Too noisy in the cabin

[F80Ben]

Picked up my M3 last week and am starting to really notice a lot of body flex noise as well as rear interior noise over slightly bumpy roads. Specifically in the rear doors. Now, I understand there will be some noise. But this is loud like a 93 Toyota Tercel. I checked to see if any of the panels were possibly removed and put back together at customs, but nothing. I own some old RHD Japanese vehicles and they aren't this noisy.

Could this be because of the weight they shaved? Manufacture defect? Cloth/leather option allows for more movement within the panels and doors? No idea. Input.

[modkrazy]

Apparently there is a lot less sound-insulating material in this car. Probably part weight-savings, part attempt to retain sporting character.

[F80Ben]

Ah, because race car.

[acey81]

I don't have this, however there is plenty of road noise coming up through the tyres on bad tarmac. This is due the Michel Super Sports. They offer great performance, but comfort is compromised. I have no other rattles, squeaks, or similar. And I'm really sensitive about these things.

[bdoooh]

A lot of others are experiencing the same.

Rattles anyone? http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1009814

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by acey81

I don't have this, however there is plenty of road noise coming up through the tyres on bad tarmac. This is due the Michel Super Sports. They offer great performance, but comfort is compromised. I have no other rattles, squeaks, or similar. And I'm really sensitive about these things.

Comfort is not sacrificed w PSS... false... good luck finding a better rounded tire.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Comfort is not sacrificed w PSS... false... good luck finding a better rounded tire.

Agreed... they aren't the quietest tire but they are far from loud in my experience. This is more about sound proofing and the suspension being bolted directly to the frame. Having said that, I don't find my F82 to be notably louder than my E92.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Comfort is not sacrificed w PSS... false... good luck finding a better rounded tire.

Exactly. That's what is so amazing about the PSS; you get the best performance AND no sacrifice in comfort.

Is the exhaust/radio not loud enough to mask all the noise?

[Fanta]

Originally Posted by F80Ben

Ah, because race car.

Carrera S has not much noise.

[BhamDavid]

Originally Posted by gthal

Agreed... they aren't the quietest tire but they are far from loud in my experience. This is more about sound proofing and the suspension being bolted directly to the frame. Having said that, I don't find my F82 to be notably louder than my E92.

Agreed... I've used up a bruch of sets of various performance tires on my car. I firmly believe the PSS tires are the quietest and most comfortable while offering the best overall performance. My Pole Positions had slightly better turn in but that's the only thing ANY tire had over the PSS. But the PPs were the loudest tire I ever owned.

[JoeFromPA]

I literally want to smack a few of you upside the head because I've seen you involved in these threads:

These ARE NOT THE PSS tires you've been driving your granny around in.

They are different. Their carcass is different and their compound is different and we have very little idea of HOW they are different.

BMW/Michelin may have made a specific decision to adversely impact noise or comfort specifically to increase other aspects.

And we don't know.

So please stop saying "PSS aren't noisy" - these aren't your tirerack PSS we've all had experience on over the past ~5 years.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I literally want to smack a few of you upside the head because I've seen you involved in these threads:

These ARE NOT THE PSS tires you've been driving your granny around in.

They are different. Their carcass is different and their compound is different and we have very little idea of HOW they are different.

BMW/Michelin may have made a specific decision to adversely impact noise or comfort specifically to increase other aspects.

And we don't know.

So please stop saying "PSS aren't noisy" - these aren't your tirerack PSS we've all had experience on over the past ~5 years.

Noted.

But do we know that they're vastly different, at least in terms of performance and noise?

Also another poster just said in his F82 he doesn't notice an increase in noise so not sure what to gain from one poster saying he hears a lot of road noise and another says he doesn't. Then we have one saying it's the tires (sounded like it wasn't from experience) and everyone and their mother with PSS saying they aren't noisy (at least in every other iteration they've been made/used in).

My guess? It comes from your relative previous experience. If it was a 5 series, then yes this car will be louder, as will a 3 series. Less sound deadening insulation leads to more road noise. The way the suspension is bolted on also probably leads to a bit more than even the normal 3 series. Giving up a bit of noise for increased performance.

