Sunroof or not?

r0wr · 04-05-2020, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlejoEvo

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23109VC

I'm shopping for a used F80 M3. Most of the cars on the market have the carbon fiber roof - I see a small number that have a sunroof.

I understand that having a carbon fiber roof reduces weight and is considered a more sporty feature but I kind of like the idea of being able to open the sunroof sometimes when the weather is nice. I live in Southern CA.. it's a great place to have the sunroof open or even a convertible...

There might be a handful of times I'd like to put a roof rack on the car I know that is a little bit easier if you have the regular roof because the mounts are built into the rails whereas the carbon fiber roof you have to buy a special rack that would suction cup onto the car... that's not a huge factor but a small One I've considered ..

I'm curious how much extra performance or weight is actually saved by having a full carbon fiber roof and is it more of a cosmetic marketing thing or is it truly performance-enhancing???

Ultimately if I found the perfect car I'm not going to pass on it because of the sunroof situation but I'm curious if somehow I would be unwise to buy a car without the carbon fiber roof??

The thing to consider with the sunroof is not how much weight you add, but in where in this case. If you want to track your car, the sunroof will make a difference in handling due to positioning of the few added pounds. But I have a sunroof in mine and it corners as if no weight is over my head, so you can look for a sunroof, if that's what makes you happy.

I hope you find a good buy on these days!

I'm in SoCal and sunroof all day (and night).

Any amateur track rat who is getting the CF for anything other than aesthetics is lying to themselves. The increased weight isn't gonna be that significant. But to each their own.

henrylee · 04-05-2020, 10:16 PM

All my previous cars had sunroofs that never were used. The CF was a must for me! But if you like having one get it!

icegrill · 04-05-2020, 10:58 PM

cOnDiTionEr iS BEtTer

Alpine300zhp · 04-06-2020, 08:59 AM

I had both. M4 with sunroof and M3 with carbon fiber roof. To me, it doesn't matter. My days of using the sunroof have waned and now I almost never open it hence why I didn't miss the sunroof on the M3. One thing to remember, if you wish to use a roof rack on the car, you must have the sunroof to get the locking mechanism needed for roof racks. The carbon fiber roof does not have that mechanism.

mbanks21 · 04-06-2020, 09:20 AM

Get the sunroof and carbon fiber vinyl wrap the rest of it.

ApexM4CS · 04-06-2020, 09:26 AM

My mineral white 2015 M4 had a sunroof and my alpine white 2019 M4CS obviously doesn't. It's honestly up to you. I used the sunroof a few times but from the outside, the CF looks better. Now that I don't have it, I don't miss it.

SubzeroVR4 · 04-06-2020, 09:48 AM

I have carbon fiber roof. It was the one thing on my car I settled on while trying to find F80. It's also the only car I've purchased without one. The days I regret it are those nice days when it's slightly cool and you want to open the sunroof and I often look up and forget I don't have one. Only at the track the fan boys are like oh...carbon fiber.

Sassicaia · 04-07-2020, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHunk

It's 13lbs or 6kg weight savings with CF roof, you obliviously prefer sunroof so go for it.
Some guys prefer that CF roof, i have friend who always buy car with sunroof or panoramic, that's must have option for him, some guys here don't want M4/3 without CF, it all comes down to personal preferences.
At the end, your car has to make you happy, not others.

Wow. lol I didnt realize how small the weight savings actually was.

Basically 100% of the people who own one of these cars could probably stand to lose 13 lbs (myself included). With that in mind get the sunroof and hit the treadmill to get the best of both worlds.

ntg44 · 04-07-2020, 10:41 AM

In my opinion, if you like the sunroof, buy a car with it because you like/love the feature. Roof rack is also a good argument.

As for me, I ordered my M3 with CF roof for the following reasons:

- Looks. This is my first and most likely last M car, so I wanted the M specific feature. Weight had nothing to do with it, but it's beautiful, included in the base price, and I get compliments on it all the time. Not that it matters, since I bought it for myself, but it's an observation. And it's a nice touch given that my car is white, so it looks a little less vanilla.

- Head room. I'm 6 ft tall with a 30 inch inseam. My torso is ridiculously long. My previous S4 was available only with a sunroof, and my head would constantly graze the top of the liner. Drove me nuts, and forced me to sit more reclined than I like. It was a DSG, so I didn't mind as much, but moving back to a manual, I couldn't drive like that.

- Lack of usage. After owning my 350z and WRX, both with no sunroof, for 7 years, I got so used to the shade and cooler cabin temps that I ended up hating sunroofs entirely. I ended up just shutting the shade on the S4 after about 3 months and never really used it again.

