Ground Control camber plates

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

Silly question, can you retain EDC with these?

Yes

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

The car tram lines a little with the MPSC2. 265/305.

Maybe need a better alignment. I have the 3 bolt design.

The F8X are in dire need of a good alignment. The factory alignment tolerance are pretty wide and the cars seem to come off the assembly line with a fair bit of scatter. A good alignment shop that will set the alignment (almost) exactly to nominal (not just within the tolerances) will make a huge difference on how the car handles and feels.

[slavearm]

The dealers are supposed to give the F8x an alignment when they take it into inventory as part of the intake process. They come installed with blocks between the suspension and frame to raise the car a bit so they don't scrape when coming off the platform. When they remove them, it can screw the alignment. At least they did when I got mine (one of the earlier deliveries).

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by slavearm

The dealers are supposed to give the F8x an alignment when they take it into inventory as part of the intake process. They come installed with blocks between the suspension and frame to raise the car a bit so they don't scrape when coming off the platform. When they remove them, it can screw the alignment. At least they did when I got mine (one of the earlier deliveries).

I seriously doubt dealers go through the trouble of putting the cars on an alignment rig before delivery.

Further, I don't see how the shipping blocks can upset the alignment.

[slavearm]

Because you have to remove a bunch of suspension pieces to get them off and then put them back on.

[SD ///M4]

How do the GC camber plates compare to the TC Kline camber plates other than the TC Kline camber plates are about $75 cheaper.? Trying to decide between the two. What are the pros/cons of each?

What's the range of camber adjustment? There's basically no information on either manufacturer's websites.

Other questions:

What's the level of difficulty for installation? I've installed aftermarket springs and shocks on several Japanese cars in the past (74 Celica, 88 Prelude, 96 Integra GSR, 20-40 years ago!) but nothing on a BMW, and I've never done a camber plate install before. Did you install yourself or have them installed? If so, how much for installation?

Is a spring compressor required? If so, how much tension is there?

I'm also considering the Dinan High Performance Adjustable Coil-Over Suspension System. Any reason why either of these wouldn't be compatible with this kit?

My tire/wheel combo will be the Apex EC-7 18x10 ET25 F, 18x11 ET44 R, with Nitto NT01 275/35 F, 305/35 R.

I know that CanAutM3 runs the same tire/wheel combo with the GC plates, so I'm pretty confident that will work!

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

How do the GC camber plates compare to the TC Kline camber plates other than the TC Kline camber plates are about $75 cheaper.? Trying to decide between the two. What are the pros/cons of each?

adjustment: GC plates have a continuous range of adjustment, TC Kline have fixed adjustment points, roughly 0.5deg apart.
spring perch: GC plates use a proprietary perch, and perch bearing that gets gritty quickly, affecting steering feel, the TC Kline plates use the OEM perch/bearing

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

What's the range of camber adjustment? There's basically no information on either manufacturer's websites.

both products can be adjusted farther than you'll ever need (in excess of 2.5 additional negative camber)

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

Other questions:

What's the level of difficulty for installation? I've installed aftermarket springs and shocks on several Japanese cars in the past (74 Celica, 88 Prelude, 96 Integra GSR, 20-40 years ago!) but nothing on a BMW, and I've never done a camber plate install before. Did you install yourself or have them installed? If so, how much for installation?

Is a spring compressor required? If so, how much tension is there?

It's not difficult, yes you need a spring compressor. I've done it and had it done, much prefer DIY these days, is about 2 hours of work, including jacking and cleanup. On the M3, it could be even faster, if you don't have to pull the strut out of the upright (which I do on my M235i).

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

I'm also considering the Dinan High Performance Adjustable Coil-Over Suspension System. Any reason why either of these wouldn't be compatible with this kit?

Coilovers usually have their own top-mounts because they have smaller, articulated spring perches. If you're going coilover, get plates designed for/with them.

Finally: consider waiting for Vorshlag's plates. They have bigger, more robust spherical bearings up top, and their perch bearing is a heavy-duty sealed job, both solutions are better than anyone else's offerings for this car.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by rwalker

adjustment: GC plates have a continuous range of adjustment, TC Kline have fixed adjustment points, roughly 0.5deg apart.
spring perch: GC plates use a proprietary perch, and perch bearing that gets gritty quickly, affecting steering feel, the TC Kline plates use the OEM perch/bearing

Interesting. You've had this experience? What do you consider "quickly"?

I have had these on my car for over 6 months now, and do not have that happening. I had these on my E92 M3 for almost 4 years, before I traded it, and had no bearing, noise issues or anything remotely like steering feel changes.

Conversely, I had bearing issues on my E90 330i Vorschlag plates, and I had lots of noise (presumably bearings) on my E82 135i Vorschlag plates.

So, I'm finding the exact opposite of what you are saying from my personal experience on multiple cars on either setup.

I do not have any experience with the TCK plates though I have installed them on a handful of friend's cars. I just dont like the limited camber settings and looked elsewhere. I think TC makes a quality product and have their SA coilovers on my other car.

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by larryn

Interesting. You've had this experience? What do you consider "quickly"?

Yes, I've had this experience. I spent about a year on multiple sets of GC plates for this platform. I changed out the perch bearing twice, as a consequence of other swaps during development. I had approximately 9 months, maybe 6k miles on the last set of bearings used and they were extremely gritty, hard to move by hand. Find my post-mortem in the 2-series section. The change back to the OEM perch/bearing yielded an absolute revelation in steering feel.

Originally Posted by larryn

I have had these on my car for over 6 months now, and do not have that happening. I had these on my E92 M3 for almost 4 years, before I traded it, and had no bearing, noise issues or anything remotely like steering feel changes.