I dont think anyone has definitely pointed out that it's the tires just yet (although we haven't really ruled it out either but I'd lean towards these not being noticeably louder than 'normal' PSS)

[Tornrider]

Originally Posted by gthal

Agreed... they aren't the quietest tire but they are far from loud in my experience. This is more about sound proofing and the suspension being bolted directly to the frame. Having said that, I don't find my F82 to be notably louder than my E92.

This man has it right.

[JoeFromPA]

My point is that you can't say "PSS are quiet tires, it's not the PSS". We have no idea the level of changes done to them, but given that they went through ~450 sets of tires in development you can assume the changes were significant (also they are customized front and rear - they are no longer the same tire for the front and rear, not just in size, but in contact patch shape).

I've driven an M3 enough to feel comfortable that the road noise will not overtly bother me. I'm sure on some pavement though the lack of rubber in the rear subframe, etc. will create a noisy interior environment.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I literally want to smack a few of you upside the head because I've seen you involved in these threads:

These ARE NOT THE PSS tires you've been driving your granny around in.

They are different. Their carcass is different and their compound is different and we have very little idea of HOW they are different.

BMW/Michelin may have made a specific decision to adversely impact noise or comfort specifically to increase other aspects.

And we don't know.

So please stop saying "PSS aren't noisy" - these aren't your tirerack PSS we've all had experience on over the past ~5 years.

I'm sure there are SLIGHT changes from the regular PSS and maybe those changes have lead to more tire noise. However do I think the "special" version of the PSSs on the F8X is "significantly" different? NO.

We're not talking about a Formula 1 car here. I find it really hard to believe that BMW who is looking to save costs (ie no bespoke engine this time) would spend MILLIONS of dollars (as well as Michelin) on taking an already awesome street tire to make the "car have better feel" on a $70k car that most people would never notice. My RS5 has "special" Pirellis "made just for the RS5" too that are actually quite lackluster especially for how expensive they are. The regular "tirerack" PSSs run circles around the Pirellis that came with the car.

And let's say BMW+Michelin did incur significant R&D costs/time into developing a radically different tire (which they still chose to name PSS) they must not have optimized for tire noise or for traction off the line then.

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by F80Ben

Picked up my M3 last week and am starting to really notice a lot of body flex noise

Originally Posted by F80Ben

as well as rear interior noise over slightly bumpy roads. Specifically in the rear doors. Now, I understand there will be some noise. But this is loud like a 93 Toyota Tercel. I checked to see if any of the panels were possibly removed and put back together at customs, but nothing. I own some old RHD Japanese vehicles and they aren't this noisy.

Could this be because of the weight they shaved? Manufacture defect? Cloth/leather option allows for more movement within the panels and doors? No idea. Input.

I already answered this before but I'll repeat it in the hope people learn what this is. The body flex noise was incredibly evident on the E60 M5, especially at low speeds going up driveways etc. It is/was fixed by applying some Vinylex to the door seals once per month using a rag. Takes about three minutes. I'd bet if you do this the flex (or creaking) noises will disappear.

Rear noise current F8x owners can chime in. I'm thinking it is just following the M3 tradition of this as the last few generations have also had this, especially the E46 with that stiff rear suspension. Hopefully the noise is just an early build issue that will get ironed out over the next few weeks.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by trinim3

I'm sure there are SLIGHT changes from the regular PSS and maybe those changes have lead to more tire noise. However do I think the "special" version of the PSSs on the F8X is "significantly" different? NO.

We're not talking about a Formula 1 car here. I find it really hard to believe that BMW who is looking to save costs (ie no bespoke engine this time) would spend MILLIONS of dollars (as well as Michelin) on taking an already awesome street tire to make the "car have better feel" on a $70k car that most people would never notice. My RS5 has "special" Pirellis "made just for the RS5" too that are actually quite lackluster especially for how expensive they are. The regular "tirerack" PSSs run circles around the Pirellis that came with the car.

And let's say BMW+Michelin did incur significant R&D costs/time into developing a radically different tire (which they still chose to name PSS) they must not have optimized for tire noise or for traction off the line then.

You need to read the posts of the tire developer (on this forum) who talked about how extensively these types of tires are customized to the vehicle - and how the regular version is often significantly different.

