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      02-12-2016, 06:01 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j09333
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Originally Posted by AM4ZING View Post
A simple counter-steer would have made this a powerslide thread
Lets make powerslide thread
All kinds of power slides and corrections! Let's see them!





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      02-12-2016, 06:38 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
Good that you are using video to critique (but the following I question)

Are you sure that you were in FULL opposite lock as in turned the steering wheel around more than one rotation or did your hands just steer to 12 and 6? This is also why it's good to have a view where you can see your hands when driving on track if you are truly going to use it to analyze your skills. See my video below and see how much the steering wheel is moving.

Albeit different cars, this is an 80 mph fishtail I recovered (which was pretty violent since it involved in) taking 1 rear off in the dirt on the right side, then taking 2 or 3 off on the left side in the dirt, finally hitting a patch of asphalt, which let me get some grip back and carry on. It is totally doable.

impressive save.. especially because of the tires falling off the track / back on the track through an s turn..
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      02-12-2016, 07:10 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j09333 View Post
Lets make powerslide thread
This calls for the new "thinking" iphone emoji and i agree lol
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      02-12-2016, 08:09 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGames
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
Good that you are using video to critique (but the following I question)

Are you sure that you were in FULL opposite lock as in turned the steering wheel around more than one rotation or did your hands just steer to 12 and 6? This is also why it's good to have a view where you can see your hands when driving on track if you are truly going to use it to analyze your skills. See my video below and see how much the steering wheel is moving.

Albeit different cars, this is an 80 mph fishtail I recovered (which was pretty violent since it involved in) taking 1 rear off in the dirt on the right side, then taking 2 or 3 off on the left side in the dirt, finally hitting a patch of asphalt, which let me get some grip back and carry on. It is totally doable.

impressive save.. especially because of the tires falling off the track / back on the track through an s turn..
Art of Rally.
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      02-12-2016, 11:11 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
All kinds of power slides and corrections! Let's see them
Wow you sir have SKILL!!!
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      02-13-2016, 12:33 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j09333
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
All kinds of power slides and corrections! Let's see them
Wow you sir have SKILL!!!
You're good too! Wish I had f82. So much more power I think I would destroy tires so fast
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      02-13-2016, 07:09 AM   #51
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Thanks for sharing this video.
I'm sure in the moment it felt very serious and out of control, but that was a pretty safe spin to have on a track day, very slow and easy, not even a full 360.

Like others have said you just need some proper instruction. M school will teach you a lot. You could've caught that slide with some counter steering.

For future track days It's good to set up the camera to also see inside and get your hands. If you had that I'm sure you would've seen you didn't counter steer soon enough to catch the slide. Once you do the m school you'll see, to catch a slide you're hands need to be pretty quick.
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      02-13-2016, 03:34 PM   #52
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Car need more tire in the rear just saying. Stock tires limits the cars true potential.
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      02-13-2016, 04:14 PM   #53
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Thanks for sharing the video. You lost control of your car because you exceeded your skill and comfort level not because of MDM. Nothing wrong with that, because the easiest way to find the limit is to exceed it. As long as you pick your spots and do it in a safe manner, keep pushing your limits.
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      02-13-2016, 09:58 PM   #54
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I find Euro MDM very unpredictable, i have DSC off.

I get to feather the throttle myself, this car (M4) is like a 5.0 Mustang, you better stay off the throttle mid turn and do a lot of trail braking where with the E92 M3 you could get on the gas much sooner even mid turn.
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      02-13-2016, 10:00 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
There is a series of events that occurred that caused you to go off track but Euro-MDM is not the culprit . That was a very slow spin.

As you say, too aggressive throttle coming out of the corner while pinching the steering wheel caused an oversteer situation. This was still completely manageable though. The complete lack of counter steer is what made the situation worse and caused the car to go off track on the inside.

Note that all of this is due to driver error. Period. Euro-MDM simply has a little more leeway than US-MDM, but one still needs to do the proper driver inputs to keep the car on track. Depending on your comfort level, I would definitely recommend you keep driving with at least MDM to eventually move to DSC off so you can learn proper throttle management and steering input. With DSC, the car is managing the throttle for you. Continuing to track with full DSC will just get you into nasty habits that are difficult to get rid of later on.

There is no need to go in "Efficient" mode. Sport and Sport+ are perfectly fine for the track (Sport+ is my preferred track engine setting), you just need to learn throttle modulation and coordination. Think of an imaginary string that links the steering wheel and throttle pedal. If you cannot open up the steering wheel, you cannot add more throttle. You might also want to consider some skidpad training to get those counter steer reflexes honed

Keep tracking
As usual your answers tend to belittle others and stroke your own ego, you're the best driver, best engineer blah blah.
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      02-13-2016, 10:44 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V1.47fan View Post
As usual your answers tend to belittle others and stroke your own ego, you're the best driver, best engineer blah blah.
...and this post of your does what ?
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      02-14-2016, 12:15 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
An investment in schooling in skid control would be money well spent!That was a totally recoverable situation that could be corrected with some counter-steer and proper throttle control.Maybe this an intuitive reaction for us who have grown up in areas that have real winter!
No doubt - schooling definitely the best option. However - real winter is clearly the second-best option - I would never attempt controlled drifts on public roads - but every now and then on very cold roads in Chicago (well below freezing) - it is amazing how instinctual the counter-steer becomes after years of experience - 100% pure "muscle memory" ...
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      02-14-2016, 12:37 AM   #58
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To OP - glad you're ok!!! Man - I'm sure that was an incredibly scary moment - but given that you learned something without property damage or injury -
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      02-14-2016, 11:53 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V1.47fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
There is a series of events that occurred that caused you to go off track but Euro-MDM is not the culprit . That was a very slow spin.