The CF roof couldn't have been a more perfect match for me, but I'm sure those who appreciate the features the sunroof offers are just as passionate about keeping theirs. I say stick with your gut and wait for the right car with the features you want. Seems like either roof is a feature people regret later on for not getting the one they wanted the first time around.

CachacoF80 · 04-07-2020, 10:46 AM

After COVID19 more like 20lbs!

nicknaz · 04-07-2020, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntg44

- Head room. I'm 6 ft tall with a 30 inch inseam. My torso is ridiculously long. My previous S4 was available only with a sunroof, and my head would constantly graze the top of the liner. Drove me nuts, and forced me to sit more reclined than I like. It was a DSG, so I didn't mind as much, but moving back to a manual, I couldn't drive like that.

Huge consideration for me also. In my E90 328 and my wife's F30 335, I would hit my head on the roof whenever i had my helmet on at the track.

100% sure before I ordered that I was going CF roof for the extra clearance it gave me

As a bonus, CF roof and AW paint had a nice contrast, and I loved how it looked, together with F80 flared fenders.

Redacre · 04-07-2020, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23109VC

From the angle of the photo the wrap job on the roof almost matches the tent on your sunroof perfectly did you do something to the glass to make
It match the wrap job?

BTW - love your videos Tommy - I'm a subscriber!

I had the exact same approach as Tommy. My wrap guy applied a ceramic coating to the gloss black vinyl to get it to match the sunroof. As a bonus, it's the easiest part of the car to clean now

CanAutM3 · 04-07-2020, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHunk

It's 13lbs or 6kg weight savings with CF roof, you obliviously prefer sunroof so go for it.
Some guys prefer that CF roof, i have friend who always buy car with sunroof or panoramic, that's must have option for him, some guys here don't want M4/3 without CF, it all comes down to personal preferences.
At the end, your car has to make you happy, not others.

It's actually much more than that, the sunroof add 50lb/22kg compared to the CFRP roof. The 6kg weight saving you quote is the savings of CFRP over a standard (non-sunroof) steel roof. You need to factor the added weight of the glass sunroof and mechanism/motor too.

CanAutM3 · 04-07-2020, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassicaia

Wow. lol I didnt realize how small the weight savings actually was.

Basically 100% of the people who own one of these cars could probably stand to lose 13 lbs (myself included). With that in mind get the sunroof and hit the treadmill to get the best of both worlds.

See post above

Further, consider that those 50lb are at the top of the car which mean it has a greater impact on Cg height.

CanAutM3 · 04-07-2020, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0wr

Any amateur track rat who is getting the CF for anything other than aesthetics is lying to themselves. The increased weight isn't gonna be that significant. But to each their own.

That's relative...

What makes the F8X so great relative to its competition is its lower weight. It is the incremental weight saving of each individual element that eventually add up to the total weight. My M4 is is a dual use car, DD and track toy, so I'll gladly take that 50lb high up weight reduction as I don't really feel a need for a sunroof.

Like you said, to each their own, so don't discredit those that do appreciate the weight savings of the CF roof

E46M3forRay · 04-07-2020, 12:58 PM

The crease on the carbon roof gives it a nice touch.

All things considered carbon, they are nice to look at.

DocL · 04-07-2020, 01:11 PM

I personally like the sunroof. I'm not going to be setting any track records anytime soon. The CF definitely looks nice, but that's mainly all it does. On cool days I enjoy opening up all the windows and sunroof to enjoy the fresh air, and view of the sky. I don't like convertibles, so the sunroof is my one must have option. My M was a very hard car to find exactly how I wanted. 2018 YMB, Ccomp, 6spd, Sunroof. It took almost ten months o until one came up on this site a lease assumption. I am so glad I waited as I use the sunroof almost everyday and would have regretted not having one.

AlejoEvo · 04-07-2020, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassicaia

Wow. lol I didnt realize how small the weight savings actually was.

Basically 100% of the people who own one of these cars could probably stand to lose 13 lbs (myself included). With that in mind get the sunroof and hit the treadmill to get the best of both worlds.

See post above

Further, consider that those 50lb are at the top of the car which mean it has a greater impact on Cg height.

That was what I was talking about, 50 pounds/ 22.7kg in the roof is not good for cornering. I have an Evo with sunroof, and to track the car I installed C/O to correct the impact in handling.

SubzeroVR4 · 04-07-2020, 01:59 PM

Another thing to consider, I had a rock hit mine and chip the clear coat. I can't exactly use touch up paint.

dtmwerksm3 · 04-08-2020, 09:21 AM

Back in 15 when I picked my car up the CF roofs were on backorder, immediately got the roof wrapped black, looks great but wish I would have waited.

