Mo Reviews
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-11-2013, 08:07 PM   #67
Longboarder
Major General
Longboarder's Avatar
3371
Rep
6,763
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
I am glad that we are so good at time travel.

First it's pooping on a car no one has driven or tested.

Now it's dismissing the cars future tuning potential.

I am not claiming that tuning this car is going to be EASY or fast and speedy.

All I am saying is not just BMW, but in the tuning arena as a whole, it is always said how hard some next generation of ECU is going to be to crack. But it gets done.

Problems still with the M5/M6? Ok, does that mean it's always going to be this way?
Look, just go research the new ECU's that BMW is putting in this car. This is not some minor change like going to direct injection that people think is going to take years to crack and then someone figures it out in a few months.

It's not a simple evolutionary change like in times past...it's a revolutionary change.

Hopefully my good friends Terry and Shiv can figure it out. I know them well and just hung out with Terry a few weeks ago. He says he's getting the new M3/4. I wished him luck on the ECU crack. He's gonna need it this time.
__________________
Current BMWs: 2021 X5M, 2012 e92 M3, 2022 X5 40i, 2016 X5 50i
2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S
a couple others
IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:08 PM   #68
Alessandro
Major
Alessandro's Avatar
Serbia
109
Rep
1,043
Posts

Drives: Audi RS5
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2011 335is  [9.50]
On the spec sheet they are quoting 21,9 sec from 0-1000m for the M4 with DCT that's 21.85s @ –––.– Kph - Porsche 997 GT3 (Auto)territory!

Just a observation
__________________
19 Audi RS5
15 Audi S5 GIAC Stage 2 white
11 E92 335is DCT FBO 441 whp silver
08 E92 335i FBO 6MT 427 whp space grey
05 E46 M3 red
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:12 PM   #69
BuLoOoSki
Colonel
Kuwait
749
Rep
2,108
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kuwait

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Only time will tell.

But I hold to my 400-430whp estimate.

I watched my N20 put down crank+ numbers, I see it on my friends N54, I frankly am used to seeing it on any modern FI BMW engine.

Why would the S55 suddenly be different?

As for tuning cost...BMS seems to charge the same $350-500 whether it is an M product or not. Sure, not the only game in town, but even Cobb is usually $600-900. Exhausts, well those will run from moderate to crazy like is always the case. You can be the guy to spend $5k on a titanium exhaust or be the guy who gets it done for $1000.
I can't speak for the N20m but for the N54 I can tell you that they made 270-275rwhp on average and 280rwhp at the most in some cases. I know because I owned one and new many who did and been around since 2006 to see it. But I do hope that the M3 makes 430rwhp.
__________________
2015 BMW F80 M3: Tractive EDC Suspension / Dinan Anti-Roll Bars / GC Camber Plates / KMP Dual Diff Mount / Girodisc Rotors / GT4 Brake Cooling Kit / PTF Flash Tune / Eisenmann Downpipes / CSF Heat Exchanger / BMS Charge Pipes
2007 BMW E92 335i (SOLD): BMS JB4 / Quaife LSD / Riss Racing DPs / Helix Intercooler / BMS Intake / STETT Charge Pipe / Forge DVs

Last edited by BuLoOoSki; 12-11-2013 at 08:28 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:14 PM   #70
Longboarder
Major General
Longboarder's Avatar
3371
Rep
6,763
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki View Post
I was referring to both cars being stock, modding the cars is a different story. Like you said for the E9X M3 you need to add a supercharger system and a exhaust totaling to around $15,000 to make the kind of power you are referring to. And although I agree with you of how it's currently difficult to crack the new ECUs, but trust me it's only a matter of time till the tuners crack them. It was the same thing with the N54s, the initial MSD v80 ECU was easy to crack and like you said you were even able to tune it with resistors, then BMW came with MSD v81 which introduced the whole torque limiting and hidden codes crap, but still tuners found a way around it. Same with the N55 when it came out. What I'm trying to say is that BMW and other car manufacturers will always keep trying to make it difficult for tuners to hack into their ECU, but tuners will in return do their best to crack them to make a living. So putting that issue on a side I honestly see a lot of potential in terms of tuning for the new M3, even more potential than the current M3 just for the fact that later in the future it will be so easy and much more cost effective to do turbo upgrades or even simple bolt-ons.
Fair enough. And I agree with all your points.