As you say, too aggressive throttle coming out of the corner while pinching the steering wheel caused an oversteer situation. This was still completely manageable though. The complete lack of counter steer is what made the situation worse and caused the car to go off track on the inside.

Note that all of this is due to driver error. Period. Euro-MDM simply has a little more leeway than US-MDM, but one still needs to do the proper driver inputs to keep the car on track. Depending on your comfort level, I would definitely recommend you keep driving with at least MDM to eventually move to DSC off so you can learn proper throttle management and steering input. With DSC, the car is managing the throttle for you. Continuing to track with full DSC will just get you into nasty habits that are difficult to get rid of later on.

There is no need to go in "Efficient" mode. Sport and Sport+ are perfectly fine for the track (Sport+ is my preferred track engine setting), you just need to learn throttle modulation and coordination. Think of an imaginary string that links the steering wheel and throttle pedal. If you cannot open up the steering wheel, you cannot add more throttle. You might also want to consider some skidpad training to get those counter steer reflexes honed

Keep tracking
As usual your answers tend to belittle others and stroke your own ego, you're the best driver, best engineer blah blah.
It didn't sound belittling?
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      02-14-2016, 03:35 PM   #60
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OP, here is another save this time on a public road.
You can see what this driver is doing very well.
Had he reacted to the slide a little sooner, he would have avoided all the drama and probably wetting his pants a little bit.
Thats why i suggested to you in my previous post that while driving on the track, you need to anticipate these kind of situations and be ready for it at all times. You do need to have quick hands though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=MXSFXPtcrlE
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      02-14-2016, 04:37 PM   #61
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Finally got to watch both videos in detail.

Where are your hands OP? Your instructor said "two hands on the wheel" multiple times.
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      02-14-2016, 05:25 PM   #62
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We are getting some good snow here in Chicago today - went out to an empty parking lot - traction control full off and did some drifting baby!!!!
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      02-14-2016, 06:46 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundpilot View Post
Thats why i suggested to you in my previous post that while driving on the track, you need to anticipate these kind of situations and be ready for it at all times. You do need to have quick hands though.
Fully agree

That was exact point of the videos I posted. While it is very important to develop the skills to recover from a bad oversteer, it is even better to develop the skills to avoid it altogether .
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      02-14-2016, 08:39 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V1.47fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
There is a series of events that occurred that caused you to go off track but Euro-MDM is not the culprit . That was a very slow spin.

As you say, too aggressive throttle coming out of the corner while pinching the steering wheel caused an oversteer situation. This was still completely manageable though. The complete lack of counter steer is what made the situation worse and caused the car to go off track on the inside.

Note that all of this is due to driver error. Period. Euro-MDM simply has a little more leeway than US-MDM, but one still needs to do the proper driver inputs to keep the car on track. Depending on your comfort level, I would definitely recommend you keep driving with at least MDM to eventually move to DSC off so you can learn proper throttle management and steering input. With DSC, the car is managing the throttle for you. Continuing to track with full DSC will just get you into nasty habits that are difficult to get rid of later on.

There is no need to go in "Efficient" mode. Sport and Sport+ are perfectly fine for the track (Sport+ is my preferred track engine setting), you just need to learn throttle modulation and coordination. Think of an imaginary string that links the steering wheel and throttle pedal. If you cannot open up the steering wheel, you cannot add more throttle. You might also want to consider some skidpad training to get those counter steer reflexes honed

Keep tracking
As usual your answers tend to belittle others and stroke your own ego, you're the best driver, best engineer blah blah.
I think CanAutM3 means well.. he's very point blank and it can be a little abrasive but his posts are pretty darn informative and he seems like a far better driver than me. he's been wrong before and I've seen him admit to it. I defend him because he does offer a lot of info.. this thread he seems aggressive but if you read what the OP was saying... I think he was making stuff up a little.. not to intentionally deceive but probably just because he doesn't know any better (I'm referring to OP claiming to go full-countersteer when it sure appears he did not [during the slide]).

anyway, you're entitled to make your jabs, but wanted to give my perspective, and sorry, I know you didn't ask for my opinion but...

but again, yeah, he was a little mean, but I think OP may be in a little denial and I'm sure he is also able to take a little razzing.
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      02-14-2016, 08:48 PM   #65
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OP - another way I was able to get more comfortable taking DSC off was at autocrosses. some track rats scoff at autox, say it encourages bad habits, doesn't offer enough seat time, etc. i like them because they're cheap, low speeds and lower risk of destroying the car messing around with DSC levels, and some seat time is better than any. autox definitely teaches "fast hands" which you don't want when you're flying at 120 through a sweeper on the track (unless you need to correct a slide, then you need those fast hands for your CPR sequence of recovery). just recognize that the two arenas are different and use your head.

I'm far less experienced than a lot of these guys but try some autocrosses and some skid pad time and report back!
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      02-14-2016, 09:10 PM   #66
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I wonder what the aggressive internet know-it-all think what Walter Rohrl did wrong when he crashed.

Of course, they're all going to predent that they've never exceeded the limits and never spun out.

My advice to the op, careful with the half baked euro mdm, it's not as good as the e92's euro mdm.

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