Main Dealer Body Paint not up to "Scratch"

[SY8]

Hi guys

Looking for some advice and suggestions please.

I was due to collect a 2018 M4 Comp today from a main dealer.

When I got to the dealers and insepected the car closely, I noticed swirl marks/light scratch marks all over the car when in the sunlight. It looked like the way the car had been washed/dried and caused the scratch marks all over the car from what I could see when the direct sunlight hit the bodywork (car was parked in the showroom and sunlight coming in through the windows).

I showed the "handover specialist" and she immediately agreed with me and called a manager.

Initially the manager tried to state that its a "used car" (car is 1 year old, less than 4,000 miles) and that "all used cars" would have some light scratch marks.

The car does not just have a few light scratch marks but over all the car from what I can see when the direct sunlight hits the bodywork. Initially I suggested to the manager that it seems like the way they have cleaned and dried the car with the incorrect cleaning materials. However the manager stated that they clean all their cars in the same way.

After further discussions, we concluded that it was likely due to the fact that the car had previously been cleaned via a cash wash machine which the bristles have caused all the light scratch marks.

I told the manager I was not satisfied with the car and refuse to accept the car like that.

He then suggested that the only thing he could do is to ask his team to "machine polish" the car entirely and he claimed this would resolve the problem.

I had driven nearly 3 hours to pick up the car and I told the manager I was very disappointed that I had driven all that way and the car was not an acceptable condition from a main dealer.

Would you mind to advise if you guys know if a machine polish would resolve this issue and be acceptable? Would a machine polish take away some of the paintwork and have any warranty issues?

If this was caused by numerous machine car washes from a prevouos owner, should the main dealers have checked the paintwork properly before taking the car in (its quite obviously in the sunlight).

Also just to top things off, the car was supposed to have been fully prepped for me to pick up today and had tyre valve caps missing and also when I inspected the inside of the car, there was a piece of rubber/plastic just chucked behind the drivers seat which the manager checked and transpired to be the cover along the runner on the drivers seat!

Thanks very much in advance for the advice and suggestions guys

[omega2733]

It's not the dealer's responsibility to know your expectations of a used car. That's why we inspect used cars before we buy them. A dealer will accept pretty much any used car to sell at a reasonable price point for it's condition.

Almost any used car will have swirls, people don't care for taking the best care of their paint job like an enthusiast would, you have a very different level of expectation than their typical customer. This expectation should be clearly explained and then inspected by yourself when possible, what you think is hideous most people wouldn't even notice exists (including the dealership staff).

If a car is swirled, yes a good detailer with a machine can paint correct it without much issue. No it will not cause warranty issues, no it will not hurt your paint if it's someone reputable.

[SY8]

Originally Posted by omega2733

It's not the dealer's responsibility to know your expectations of a used car. That's why we inspect used cars before we buy them. A dealer will accept pretty much any used car to sell at a reasonable price point for it's condition.

Almost any used car will have swirls, people don't care for taking the best care of their paint job like an enthusiast would, you have a very different level of expectation than their typical customer. This expectation should be clearly explained and then inspected by yourself when possible, what you think is hideous most people wouldn't even notice exists (including the dealership staff).

If a car is swirled, yes a good detailer with a machine can paint correct it without much issue. No it will not cause warranty issues, no it will not hurt your paint if it's someone reputable.

Originally Posted by omega2733

It's not the dealer's responsibility to know your expectations of a used car. That's why we inspect used cars before we buy them. A dealer will accept pretty much any used car to sell at a reasonable price point for it's condition.

Almost any used car will have swirls, people don't care for taking the best care of their paint job like an enthusiast would, you have a very different level of expectation than their typical customer. This expectation should be clearly explained and then inspected by yourself when possible, what you think is hideous most people wouldn't even notice exists (including the dealership staff).

If a car is swirled, yes a good detailer with a machine can paint correct it without much issue. No it will not cause warranty issues, no it will not hurt your paint if it's someone reputable.

Hi Omega

Thanks for your reply, which I assume from the basis of your reply is with yourself being a dealer?

I'm not sure if you have understood the contents of my post, as this is nothing to do with being an "enthusiast" or a higher "expectation". The car had complete swirl scratch marks (like huge cobwebs) all over where visable in the sunlight. This is not what anyone should "expect" from a 1 year old car from a main dealership. I woild not even expect that level and extensiveness of swirl scratch marks on a 5 year old normal used car that I was paying X amount for let alone a 1 year old car from a main dealership paying X amount for.

I think you may have needed to see the extent of these marks on the paintwork before suggesting it was to do with an "enthusiasts" expections. I wouldn't think any sane person would expect to accept a car in that condition for a 1 year old car paying X amount for.