Some people like them, I never use the thing — CF all day.

DFW_M · 04-08-2020, 09:36 AM

I love both options, and if I were to buy the car again, I would go the same route:
- if the car is dark (BSM especially), the CF roof would be pretty much invisible and 10 lbs of weight savings is irrelevant. I have the BSM with the Sunroof and use it all the time (minus summer)
- If the car is lighter color, the cool factor of CF is probably worth sacrificing the Sunroof feature

Sassicaia · 04-08-2020, 09:55 AM

Does anyone have a measurable test on a track between an F8X with a sunroof vs CF roof?

04-05-2020, 10:16 PM	#24
henrylee Lieutenant 478 Rep 591 Posts Drives: 2018 F80 M3 6MT Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: SoCal OC iTrader: (3)	All my previous cars had sunroofs that never were used. The CF was a must for me! But if you like having one get it! __________________ 2018 F80 M3 6MT///Black Sapphire w/ Sakhir Orange Leather 2006 S2000 AP2 Laguna Blue Pearl 6MT
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04-05-2020, 10:58 PM	#25
icegrill Lieutenant Colonel 2078 Rep 1,780 Posts Drives: 2015 M3 Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Oregon iTrader: (3)	cOnDiTionEr iS BEtTer
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04-06-2020, 08:59 AM	#26
Alpine300zhp Lieutenant Colonel 1448 Rep 1,719 Posts Drives: 24 M4 Comp RWD Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	I had both. M4 with sunroof and M3 with carbon fiber roof. To me, it doesn't matter. My days of using the sunroof have waned and now I almost never open it hence why I didn't miss the sunroof on the M3. One thing to remember, if you wish to use a roof rack on the car, you must have the sunroof to get the locking mechanism needed for roof racks. The carbon fiber roof does not have that mechanism. __________________ ~ 24 M4 Comp ~ Prior BMW's - Too many to list here (27)
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04-06-2020, 09:20 AM	#27
mbanks21 Colonel 1268 Rep 2,957 Posts Drives: 2015 335i MSport Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: High Bridge, NJ iTrader: (8)	Get the sunroof and carbon fiber vinyl wrap the rest of it. __________________ 2015 335i Msport/6 JB4/EWG/E30/VRSF DP/ER CP/ VRSF Race Exhaust/ Injen Intake/Verde Axis 19x8.5/9.5 245/35/275/30 Conti Extreme CS/ H&R Sports / Motorsport Hardware Stud Conversion
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04-06-2020, 09:26 AM	#28
ApexM4CS ///M4 49 Rep 149 Posts Drives: '23 M3CX / '21 X7 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Apex, NC iTrader: (0)	It's up to you... My mineral white 2015 M4 had a sunroof and my alpine white 2019 M4CS obviously doesn't. It's honestly up to you. I used the sunroof a few times but from the outside, the CF looks better. Now that I don't have it, I don't miss it. __________________ Instagram: @Dracula.M3CX Current BMWs: '23 M3CX, '23 X7 Previous BMWs: '21 X7, '19 M4 CS, '20 X7, '15 M4, '18 X3, '17 X5, '17 X1, '06 325i, '02 M3, '03 330i ZCP
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04-06-2020, 09:48 AM	#29
SubzeroVR4 Second Lieutenant 70 Rep 276 Posts Drives: F80 M3/F85 X5M Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: California iTrader: (0)	I have carbon fiber roof. It was the one thing on my car I settled on while trying to find F80. It's also the only car I've purchased without one. The days I regret it are those nice days when it's slightly cool and you want to open the sunroof and I often look up and forget I don't have one. Only at the track the fan boys are like oh...carbon fiber. __________________ '16 BMW M3 '16 BMW X5M '23 X3 M40i (On Order) '21 Civic Type R
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04-07-2020, 10:41 AM	#31
ntg44 Colonel 2889 Rep 2,147 Posts Drives: R8 4.2 Spyder Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Chicago iTrader: (3)	In my opinion, if you like the sunroof, buy a car with it because you like/love the feature. Roof rack is also a good argument. As for me, I ordered my M3 with CF roof for the following reasons: - Looks. This is my first and most likely last M car, so I wanted the M specific feature. Weight had nothing to do with it, but it's beautiful, included in the base price, and I get compliments on it all the time. Not that it matters, since I bought it for myself, but it's an observation. And it's a nice touch given that my car is white, so it looks a little less vanilla. - Head room. I'm 6 ft tall with a 30 inch inseam. My torso is ridiculously long. My previous S4 was available only with a sunroof, and my head would constantly graze the top of the liner. Drove