I realize you've stated your opinion and I have nothing further to offer here for you. But here's what we have that's more than conjecture:

1. Michelin and BMW spent extensive time customizing the tire including changing the contact patch of the front and rear (which involves a very different carcass to achieve btw, and the carcass/contact patch shape is critical to road noise).

2. A tire developer on this forum shared his experience that the difference between a standard tire (i.e. regular, off the shelf) and manufacturer specified tire can be minimal or can be very significant including emergency handling differences (i.e. in one of his tests, the car would literally roll onto it's side with a regular tire in a very specific emergency manuever whereas it wound up maintaining contact at all four corners with a customized tire of the same manufacturer/type).

3. We know that many folks, myself included, have experience a brand new PSS vs. a well worn previous tire and sung the praises of the PSS, but that we are often biased by the fact that the outstanding PSS was replacing a worn out tire.

...

Again, cliff notes: We don't actually know the extent of the changes on these PSS as relates to noise. Maybe it's none, maybe it's minor, or maybe it's pretty significant. The fact that the contact patch was altered notably indicates that tire noise is going to be altered significantly, as a tires tread pattern and contact patch are huge determinants of tire noise - I doubt you can alter it significantly while keeping road noise profiles the same (I could be wrong).

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Carl L

[B]

I already answered this before but I'll repeat it in the hope people learn what this is. The body flex noise was incredibly evident on the E60 M5, especially at low speeds going up driveways etc. It is/was fixed by applying some Vinylex to the door seals once per month using a rag. Takes about three minutes. I'd bet if you do this the flex (or creaking) noises will disappear.

Rear noise current F8x owners can chime in. I'm thinking it is just following the M3 tradition of this as the last few generations have also had this, especially the E46 with that stiff rear suspension.

Yes, lubing the door seals is important even on brand new cars and it's a good habit to get into.

Other options if noise is present to try:

-if a door is making noise, wrap a bit of electrical tape around the lock bar mounted on the chassis to "tighten" the lock and see if it goes away.

- If the rear seats are making noise, open them and then shut them on a sock (or similar) to see if the noise goes away. If so, find a permanent solution using something similar but less noticeable

[dustman]

My '11 sedan had a lot of flex and noise, esp at the doors.
The new M is only 98lbs lighter, sedan to sedan comparison.
I do see bmws being made with less quality of materials over the last decade, disappointing.
M3 no different.
Least it has a cool engine!

[nickdrivesm3]

Who cares, go drive the car.

[Drizz]

OP - Have you tried opening the rear windows just a crack? Does the noise continue? Sometimes you'll hear what appears to be a creaking from the doors but it's actually due to the windows. If you crack the window and the creaking stops, you'll know it's the window. If that's the case you can bring it to your dealership service area and they'll apply a clear tape as well as clean the inside of the area where the window meets the door frame, which will fix that issue. If the creaking continues when the windows are down, it's another issue and others have already suggested fixes.

[rubber_ducky]

Originally Posted by trinim3

I'm sure there are SLIGHT changes from the regular PSS and maybe those changes have lead to more tire noise. However do I think the "special" version of the PSSs on the F8X is "significantly" different? NO.

We're not talking about a Formula 1 car here. I find it really hard to believe that BMW who is looking to save costs (ie no bespoke engine this time) would spend MILLIONS of dollars (as well as Michelin) on taking an already awesome street tire to make the "car have better feel" on a $70k car that most people would never notice. My RS5 has "special" Pirellis "made just for the RS5" too that are actually quite lackluster especially for how expensive they are. The regular "tirerack" PSSs run circles around the Pirellis that came with the car.

And let's say BMW+Michelin did incur significant R&D costs/time into developing a radically different tire (which they still chose to name PSS) they must not have optimized for tire noise or for traction off the line then.

I would agree with you. Manufacturers have been making "Porsche-specific" tires for years (N2 designation). It seems that nobody can tell the difference in ride quality. However... Porsche can deny certain warranty claims for not using a Porsche approved tire. Seems that BMW are going down the same road.

I can't help but wonder if there is some kickback agreement between the tire manufacturer and the car co.