All I'm saying is that the new ECUs will simply be that much harder than ever before to crack. And when they are cracked, the M3/4's turbos are already out of breath @ 18psi stock.
__________________
Current BMWs: 2021 X5M, 2012 e92 M3, 2022 X5 40i, 2016 X5 50i
2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S
a couple others
IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:15 PM   #71
brisance
Private
6
Rep
74
Posts

Drives: MY2011 AW FR E92 M3 M-DCT ZCP
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Asia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by starkindustries View Post
HP is not the selling point, its the massive increase in torque and lighter weight that will ultimately make our e92 M's feel like a horse and carriage ride.
Things may not be so cut and dry. That top mount intercooler may quickly become heat soaked in warm climates. I guess we'll just have to withhold judgment until tests results are in.
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:20 PM   #72
GregW / Oregon
Commander-In-Chief
2036
Rep
8,891
Posts

Drives: 2023 M2 Coupe, 2020 GLE 450
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lake Oswego, OR

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakeKemper View Post
...automatic blip downshifts? That ruins what is great about a manual transmission. STOP TRYING TO MAKE MANUALS EASIER TO DRIVE!!! That's not the point.
+1!
__________________

Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA
2023 M2 Coupe - Brooklyn Grey/Cognac/CF, 6MT; 2020 MB GLE 450
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:20 PM   #73
s!ke
Captain
United_States
41
Rep
802
Posts

Drives: e92 335 6MT
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Wait so they are both coming at the same time? Not the coupe a year later??
__________________


/// 2008 e92 335i 6sp JB/CR | COBB AP | AR DP's | AFE DCI | FMIC | BMS Cowl Filters | Stett CP | Forge DV's | Sig photo by jMeas!
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:22 PM   #74
BuLoOoSki
Colonel
Kuwait
749
Rep
2,108
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kuwait

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Fair enough. And I agree with all your points.

All I'm saying is that the new ECUs will simply be that much harder than ever before to crack. And when they are cracked, the M3/4's turbos are already out of breath @ 18psi stock.
Agreed, the turbos will definitely need to be swapped for those looking at making 500rwhp. I personally don't see myself tuning the M3 if I get it, the only thing I see myself doing is changing out the downpipes for some cat-less ones just for a better sounding exhaust.
__________________
2015 BMW F80 M3: Tractive EDC Suspension / Dinan Anti-Roll Bars / GC Camber Plates / KMP Dual Diff Mount / Girodisc Rotors / GT4 Brake Cooling Kit / PTF Flash Tune / Eisenmann Downpipes / CSF Heat Exchanger / BMS Charge Pipes
2007 BMW E92 335i (SOLD): BMS JB4 / Quaife LSD / Riss Racing DPs / Helix Intercooler / BMS Intake / STETT Charge Pipe / Forge DVs
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:24 PM   #75
GregW / Oregon
Commander-In-Chief
2036
Rep
8,891
Posts

Drives: 2023 M2 Coupe, 2020 GLE 450
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lake Oswego, OR

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
DCT vs. manual tranny weight

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
What is the weight difference between 6-M and DCT? I think "someone" could make that cal. given the power/weight ratios for the different trans.
If this has not already been posted, I ran the simple calc.