To be fair, I didn't notice the issue until I swapped 'em out. The degradation in feel is apparently gradual. It's possible that your environment is less dusty than mine. I should have post-scripted my comments with "YMMV".

Originally Posted by larryn

Conversely, I had bearing issues on my E90 330i Vorschlag plates, and I had lots of noise (presumably bearings) on my E82 135i Vorschlag plates.

So, I'm finding the exact opposite of what you are saying from my personal experience on multiple cars on either setup.

The F-series platform is special, maybe that's why we're seeing departure from expectations. It's good to get your datapoint about issues with Vorshlag on the E8x/E9x, as I have a friend shopping for plates right now.

For this platform: I've only been running Vorshlag for a few thousand miles. It's possible that their perch bearings will also crud up over time, but my intuition is that it'll happen more slowly than on the GC plates. The reason I think so is that the GC stack can be separated by hand and by jacking (perch can come off bearing, and bearing top and bottom can separate), and the GC perch forms a bowl into which dirt and grit can gather. The Vorshlag perch is press-fit onto a one-piece bearing.

Originally Posted by larryn

I do not have any experience with the TCK plates though I have installed them on a handful of friend's cars. I just dont like the limited camber settings and looked elsewhere. I think TC makes a quality product and have their SA coilovers on my other car.

I tried the TCK plates. The strut shoulder hit the top bearing carrier when adjusted to my preferred setting, resulting in the most serious metal on metal clunking I've had among any plate I've tried. The "fix" was a spool with the same problem. HP Autowerkes was pretty awesome, though: they accepted the return.

[wakdady]

I have the GC camber plates and have my own comments on them. I do like them for their adjustability. they feel great on track. streetability? not so much. they clunk when i get a decent bump or crack in the road and i dislike that. the nuts that are supplied with it for the triangular aluminum brace are worthless and you can't fit a washer under them or they won't thread enough for the nylock to catch.

I've double checked everything on the car and the install is nice and tight. i believe it's the removal of the oem bearing that is causing the clunk but i'm not 100% sure. so I'm willing to try a different brand at this point. either the TC kline or the Vorschlag. whichever one allows for at least -3 and doesn't clunk

[zackf80m]

Is it normal for these plates to shift completely after a track day? The camber was way off after I did homestead a few weeks ago.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by zackf80m

Is it normal for these plates to shift completely after a track day? The camber was way off after I did homestead a few weeks ago.

No. Definitely not. Mine only shifted when the threads stripped, and I had the stripped thread part replaced and used longer screws.

[zackf80m]

Originally Posted by larryn

No. Definitely not. Mine only shifted when the threads stripped, and I had the stripped thread part replaced and used longer screws.

Which screws did you use? I hate the screws that come with these... my piece in the right is stripped I believe. Was it expensive to replace?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by wakdady

I have the GC camber plates and have my own comments on them. I do like them for their adjustability. they feel great on track. streetability? not so much. they clunk when i get a decent bump or crack in the road and i dislike that. the nuts that are supplied with it for the triangular aluminum brace are worthless and you can't fit a washer under them or they won't thread enough for the nylock to catch.

I've double checked everything on the car and the install is nice and tight. i believe it's the removal of the oem bearing that is causing the clunk but i'm not 100% sure. so I'm willing to try a different brand at this point. either the TC kline or the Vorschlag. whichever one allows for at least -3 and doesn't clunk

Bad installation in this picture. No washers should be used on the retaining plate.

[wakdady]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Bad installation in this picture. No washers should be used on the retaining plate.

there aren't any washers in the retaining plate. you talking about those 4 camber controlling ones? that's just design of the bolts. unless i'm totally off base. anyone else have picks of their install?

[larryn]

Originally Posted by zackf80m

Which screws did you use? I hate the screws that come with these... my piece in the right is stripped I believe. Was it expensive to replace?

Send them the pictures and give a follow-up call. Maybe they'll do something for you.

Those two inboard screws can be longer and will catch the entire tapped hole - those holes are open-bottom. My outboard screws only caught 2-3 threads, with the screws supplied. I bought slightly longer screws and used those on my replacement (non-stripped) piece.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by wakdady

there aren't any washers in the retaining plate. you talking about those 4 camber controlling ones? that's just design of the bolts. unless i'm totally off base. anyone else have picks of their install?

Mine is like that as well. There are no washers on any of the 4 camber adjusting screws, but that knurled-to-smooth screw head makes it look like there might have been a washer.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by wakdady

there aren't any washers in the retaining plate. you talking about those 4 camber controlling ones? that's just design of the bolts. unless i'm totally off base. anyone else have picks of their install?

My bad. Looking on my phone's small screen, it really seemed like there were washers. Now seeing it on my computer, it is clear there are none. Sorry about that...

[wakdady]

Originally Posted by larryn

Mine is like that as well. There are no washers on any of the 4 camber adjusting screws, but that knurled-to-smooth screw head makes it look like there might have been a washer.

do you get any new clunk from your suspension after installing these?

[larryn]

Originally Posted by wakdady

do you get any new clunk from your suspension after installing these?

I've read of people having added noise. I do not. I did tighten things down well and used a little lithium grease on the end links.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by wakdady

do you get any new clunk from your suspension after installing these?

I definitely get more NVH, but still quite liveable.

[wakdady]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

My bad. Looking on my phone's small screen, it really seemed like there were washers. Now seeing it on my computer, it is clear there are none. Sorry about that...

It's all good, thanks for the feedback, it's not like they came with instructions so other peoples experience is sometimes the best instructions.

[zackf80m]

Originally Posted by wakdady

It's all good, thanks for the feedback, it's not like they came with instructions so other peoples experience is sometimes the best instructions.

Anyone have pics of their GC camber plates on stock amounts of camber perchance?