The car was also suppose to be fully prepped for collection today and to have tyre valve caps missing, the plastic cover for the front seat runner ripped off and just chucked behind the drivers seat leads me to wonder even if a pre collection check was carried out.

Maybe your "expectation" of a 1 year old car from a main dealer is much lower as if you was prepared to take collection of the car with the whole paintwork covered in swirl cob web like scratches which are clearly very visable in the sunlight then that must be a very low expectation and/or acceptance.

Thanks for your comments regarding the machine polish and warranty

[Banksie]

Some people have different standards! I’m with the OP on this! When my cars go to the dealers for work the workshop manager is taken to the car and shown round it. He is then told that given the standard the car is I expect it to be treat by them to this standard. I’m not rude about it just very clear.

As the regards the valve caps I’m also with the OP, why would you check the tyre pressures and not replace the valve caps, unless of course you hadn’t checked the pressures! What else haven’t you done?

I’d be going home leaving them with the clear expectation of how I want the car prepared or wouldn’t be buying it. I’d also be expecting my petrol for a round trip to be paid.

We live in a world where people couldn’t give a sh*t and then get offended when told! Well I’m past caring on whether they get offended! Rant over!

[omega2733]

Lol at you thinking I'm a dealer, that's a joke right?

My point is, nobody gives a shit about the car you're going to buy except yourself. Unfortunately the matter of the fact is the dealership doesn't care, if they were able to sell you the car they're happy - there's no real incentive for them to make sure it's 100% right. Honestly they have more incentive to make more money on a car that isn't worth it and usually try to sneak things by (not that it's OK to do so).

Did I ever say they were in the right etc? Nope what I said that it's important to have the car inspected because nobody is going to care about your standards as much as you do. Before you get offended, please understand what the other party is trying to say before you jump down their throat making assumptions.

FYI I am a hobbyist detailer who also gets paid to do it professionally for people as well. I've never detailed a vehicle for a non-enthusiast. The general expectation of the public is "does it start and drive" - "oh wait my CEL has been on for 15k miles and not running right?" They don't even notice major problems, let alone swirls marks in paint, sadly most people these days just don't care and have different expectations.

[SY8]

Thanks for your replies guys and apologies Omega if I slightly misinterpreted your comments.

What would your guys suggestions be moving forward? Specifically state to the dealers exactly what I would expect to resolve the issue I.e. professionally detailed with the correct process, materials (I.e. clay, wax etc) with proof of this or to walk away from this car? My concern would also be due to the extent of the paintwork scratches, has this also affected the carbon roof?

Would you also get BMW UK involved in this?

Thanks in advance

[SteveChester]

Can you supply any pictures of the paintwork? I guess it's unreasonable to expect a glass like fully detailed paintwork on a used car but likewise if it's really badly marked and swirled to that extent they should have got it to a "reasonable" standard.

[iamwingman]

Originally Posted by SY8

Thanks for your replies guys and apologies Omega if I slightly misinterpreted your comments.

What would your guys suggestions be moving forward? Specifically state to the dealers exactly what I would expect to resolve the issue I.e. professionally detailed with the correct process, materials (I.e. clay, wax etc) with proof of this or to walk away from this car? My concern would also be due to the extent of the paintwork scratches, has this also affected the carbon roof?

Would you also get BMW UK involved in this?

Thanks in advance

Sounds like new car taste on a used car budget.

[SY8]

Originally Posted by SteveChester

Can you supply any pictures of the paintwork? I guess it's unreasonable to expect a glass like fully detailed paintwork on a used car but likewise if it's really badly marked and swirled to that extent they should have got it to a "reasonable" standard.

Unfortunately no pictures as I was too busy speaking to the sales manager regarding this.

It's not minor, in the sunlight you can see a complete cob web like scratches all over the bonnet and onto the front bumper. I'm pretty sure if the sunlight hit the rest of the car (was parked in the showroom and only the bonnet in direct sunlight and part of the boot lid (which had the same cob web like scratches and some deeper) then the rest of the car may also be the same in the sunlight

[SteveChester]

Ask them for £750 off then and take it to a decent detailers for a paint correction.

If it gets done in house they might just use some filler heavy polish to hide away the swirls.....

[SY8]

Originally Posted by iamwingman

Sounds like new car taste on a used car budget.

