Free spinning oil drain plug.....replace the oil pan?

[M3ntal_F80]

So I went to change my oil today. Got it up on the lift and as I tried to remove the drain bolt, but it just kept spinning. Tried to put pressure on it to see if it would catch a thread and come out, but no luck. Fortunately it's not leaking any oil, but just trying to figure out my options. Since I was on my lunch break, didn't have a lot of time to mess around with it. If I'm able to get the bolt out and if the threads aren't messed up, I can just install my oil drain valve with a little locktite and be good. If they are bad, I could attempt to do a timecert as I've read this works very well.

Anyone come across this before and if so, how did you get the drain bolt out? I'm hoping to not have to remove the oil pan, but it looks like that's a possibility. At that point, I'd might as well just spend the money and get a new oil pan.

[M3ntal_F80]

Don't everyone jump in and reply now, lol.

I purchased a time sert kit and will attempt to remove the drain bolt. I've read a few posts and checked out some YouTube videos and seems most were able to remove the drain bolt by using vice grips. Hopefully I won't have much issues with this.

[Vintech]

I was in your position almost a year ago. Went to do an oil change only to have the drain plug spin and not come out. Luckily I was able to give it a zip with the impact to secure it temporarily.

Then started researching. I most likely I over torqued it the last oil change, and stripped the threads of the soft magnesium pan with a strong steel bolt.

Replacing the pan would make me feel the safest, but not sure the price and labor justify it. At that point I might as well do a pinned crank hub. Then I looked into repair options and found two successful repairs that people typically go, Time Sert or Heli Coil. A local shop does the Time Sert repairs on these pans and I had them to do it and finish the oil change.

utotools.com/blog/10-differences-between-time-sert-and-heli-coil-thread-repairs/

[M3ntal_F80]

I'm hoping I won't have any issues getting the plug out. I have a drain valve I'm planning on installing. I'm hoping the threads on the pan aren't stripped, but I'm sure they are, or will be once I get the plug out. If they are, I'll do the time sert myself. If I'm lucky and the threads are still good, I'll just use some threadlock as I don't plan on ever removing it.

[TopJimmy]

If you’ve stripped it out then a TimeSert might work but it’s important to get the right size (depth). The way a Sert works is it must be expanded with the “setting” tool so the threads grab the metal. If you use a Sert that is too long then it won’t hold itself in well.

If you mess up then you’ll need an oil pan.

[M3ntal_F80]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

If you’ve stripped it out then a TimeSert might work but it’s important to get the right size (depth). The way a Sert works is it must be expanded with the “setting” tool so the threads grab the metal. If you use a Sert that is too long then it won’t hold itself in well.

If you mess up then you’ll need an oil pan.

I'm well aware of this. I don't think the serts are too long, so not so worried about that. I'm more concerned about not being able to get the drain plug out. I've got a couple different oil drain valves I can use. One is an M12x1.5 thread and the other is tapered to where I would just force it in until it can't go in further. I'd rather not use the tapered one, but it's an option if needed.

I won't have time until Sunday to work on it. Fortunately there's no oil leaking, but definitely need to get this fixed as I'm due for an oil change.....keep me in your prayers, lol.

[gerri]

Lj_F80 read this:


https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732177

[M3ntal_F80]

Didn't need to use the time sert kit. Was able to get the drain plug out using some vice grips. There were some damaged threads at the opening, but was able to install my drain valve and torque it down to spec. No leaks so far. Will keep checking to be sure it's not slowly leaking.

[F87source]

OP if you need help with repairing the threads pm me and I can guide you through it step by step, I have helped alot of people with this exact issue (stripping the S55 aluminium sump) and every single person I guided through this process successfully repaired it. Also I wouldn't use a drain valve, it sticks down a bit and you don't want to risk hitting something on the road and shearing it off.

But my tip is to use a helicoil and not a timesert. The reason why is a helicoil takes out much less material (~0.3mm increase in diameter of the hole which is literally nothing) from the side wall vs. a timesert. And since the oil drain plug is a really thin walled hole, you need to save every mm you can in order retain structural rigidity. So a helicoil will give you the best chance for success.

Just make sure you seat the coil down flush or the washer will not sit flat and that'll cause a leak. This means when you thread in the coil, make it go 1 thread deeper.