Manual M4 = 1,497 kg/317 kW = 4.72 kg/kW
DCT M4 = X/317 = 4.84 kg/kW
Solving for X, 4.84 x 317 = 1,534 kg

So, DCT is 37 kg or 81.6 lb heavier than manual tranny. Sounds about right.
__________________

Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA
2023 M2 Coupe - Brooklyn Grey/Cognac/CF, 6MT; 2020 MB GLE 450
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:25 PM   #76
Jamesons Viggen
Brigadier General
United_States
193
Rep
3,780
Posts

Drives: '98 M Roadster stg 2+ S/C
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rochester Hills MI

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Look, just go research the new ECU's that BMW is putting in this car. This is not some minor change like going to direct injection that people think is going to take years to crack and then someone figures it out in a few months.

It's not a simple evolutionary change like in times past...it's a revolutionary change.

Hopefully my good friends Terry and Shiv can figure it out. I know them well and just hung out with Terry a few weeks ago. He says he's getting the new M3/4. I wished him luck on the ECU crack. He's gonna need it this time.

I don't need to do research. I am not talking about easy or not, I am just not being bleak about the car's future tuning potential.

I have an NA engine that I bolted a supercharger onto which I love. I also have a factory FI engine in the other car.

The S65 with $15k bolt on blower is no where near the category of easy/bang for the buck power that an OEM FI setup like the S55 WILL offer...the time that takes not withstanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki View Post
I can't speak for the N20m but for the N54 I can tell you that they made 370-375rwhp on average and 380rwhp at the most in some cases. I know because I owned one and new many who did and been around since 2006 to see it. But I do hope that the M3 makes 430rwhp.
I assume you are talking tuned/bolt ons for 380whp for an N54? I just got my best friend dowpipes, intake, and Cobb tune for his and I am guestimating around there. But stock, I think it's more like 285-295whp.

My N20 put down 220whp/260tq stock on a load bearing dyno when the car was rated 240/258, meaning on a Dynojet it would have been closer to 235-240(InsideLine put it on a Dynojet and made the same or more as the ATS which claims 272hp).
__________________

'98 Dinan/RMS stage 2+(VAC cams, CES Cutring etc)
'15 Buick Regal "T"(wife)
'06 Saab 9-5 Combi 5mt (full suspension, LSD, clipped turbo etc)
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:30 PM   #77
BuLoOoSki
Colonel
Kuwait
749
Rep
2,108
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kuwait

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
I don't need to do research. I am not talking about easy or not, I am just not being bleak about the car's future tuning potential.

I have an NA engine that I bolted a supercharger onto which I love. I also have a factory FI engine in the other car.

The S65 with $15k bolt on blower is no where near the category of easy/bang for the buck power that an OEM FI setup like the S55 WILL offer...the time that takes not withstanding.


I assume you are talking tuned/bolt ons for 380whp for an N54? I just got my best friend dowpipes, intake, and Cobb tune for his and I am guestimating around there. But stock, I think it's more like 285-295whp.

My N20 put down 220whp/260tq stock on a load bearing dyno when the car was rated 240/258, meaning on a Dynojet it would have been closer to 235-240(InsideLine put it on a Dynojet and made the same or more as the ATS which claims 272hp).
Sorry my bad, it was a typo. I was referring to a stock N54 and I meant to say 270-275rwhp and not 370-375rwhp.
__________________
2015 BMW F80 M3: Tractive EDC Suspension / Dinan Anti-Roll Bars / GC Camber Plates / KMP Dual Diff Mount / Girodisc Rotors / GT4 Brake Cooling Kit / PTF Flash Tune / Eisenmann Downpipes / CSF Heat Exchanger / BMS Charge Pipes
2007 BMW E92 335i (SOLD): BMS JB4 / Quaife LSD / Riss Racing DPs / Helix Intercooler / BMS Intake / STETT Charge Pipe / Forge DVs
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:30 PM   #78
Longboarder
Major General
Longboarder's Avatar
3371
Rep
6,763
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
I don't need to do research.
I'm out.
__________________
Current BMWs: 2021 X5M, 2012 e92 M3, 2022 X5 40i, 2016 X5 50i
2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S
a couple others
IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:32 PM   #79
Jamesons Viggen
Brigadier General
United_States
193
Rep
3,780
Posts