me nuts, and forced me to sit more reclined than I like. It was a DSG, so I didn't mind as much, but moving back to a manual, I couldn't drive like that. - Lack of usage. After owning my 350z and WRX, both with no sunroof, for 7 years, I got so used to the shade and cooler cabin temps that I ended up hating sunroofs entirely. I ended up just shutting the shade on the S4 after about 3 months and never really used it again. The CF roof couldn't have been a more perfect match for me, but I'm sure those who appreciate the features the sunroof offers are just as passionate about keeping theirs. I say stick with your gut and wait for the right car with the features you want. Seems like either roof is a feature people regret later on for not getting the one they wanted the first time around.
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04-07-2020, 10:46 AM	#32
CachacoF80 Captain 911 Rep 897 Posts Drives: San Marino Blue F80 - ZCP 6MT Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: SF Bay Area, CA iTrader: (0)	After COVID19 more like 20lbs!
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04-07-2020, 12:58 PM	#38
E46M3forRay Güdentyte 1156 Rep 1,195 Posts Drives: GT3 & 1M Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: SF Bay Area iTrader: (9) Garage List 2023 Model 3 [6.50] 2022 T4R TRD Pro [5.00] 2011 1M [6.67] 2014 991.1 GT3 [10.00]	The crease on the carbon roof gives it a nice touch. All things considered carbon, they are nice to look at. __________________ CURRENT - 991 GT3 \| Future Classic 1M \| Model 3 \| T4R TRD Pro Lime Rush SOLD - MB M2 CS \| SMB F80 M3 CS \| E90 M3 \| E90 335i \| E46 M3 Vert \| E39 M5 \| E34 525i
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04-07-2020, 01:11 PM	#39
DocL Captain 1930 Rep 869 Posts Drives: 2018 M3 Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Delray Beach iTrader: (2)	I personally like the sunroof. I'm not going to be setting any track records anytime soon. The CF definitely looks nice, but that's mainly all it does. On cool days I enjoy opening up all the windows and sunroof to enjoy the fresh air, and view of the sky. I don't like convertibles, so the sunroof is my one must have option. My M was a very hard car to find exactly how I wanted. 2018 YMB, Ccomp, 6spd, Sunroof. It took almost ten months o until one came up on this site a lease assumption. I am so glad I waited as I use the sunroof almost everyday and would have regretted not having one. __________________ 2018 F80 M3. YMB/BLK. ZCP. Three Pedals. "Education will never be as expensive as ignorance."
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04-07-2020, 01:59 PM	#41
SubzeroVR4 Second Lieutenant 70 Rep 276 Posts Drives: F80 M3/F85 X5M Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: California iTrader: (0)	Another thing to consider, I had a rock hit mine and chip the clear coat. I can't exactly use touch up paint. __________________ '16 BMW M3 '16 BMW X5M '23 X3 M40i (On Order) '21 Civic Type R
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04-08-2020, 09:21 AM	#42
dtmwerksm3 Lieutenant 80 Rep 555 Posts Drives: 15 M4 Mineral White/Shakir Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: San Diego, CA iTrader: (0)	Back in 15 when I picked my car up the CF roofs were on backorder, immediately got the roof wrapped black, looks great but wish I would have waited. Some people like them, I never use the thing — CF all day. __________________ 2015 BMW M4— Mineral White on Sakhir Orange/Black DCT 2012 BMW S1000RR — Racing Red/Alpine White - Sold 2009 BMW M3 Coupe — Alpine White on Fox Red, DCT - Sold 2003 BMW M3 — Carbon Black on Black, 6MT - Sold 1995 BMW M3 Coupe — Cosmos Black on Black - Sold
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04-08-2020, 09:36 AM	#43
DFW_M Major General 1671 Rep 6,586 Posts Drives: Macan GTS Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (4)	I love both options, and if I were to buy the car again, I would go the same route: - if the car is dark (BSM especially), the CF roof would be pretty much invisible and 10 lbs of weight savings is irrelevant. I have the BSM with the Sunroof and use it all the time (minus summer) - If the car is lighter color, the cool factor of CF is probably worth sacrificing the Sunroof feature
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04-08-2020, 09:55 AM	#44
Sassicaia Brigadier General 4453 Rep 3,308 Posts Drives: SMB F80 6MT Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Vancouver, Canada iTrader: (0)	Does anyone have a measurable test on a track between an F8X with a sunroof vs CF roof?
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