[M3ntal_F80]

Originally Posted by F87source

OP if you need help with repairing the threads pm me and I can guide you through it step by step, I have helped alot of people with this exact issue (stripping the S55 aluminium sump) and every single person I guided through this process successfully repaired it. Also I wouldn't use a drain valve, it sticks down a bit and you don't want to risk hitting something on the road and shearing it off.

But my tip is to use a helicoil and not a timesert. The reason why is a helicoil takes out much less material (~0.3mm increase in diameter of the hole which is literally nothing) from the side wall vs. a timesert. And since the oil drain plug is a really thin walled hole, you need to save every mm you can in order retain structural rigidity. So a helicoil will give you the best chance for success.

Just make sure you seat the coil down flush or the washer will not sit flat and that'll cause a leak. This means when you thread in the coil, make it go 1 thread deeper.

I appreciate it, but I'm good to go. The drain valve does stick out a bit, but not low enough to cause any concern. If anything were to catch on it, that would mean a lot more got damaged before getting to the drain valve. It's been a few days and no leaks whatsoever. Very thankful that I didn't need to do any drilling or replacing the oil pan. Actually looking forward to my next oil change, lol. Will make getting the oil back in the jugs for the fcp return so much easier.

On a side note, I'm amazed at how little if any oil loss I had. After filling up the jugs, I had about 6 3/4 quarts......the 1/4 that was short was spilled on the shop floor, lol.

[kennethnmn]

Hey! I literally ran into the same issue! I really need help finding the kit to re thread it. Do you mind pasting the link of the kit you used for the repair. Please help! Lol

The only kit I can find is this one for $799 :/ which is insane since I will only use it one time.

https://agatools.com/products/aga-odp-12-14-k?variant=17069115211822&currency=USD&utm_medium=p roduct_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_orga nic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad=1&gclid=EAIaIQobC hMI-JPQ16bi_wIVxUZyCh1nPgHYEAQYBCABEgK00vD_BwE

[F87source]

Originally Posted by kennethnmn

Hey! I literally ran into the same issue! I really need help finding the kit to re thread it. Do you mind pasting the link of the kit you used for the repair. Please help! Lol

The only kit I can find is this one for $799 :/ which is insane since I will only use it one time.

https://agatools.com/products/aga-od...CABEgK00vD_BwE

Ok let me help you out, I'm also currently helping another individual repair his oil pan as well.

[kennethnmn]

Thank you so much seriously. I’m searching everywhere online for the helicoil but I don’t really know what to specially buy. That link would be super helpful! I found a time-sert link, However I saw you post stating it’s not the best solution for the material of the pan.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by kennethnmn

Thank you so much seriously. I’m searching everywhere online for the helicoil but I don’t really know what to specially buy. That link would be super helpful! I found a time-sert link, However I saw you post stating it’s not the best solution for the material of the pan.

I personally think you should avoid time serts, because they take too much metal from the hole - which already doesn't have very thick side walls. Also BMW themselves recommend thread repairs to be done with helicoils, and they never ever say to use timeserts. Air planes even use thread inserts to add threads to aluminum holes. So, I personally prefer thread inserts over timeserts.


You don't have to buy the brand name helicoils, generic thread inserts will work just as well. It is like buying generic tissues vs. kleenex, the tissues will works just as good whereas kleenex will cost more to do the same job (because imo you're paying more for the brand).

1) So thread repair tool (m12 x 1.5): https://www.amazon.ca/Repairing-Stai...%2C194&sr=1-12


2) M12 x 1.5 1D inserts - you need 1D because that is equal to the inserts being 1 diameter long (and that means it is 12 mm long in this case). The stock drain bolt is 17 mm long, so any longer than 12 mm and you risk having excess insert poking up into the oil pan.

https://www.amazon.ca/Helicoil-Threa...18&sr=8-5&th=1



3) Buy a new drain bolt. There is a chance your stock one is damaged after stripping the pan, so don't risk damaging the thread insert with a bad bolt. I recommend upgrading to a titanium magnetic drain bolt while you are at it: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1830240

[F87source]

Originally Posted by kennethnmn

Thank you so much seriously. I’m searching everywhere online for the helicoil but I don’t really know what to specially buy. That link would be super helpful! I found a time-sert link, However I saw you post stating it’s not the best solution for the material of the pan.

I'm also going to assume you've used helicoils/thread inserts before right? Because if you don't seat the coil properly then you won't be able to properly bottom out the drain bolt. You also need to drill and tap the hole properly, and flush out the pan carefully to remove all metal shavings.