Drives: '98 M Roadster stg 2+ S/C
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rochester Hills MI

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
I'm out.
To do research?
__________________

'98 Dinan/RMS stage 2+(VAC cams, CES Cutring etc)
'15 Buick Regal "T"(wife)
'06 Saab 9-5 Combi 5mt (full suspension, LSD, clipped turbo etc)
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:36 PM   #80
Wolfinwolfsclothing
Banned
37
Rep
1,312
Posts

Drives: E92 ///M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: B-roads

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro View Post
On the spec sheet they are quoting 21,9 sec from 0-1000m for the M4 with DCT that's 21.85s @ –––.– Kph - Porsche 997 GT3 (Auto)territory!

Just a observation
Except that the 997 GT3 is closing in on 10 years old. And surely won't have the type of track times or top end and surely isn't the same calibre of car by any stretch.

This car is def pretty maxed out with 18 psi from the factory. Lets see if it has a top end. If the fact that is a massaged n54 is any indication, it will die out after 5500 rpm.
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:45 PM   #81
AlteredBe4st
First Pride
AlteredBe4st's Avatar
110
Rep
1,557
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut..

iTrader: (8)

M4
__________________
Modded M4
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 08:57 PM   #82
elitex
.
elitex's Avatar
United_States
1230
Rep
1,918
Posts

Drives: 22 M8C Coupe, 21 X5MC
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing View Post
Except that the 997 GT3 is closing in on 10 years old. And surely won't have the type of track times or top end and surely isn't the same calibre of car by any stretch.

This car is def pretty maxed out with 18 psi from the factory. Lets see if it has a top end. If the fact that is a massaged n54 is any indication, it will die out after 5500 rpm.
I think it's a little more than just a massaged N54. Look at the difference between N63 and S63. I've owned both and they feel completely different. M5 doesn't run out of breath like my 550I did.
__________________
Previous
21 X5M MBB, 20 Evora GT, 20 C63S Coupe,19 X5 50i, 18 Giulia QV, 18 M5, 17 Evora 400, 18 LX570, 17 GT350,18 M4 Comp,17 R8 V10 ,17 M3 Comp,17 GT350,16 Escalade Plat ESV, 16 570S,16 911 GTS,15 M5, 15 LX570, 13 M5,13 Viper,14 Cayman S,13 M3,13 S4,10 RX8,12 A4,10 G37, 04 Mini Cooper S, 08 Scion TC, 06 Altima V6, 05 Altima, 01 Altima, 00 Altima, 94 Explorer, 92 Toyota Pickup, 98 Altima
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 09:04 PM   #83
leletyM3
HPF Stg2 640rwhp
11
Rep
295
Posts

Drives: HPF M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

I think I ll start to save for the M4!! Will sell the M5 and keep my E46 M3!!!
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 09:08 PM   #84
Gastoys
First Lieutenant
15
Rep
342
Posts

Drives: 2013 BWM 335i M Sport sapphire
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Greater Seattle Area

iTrader: (0)

425hp? Only 10 more than current M3, yes over a 100 lb ft of torque, I get it and that is awesome, but was expecting higher hp.

The AMG 2.0l 4 cylinder is cranking out 355hp, why cannot BMW get 460hp out of a 3.0.

I am wondering how the M3 will compete with higher hp German cars like MB C63 AMG and Audi's RS.

I am also wondering if the M3 will be worth the $30k premium over a 335i.

I love the exterior and the interior especially the leather stitching on dash, just that 90hp/70lb ft torque over a ppk equipped 335i makes me question the M3.
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 09:20 PM   #85
Mako
(Sold) '00 M Roadster '06 M Coupe '16 M3 '20 X3MC
1545
Rep
2,585
Posts

Drives: '23 M3 comp
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago suburbs

iTrader: (0)

M4 is 50 pounds lighter than M3, but the 435i is 55 pounds HEAVIER than the 335i? why would BMW do that?

so the M4 got 100 pounds more cut off than the M3, very strange.

maybe I read the specs on the F30/32 wrong?