Not at all, normal customer expectation of a 1 year old approved used BMW from a main dealer. If the car had a couple of small stone chips etc that would be reasonable for a 1 year old car not complete cobweb style scratches covering large parts of the paintwork clearly visible in the sunlight

I'm sure if you inspected the car, you would have had the same thought

[iamwingman]

Originally Posted by SY8

Not at all, normal customer expectation of a 1 year old approved used BMW from a main dealer. If the car had a couple of small stone chips etc that would be reasonable for a 1 year old car not complete cobweb style scratches covering large parts of the paintwork clearly visible in the sunlight

I'm sure if you inspected the car, you would have had the same thought

It’s a used car. End of story. If it’s not in the condition you want, don’t buy it. It’s not rocket science.

[White340]

If you really want it then ask the dealer to pay for a full exterior detail in your area from a reputable detailer.

[M4_CaptFlashheart]

I picked up a brand new m4 CP last year. It had been a dealer show model so had spent time in a dealership on display and had probably been cleaned by the in-house cleaning boy a few times.
When I went to pick the car up it was standing in sunlight and looked like a scourer had been run over it. I had the manager look it over and he agreed it shouldn't be like that. I accepted the car on the basis it would be sorted out within a week. They had the car back promising me it would be machine polished and ceramic coated as a good will gesture. I dropped car off with them and got a very nice M6 to replace it for a couple days.

Went to pick car up and the paint was definitely better, but there was wax everywhere, not ceramic coating. Needless to say I was little pissed but decided that I'd have the usual guy I use sort it out properly after the winter. Well, the car was cleaned and detailed properly and ceramic coated a couple weeks ago and it looks absolutely mint now. Better than when I first bought it.

You can pay anywhere from £300-£1000+ for a proper detail. Mine was 1.5 days in the shop getting inside and outside done with windows, arches, wheels etc all done. £400, Can't recommend him enough.

You're better off trying to get a couple of quotes from the local detailers then approach dealer and ask if they'll pay for it done. At the end of the day, a used car is exactly that. used. Different people have different expectations but I know how you must feel.

[SY8]

Originally Posted by SteveChester

Can you supply any pictures of the paintwork? I guess it's unreasonable to expect a glass like fully detailed paintwork on a used car but likewise if it's really badly marked and swirled to that extent they should have got it to a "reasonable" standard.

My wife actually took a short video clip of it whilst I was talking to the sales manager and here is a couple of stills from it.

The extent of it is all over the bonnet in the sunlight and into the front bumper too. I would imagine over other parts of the paintwork on the car when in direct sunlight [IMG]undefined[/IMG]

If you enlarge the picture you will get an idea of the cobweb like scratches and this is all over the bonnet in the sunlight (and as above probably over other parts of the paintwork on the car which would be clearly visible in the sunlight)

[M4_CaptFlashheart]

those are easily removed by a machine polish and then get a decent ceramic coating like gtechnic. I have exo, c1 I think it is on mine.

Before and after pic for comparison

[icegrill]

Totally agree with omega, being super picky myself and in the process of buying a used m3. Dealers will lie or be vague about the car until you are literally face to face asking if they noticed the entire wheel had been curbed!?? "Huh I'm so sorry sir we can have that buffed out"

[M4_CaptFlashheart]

Just re-read your initial post. Sounds like a crap dealership. A decent one would have the car prepped ready for a customer to be able to say, yes please gimme gimme. The handover person failed in their duty. Trying to hand over a sub-par car, new or used, with only 4k miles it should be 'like new'.

tell them to do one and find one elsewhere, even if it means travelling for it. I'd also write to the dealer principal or whatever they call themselves now and state your issues so they can look at their own internal systems. I have had to do just this with a BMW dealer.

[omega2733]

It's hilarious to see keyboard warriors jumping all over me, I said one statement and it boils down to ANYTHING in life.

Never trust anyone to fully understand your expectations but yourself. Nobody else cares about your property, progress, vision as much as you, yes people are shitty and should have better standards. That's all I said - you guys expect a lot from people who want nothing more than to go to work, make money and go home.

Should they fix it? Absolutely, but one persons "opinion" of acceptable is totally different than another, especially when they don't care. The entire moral of my story was not to trust any dealer, let alone expect a car to be showroom perfect without telling them explicitly (even then they'll lie to you).

[Wills2]

One wash can introduce swirls into the paint, it's really easy to do, correcting them is easy if you know what you're doing and care about what you're doing and have the right kit.

The dealer will more than likely mop it and say there you go having introduced holograms and buffer trails into it just to add insult to injury.

If perfect paint is important to you on a used car then you'll have to get it detailed by a professional, there are plenty available who will sort it out, it probably just needs a 2 stage correction a medium cut and then a finish polish followed up by a layer of protection, although if the swirls are light they will just be able to do one pass as some of the compounds are pretty good at having cut and polish these days.

I recently went from a well looked after F80 M3 to a 7 series and the paint was shocking! Took 4 days to get it looking straight but it's always doable.