cost of track pads unjustifiable, are welcome to the DEs with stock pads. However, those who can justify investing in track pads should be given the information to make their own decision.

The OP was indicating willingness to order new M3 with CC brakes ($8K option), so track pads are a bargain basement alternative by comparison.


a

P.S.: A bigger challenge is helmet ownership. Luckily, most BMW CCA chapters provide (sweaty) loaners. But for organizations who don't have loaners, that's probably the single biggest obstacle to entry for the novices.

[jeffucd]

Originally Posted by ano0oj

Hey guys, long time BMW fan/owner here. Currently driving an X5 50i, but looking to add an M3 or M4 to the family within the next year or so. I have a few questions for you regarding tracking your car, something I've been wanting to do for a very long time.

When it comes time next year, I'll likely pull the trigger on a car with M Carbon Ceramic brakes, DCT and not much else. The additional cost of the Competition Package makes me want to just go with a full Dinan Signature package instead - any thoughts on this?

1. What mods are absolutely necessary for the track? This will be my futre wife's car so I want it to still be comfortable for her every day driving but also hold up on the track when I decide to take it there. Wheels, suspension, brakes, etc.

2. What are the typical costs that people overlook for track days? Can I expect to go through tires, track fees, etc.

3. If your track is 150-200 miles away, do you just drive there or take your M on a trailer?



And last - would love to meet up members for any track days next year!

Lots of great information here. Going to share with you what I wish I would have known before tracking my M.

1. My first priority is to preserve the longevity of the parts. That being said, it took a few years to get my skills up the point where I would put the kind of stress on the parts that required upgrades to protect them. My journey was from BMWCCA Car Control>Autocrosses>Track Days with instruction x2>many track days on my own, slowly ramping up. After my 3rd track day I added a tune(JB4), catless downpipes (ER), and tires (RE71r's). The first two didn't make me faster, I just felt I wanted it for the street. The tires were a big improvement from the Conti 5P's. After about my 6th track day I finally started noticing things wearing out disproportionately. First to go were the outside shoulders of the tires. Going to add cc plates now. My experience with the stock steel brakes have been great. Replaced one set of pads under the free BMW maintenance so far. I'm now going to coilovers, a flash tune instead of JB4, and intake. No plans on changing the brakes or fluids yet.

2. Track day costs: Registration: <$300, Hotel: $100ish, Gas: $150 for a decent road trip and getting 9mpg on the track, insurance: $350 for 50K in coverage and a 14K deductible in case you completely wreck it, $50 for food. So cost are about $1,000 for a track day away and $1,500 for a 2-day weekend trip (since insurance usually covers you for the entire weekend). In my experience driving 8/10ths my tires should last about 5-8 track days ($1,000 new), brake pads ($200/free if under standard service) about the same, and maybe another $100 extra just in case. So all in with hard and soft costs on the conservative side that's about $1,250 for a day or $2,000 on a weekend.

3. If trailering is an option, I would have leaned for a Miata instead. You can drive those things 10/10ths, have slicks/r-compounds, blow and engine and pay $400 for a junkyard pull and run an ethanol tune, replace the brake pads once a season, etc. With my quick and dirty math, it's about 1/5th the cost to track a Miata vs. the M. It's definitely more than 1/5th the fun! I didn't seriously consider this when I started getting into HPDE's, but my current situation doesn't allow for an extra car and trailer (and car to pull it) so that's out. Wish I would have given this more thought up front. You can get a fully built Miata for around $15K.

Probably more than what you were asking for, but thought OP might find it helpful.

[ano0oj]

Originally Posted by jeffucd

Lots of great information here. Going to share with you what I wish I would have known before tracking my M.

...

Probably more than what you were asking for, but thought OP might find it helpful.

Thanks for your feedback!

I think my route after reading everyone's .02 is to go fully stock my first weekend. May take some track pads just in case.

2. Thanks for really breaking down costs here. Didn't really know a good estimate for insurance costs but all other seemed to be near my estimates.

3. The only reason trailering is really an option is because it wouldn't be any extra inconvenience to me to do it. I'll have an SUV pretty much always in the family and storing the trailer is no issue. But I've realized this is a solution to a problem that is far away and if I become a track junkie

[ontherivet]

Originally Posted by ano0oj

I think my route after reading everyone's .02 is to go fully stock my first weekend. May take some track pads just in case.

+1

I just did my 1st HPDE at VIR this past weekend. Completely stock M3, although went to 36 psi cold on stock Contis. Not too much brake fade despite multiple hard braking from 120-130 to turn 1. I need an upgrade before the car needs it.

[Kung Fu English]

Originally Posted by ontherivet

+1

I just did my 1st HPDE at VIR this past weekend. Completely stock M3, although went to 36 psi cold on stock Contis. Not too much brake fade despite multiple hard braking from 120-130 to turn 1. I need an upgrade before the car needs it.

How much did you eat the pads? Mine have 70k life left. I have not done an HDPE in the M3 yet, only 1 ever actually I have done. Doing another weekend next month.

[redpriest]

Here's a pic of my front OEM pads after 2 sessions at Laguna Seca. They were practically brand new before hand.

I went through half a pad on my Endless ME20 pads on stock iron rotors and calipers in 5 sessions. Rather than lose the rest of the track day, I swapped to stock pads. Hilarious.

[ontherivet]

Originally Posted by Kung Fu English

How much did you eat the pads? Mine have 70k life left. I have not done an HDPE in the M3 yet, only 1 ever actually I have done. Doing another weekend next month.

Haven't looked but IDrive says 120k left on front & 90k on rears. I'm sure I don't believe it. Speaking of lyin' instrumentation, I had one 25 minute session where the fuel gauge went from over a third of a tank to nearly empty. I'll fill it up next time at 1/2.

[C-Mu]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

I did an autocross this weekend and discovered a wheel weight on the garage floor after returning home. This was the second time. What kind of tape do you use and where is it available?

I had the same problem. Use this stuff to cover the weights and you won't have an issue. Got is from Amazon for $7 or you can find something similar at any hardware store.

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by C-Mu

I had the same problem. Use this stuff to cover the weights and you won't have an issue. Got is from Amazon for $7 or you can find something similar at any hardware store.

My track wheels are black, so I ordered the tape from Amazon that was linked to in post #46. That was almost two months ago, but thanks!

[C-Mu]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

My track wheels are black, so I ordered the tape from Amazon that was linked to in post #46. That was almost two months ago, but thanks!

Sorry. I realized after I replied to your inquiry that I hadn't gone to page 3 of this thread. 😀