I will probably just make a thread about how to repair a stripped thread at some point.

[Ryguy29]

If your attempting this retapping job yourself understand the professional shops have a vacuum that connects to top of valve cover to pull any filings while drilling , if you do yourself to save money may cost you more in the long run…

[mitch32]

I personally have used time serts, not on my f8x or any f8x mind you, but have used them on other oil pans. Their method is very good and will not induce burrs into your oil pan or if any it will be minimal (you have an oil filter and oil strainer for a reason, although the thought of a burr is frightening). Another tip with time sert is to pour oil in the engine with the drain plug out after you finish your work to flush out as much of the let over burrs as possible. I like the time sert method over the helicoil just because you can get it straight and the crush washer will seal better the straighter you are, if you screw up time sert even makes a tool to recut the sealing surface. I cannot speak to wall thicknesses as a previous poster posted.

[kennethnmn]

F87source I really want to say thank you! You literally are the greatest!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Ryguy29

If your attempting this retapping job yourself understand the professional shops have a vacuum that connects to top of valve cover to pull any filings while drilling , if you do yourself to save money may cost you more in the long run…

Wait what? How does that even work, if you have a vacuum that is connected to the top the valve cover you will be pulling the metal shavings through the oil pan, up through the crank case and timing chain area and the up to the valve cover. That is the worst idea I have ever heard of.


The better and more traditional idea is to:

1) Cover the drill bit and tap with heavy grease that will catch the majority of the metal shavings.

2) Flush the pan out with a crap ton of oil.

3) Do 2 consecutive oil changes right after one another.

This will clean up the pan essentially perfectly. If there is anything left it will be extremely small particles of aluminium likely the same size as what the engine already sees, and the oil filter will capture it.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by mitch32

I personally have used time serts, not on my f8x or any f8x mind you, but have used them on other oil pans. Their method is very good and will not induce burrs into your oil pan or if any it will be minimal (you have an oil filter and oil strainer for a reason, although the thought of a burr is frightening). Another tip with time sert is to pour oil in the engine with the drain plug out after you finish your work to flush out as much of the let over burrs as possible. I like the time sert method over the helicoil just because you can get it straight and the crush washer will seal better the straighter you are, if you screw up time sert even makes a tool to recut the sealing surface. I cannot speak to wall thicknesses as a previous poster posted.

With a helicoil repair method it is pretty hard not to drill it straight, once the drill bit is in the hole it guides itself. I have done a crap ton of helicoils now, and I haven't had a single case where the hole was not drilled out straight or the insert tapped straight. With a time sert you are risking side wall failure of the hole because you are taking out way too much material, and you are putting alot of stress on the wall installing and tapping in that giant insert.


I have also helped 10+ people now all around the world with this exact issue, and again no issues - every repair was a success (except one gentlemen who had a mechanic do it and they didn't insert the coil down far enough that it was flush, so the o ring didn't seat competely flush. Apparently they used a different O-ring and it still was leak free).

[F87source]

Originally Posted by kennethnmn

F87source I really want to say thank you! You literally are the greatest!

No problem, glad I could help!

[electricbrew]

I just helicoiled mine a few weeks ago. I agree that you don't need a vacuum or anything like that. I just used grease on the drill bit and went very slowly and cleaned out the drill bit often. The metal shavings want to walk down the drill bit, not up into the oil pan. My advice is that if there's any way that you can do this on a lift, it will be A LOT easier to keep the drill bit straight than doing it on your back with the car at an angle on jack stands. It's important to keep the drill very straight because otherwise your mating surface between the bolt and pan won't be completely flat. I'm not sure what the right torque for a helicoil would be, but for me it seemed like the stock 18nm was not enough. It was leaking enough to have a frequent drip. I slowly tightened it an umph more (not sure on the umph to nm conversion) and it still felt solid and the drip slowed significantly. I wasn't able to eliminate it fully, but that could be for a number of reasons. I didn't have a new drain bolt and didn't want to leave the oil out of my car for long enough to get one and I might have scored the mating surface while trying to get the old bolt out, which was seriously challenging in my case. I also used a crap copper washer and might have been better off using a rubber or other gasket. Anyway, the bolt is holding in the helicoil and i was viewing this as a temporary fix until I can get it to bmw for their permanent fix that fits the M14 bolt.