M versions should be about $15K more than the non M versions with the same options. Of course lots of options on the 335i are included in the M3 base or part of more expensive packages. My build would probably come in around $80K (so $20K more than my current 335i xdrive M Sport, but would add some things like better leather, more tech options...).

I care the most about actual performance numbers, not horsepower or torque numbers, I am sure the new C63 AMG will have crazy torque again and probably hit 0-60 in 3.7 (without performance package, 3.5 with it) but this new M3/4 may be in that range for magazine tests.
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 09:50 PM   #86
Adem1534
Colonel
Adem1534's Avatar
United_States
2241
Rep
2,370
Posts

Drives: '16 M2
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Alex from the United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by greycrx87 View Post
Very impressive, but for 5 hp increase I'm keeping my for sure better sounding e92
Can't laugh harder at these people using the LAST thing they can (the sound) to justify their e9x ownership. WOW. Seriously, you're still bringing up sound difference? Get over it. The ///M4 rips your car apart.
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 09:57 PM   #87
left123
Second Lieutenant
left123's Avatar
56
Rep
281
Posts

Drives: TiAg 330i 6MT ZSP
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: 757

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
Can't laugh harder at these people using the LAST thing they can (the sound) to justify their e9x ownership. WOW. Seriously, you're still bringing up sound difference? Get over it. The ///M4 rips your car apart.
Well, unfortunately, after just watching the newest videos posted here (the ones of the m3/m4 individually on the track), the sound of each car on this official video is really very lackluster. Almost appliance-esque. I love the straight 6 and am glad they went back to it, but this sounds like crap to me. I know the aftermarket can fix it (most likely) but we shouldn't have to go to it for a reasonable sound.

The sound of a car is one of the more emotional components of it. Don't downplay this. The v8 e9x M3 definitely has it acoustically. The rest will be decided later, but its not always about pure speed, at least 95% of the time.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2013, 10:01 PM   #88
flagger
Private First Class
United_States
18
Rep
150
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: West Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Those that can not keep their right foot out of the throttle are going to be buying rear tires a lot. This car will probably spin it tires as much as a Merc C63 with the torque it is producing. Merc can't seem to get their rear wheels hooked up easily. Hopefully the chassis engineers at BMW have solved that problem with the new M's.

Also, fuel tank capacity appears to have gone down to 15.8 gal. I'm glad to see the mpg figure go up, but I was hoping for a slightly larger tank than the E92, perhaps 17 - 17.5 gal.

Overall, should be a stunning car to drive and look forward to their arrival.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2014 bmw m3, 2014 bmw m3 horsepower, 2014 bmw m3 specs, 2014 bmw m4 horsepower, 2014 bmw m4 specs, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 engine, 2014 m3 forum, 2014 m3 horsepower, 2014 m3 hp, 2014 m3 specs, 2014 m3 weight, 2014 m4 engine, 2014 m4 horsepower, 2014 m4 hp, 2014 m4 specs, 2014 m4 weight, 2015 bmw m3, 2015 bmw m3 specs, 2015 bmw m4, 2015 bmw m4 specs, 2015 m3, 2015 m3 engine, 2015 m3 specs, 2015 m4, 2015 m4 engine, 2015 m4 hp, 2015 m4 specs, 2015 m4 weight, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 s55, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f82 m4 s55, bmw f82 m4 video, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m3 forum, bmw m3 forums, bmw m3 s55, bmw m3 s55 engine, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 forums, bmw m4 horsepower, bmw m4 hp, bmw m4 redline, bmw m4 rev limit, bmw m4 rev limiter, bmw m4 weight, f80 m3, f82 m4

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:51 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST