Free spinning oil drain plug.....replace the oil pan?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by electricbrew

I just helicoiled mine a few weeks ago. I agree that you don't need a vacuum or anything like that. I just used grease on the drill bit and went very slowly and cleaned out the drill bit often. The metal shavings want to walk down the drill bit, not up into the oil pan. My advice is that if there's any way that you can do this on a lift, it will be A LOT easier to keep the drill bit straight than doing it on your back with the car at an angle on jack stands. It's important to keep the drill very straight because otherwise your mating surface between the bolt and pan won't be completely flat. I'm not sure what the right torque for a helicoil would be, but for me it seemed like the stock 18nm was not enough. It was leaking enough to have a frequent drip. I slowly tightened it an umph more (not sure on the umph to nm conversion) and it still felt solid and the drip slowed significantly. I wasn't able to eliminate it fully, but that could be for a number of reasons. I didn't have a new drain bolt and didn't want to leave the oil out of my car for long enough to get one and I might have scored the mating surface while trying to get the old bolt out, which was seriously challenging in my case. I also used a crap copper washer and might have been better off using a rubber or other gasket. Anyway, the bolt is holding in the helicoil and i was viewing this as a temporary fix until I can get it to bmw for their permanent fix that fits the M14 bolt.

Ok first off there's a few things I noticed that I would like to address:

1) torque spec is 25 NM not 18nm.

2) you need to use a brand new copper crush washer. If you reuse an old one it won't be able to crush down any further and seal properly. You will also risk stripping the threads again if you keep sinching the bolt tighter to stop the leak. This is a major cause of stripped bolts in the first place - reusing washers or using crap washers.

3) you should replace the old bolt, the threads on that could be damaged from stripping the pan - unlikely because it's steel and much stronger than the aluminum pan. But it's possible.

4) a helicoil is technically a permanent fix, not a temporary one. Especially if you do it right.

I personally don't like the idea of tapping up to m14 because you'll be removing a lot of material from an already thin side wall. Also the side wall has a notch in it making it even weaker.

[gerri]

Originally Posted by electricbrew

I just helicoiled mine a few weeks ago. I agree that you don't need a vacuum or anything like that. I just used grease on the drill bit and went very slowly and cleaned out the drill bit often. The metal shavings want to walk down the drill bit, not up into the oil pan.

What size helicoil did you use and how did you remove the part in the picture without letting it fall in? Thank you!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by gerri

What size helicoil did you use and how did you remove the part in the picture without letting it fall in? Thank you!

You need to use an m12 helicoil, that'll let you use the stock drain bolt.


You can remove the tang via thin needle nose pliers.

[gerri]

Originally Posted by F87source

You need to use an m12 helicoil, that'll let you use the stock drain bolt.


You can remove the tang via thin needle nose pliers.

Sorry, the question was not well posed. I wanted to know what length of helicoil you used, 0.5D-1D or 1.5D because the longer it is, the less oil comes out of the cap during an oil change.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by gerri

Sorry, the question was not well posed. I wanted to know what length of helicoil you used, 0.5D-1D or 1.5D because the longer it is, the less oil comes out of the cap during an oil change.

1D no longer than this or else you will have excess coil sticking into the oil pan. The reason why is because the stock drain bolt is 17 mm, 1D = 12 mm, and you want the longest insert possible for maximum strength when the bolt is torqued down.

[Samf82m4]

Originally Posted by F87source

1D no longer than this or else you will have excess coil sticking into the oil pan. The reason why is because the stock drain bolt is 17 mm, 1D = 12 mm, and you want the longest insert possible for maximum strength when the bolt is torqued down.

Do you have a write up on this? Definitely interested in trying myself if I have the right guidance lol

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Samf82m4

Do you have a write up on this? Definitely interested in trying myself if I have the right guidance lol

I told another individual who pm'ed a whole back I would make one, but I've been extreme busy and haven't had the time to do it. So give me a few weeks and I should have one out before new years or the week of New Year's.


I'm planning on adding sections telling you what tools to buy (just the sizes so you can buy whatever brand you like, aka I'm not shilling to make a few dollars off of affiliate sales) and I'll be explaining what sizes to use.

The only issue is grease where I can only describe the consistency you need to get, but can't tell you the brand because I'm using some discontinued moto master grease only available in Canada. And that's what everyone always asks me for and I can't help with, so you'll have to go to your auto parts store and look around till you find one.

[savannahz]

Hey,

On the last oil change, when tightening by hand fairly lightly, the bolt went loose. I left it and haven't had any leaks. Fearing the worst on the next oil change I stumbled across this thread and many others.

While researching what I'm in for I decided to call my dealer and they stated BMW came out with a fix / kit since this has happened so many times. They are going to tap in a larger thread, that would require a slightly larger bolt, vacuum from the top just in case for shavings, and flush a few quarts of oil through for any possible missed shavings. The total would be $350 and take approximately 1.5 hours.

Can anyone speak on this fix they are proposing? Thanks

[F87source]

Originally Posted by savannahz

Hey,

On the last oil change, when tightening by hand fairly lightly, the bolt went loose. I left it and haven't had any leaks. Fearing the worst on the next oil change I stumbled across this thread and many others.

While researching what I'm in for I decided to call my dealer and they stated BMW came out with a fix / kit since this has happened so many times. They are going to tap in a larger thread, that would require a slightly larger bolt, vacuum from the top just in case for shavings, and flush a few quarts of oil through for any possible missed shavings. The total would be $350 and take approximately 1.5 hours.

Can anyone speak on this fix they are proposing? Thanks

I'd prefer a helicoil because it requires less material be bored out of the hole.

Also what does the dealer mean that'll vaccum it from the top? I've seen this done on Mercedes engines but it's not effective at all on bmw motors.

[savannahz]

Originally Posted by F87source

I'd prefer a helicoil because it requires less material be bored out of the hole.

Also what does the dealer mean that'll vaccum it from the top? I've seen this done on Mercedes engines but it's not effective at all on bmw motors.

I was going back and forth with the advisor who was getting answers from the mechanic. I had read someone else mention vacuuming from the top, but I'm not sure where from. I'm also not sure what type of tap they're using. I'll get those answers and report back.

To be honest, I was just happy BMW had acknowledged the issue and supplied a fix. I was thinking $3500 based off my reading.

Thanks

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by F87source

I personally don't like the idea of tapping up to m14 because you'll be removing a lot of material from an already thin side wall. Also the side wall has a notch in it making it even weaker.

To put an m12 helicoil you need to thread an m14 first.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Track/S

To put an m12 helicoil you need to thread an m14 first.

That's not quite accurate, helicoils use STI (Screw Thread Insert) threads to tap the original hole not standard metric threads - this means you'd tap an m12 x 1.5 STI thread, and the size isn't exactly m14 it can range based on the tolerance of your tools.

The max pitch depth of the sti threads can vary, IIRC helicoil says it can range from a min of ~13 - ~14.1mm. So the hole truly isn't 14 mm it is in the ~12.3 mm range (size of the drill bit helicoil generally supplies to drill out the stock threads, but technically the spec according to helicoil is 12.25mm), but the thread width can go as wide as 13-14mm depending on the tolerance of the sti tap.

This still retains more material than an upsized m14 bolt which requires you to bore the hole to
1/2" or 12.7mm (but this probably has a tolerance to it as well depending on your drill bit) and then tap it with an m14 standard tap (an m14 bolt can be 13,962 mm wide as it's max major diameter according to iso standards, so the tap is going to have to be a bit wider than that just to ensure fitment with even the widest of all m14 bolts), so the widest thread will still be a bit wider than the helicoil approach.



Personally I think the helicoil approach is better, because the initial boring takes alot less material which gives it the highest chance of success (not having the wall crumble or crack) - especially with how thin walled these oil pans drain holes are (so this is probably the biggest factor in play). This also plays into effect when you are tapping as well - the thicker the wall the stronger it is and less likely to crumble or crack. Then with a helicoil you can reuse the same drain plug and the same washer which is always nice.

[NORAGRETS]

Originally Posted by F87source

OP if you need help with repairing the threads pm me and I can guide you through it step by step, I have helped alot of people with this exact issue (stripping the S55 aluminium sump) and every single person I guided through this process successfully repaired it. Also I wouldn't use a drain valve, it sticks down a bit and you don't want to risk hitting something on the road and shearing it off.

But my tip is to use a helicoil and not a timesert. The reason why is a helicoil takes out much less material (~0.3mm increase in diameter of the hole which is literally nothing) from the side wall vs. a timesert. And since the oil drain plug is a really thin walled hole, you need to save every mm you can in order retain structural rigidity. So a helicoil will give you the best chance for success.

Just make sure you seat the coil down flush or the washer will not sit flat and that'll cause a leak. This means when you thread in the coil, make it go 1 thread deeper.

This seems to be a common issue...i experienced the threads getting mildly stripped during my last change while torquing to spec. luckily it was a easy fix w a HSS tap.

[trungnguyen28]

Had this same issue. I ended up using a time sert kit to repair. If anyone needs it, I'll be happy to sell for cheap since I only needed one. The time sert kit has been great for 10k+ miles.

[gerri]

Originally Posted by F87source

Because if you don't seat the coil properly then you won't be able to properly bottom out the drain bolt...


...tranne un gentiluomo che l'ha fatto fare da un meccanico e non ha inserito la bobina abbastanza in profondità da farlo era a filo, quindi l'o-ring non era perfettamente a filo...

Do you have a photo of the inserted Helicoil seen from the oil cap side to see how far it needs to be inserted to avoid leaks?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by gerri

Do you have a photo of the inserted Helicoil seen from the oil cap side to see how far it needs to be inserted to avoid leaks?

From the oil cap side? You mean from inside of the oil pan? If so, the answer is I unfortunately don't, I do not believe you can get anything from the oil fill cap to the oil pan because of all the stuff in the way (timing chain, timing chain guides, sprockets etc, then the extensive baffling and windage tray of the oil pan). So unless you remove the pan itself (or maybe remove the level sensor) you can't get images from the inside via a bore scope, and it's also why i question/wonder why some dealers claim they can suck the pan clean from the top.

Ok I'm terms of how deep you have to set the helicoil you can make it so it's flush, then go about 1/2 extra turns deep so it's a tiny bit recessed. Just a tiny bit is enough don't go too recessed. Then before you remove the tang from the helicoil you can put the copper drain washer against the hole and confirm it can sit flush. If it does then you're good. The sealing is mainly done by the head of the bolt crushing the copper washer against the oil pan, so I'd the washer can sit flush everything should be leak free.

[gerri]

Originally Posted by F87source

From the oil cap side? You mean from inside of the oil pan? If so, the answer is I unfortunately don't, I do not believe you can get anything from the oil fill cap to the oil pan because of all the stuff in the way (timing chain, timing chain guides, sprockets etc, then the extensive baffling and windage tray of the oil pan). So unless you remove the pan itself (or maybe remove the level sensor) you can't get images from the inside via a bore scope, and it's also why i question/wonder why some dealers claim they can suck the pan clean from the top.

Ok I'm terms of how deep you have to set the helicoil you can make it so it's flush, then go about 1/2 extra turns deep so it's a tiny bit recessed. Just a tiny bit is enough don't go too recessed. Then before you remove the tang from the helicoil you can put the copper drain washer against the hole and confirm it can sit flush. If it does then you're good. The sealing is mainly done by the head of the bolt crushing the copper washer against the oil pan, so I'd the washer can sit flush everything should be leak free.

I have the photo from the inside (oil pan removed), it is also published here in my post no. 24, I meant from the outside without the cap mounted to see how flush the Helicoil must be.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by gerri

I have the photo from the inside (oil pan removed), it is also published here in my post no. 24, I meant from the outside without the cap mounted to see how flush the Helicoil must be.

I see, ok so like I said before make the coil flush with the surface of the pan, then go in an extra half turn or so and check with the washer to see if it sits flush. I don't have any images from users because no one has bothered to send me any.

[mwpa71]

Curious..Do you get much shavings in oil filter afterwards?

[myzaq]

Originally Posted by F87source

OP if you need help with repairing the threads pm me and I can guide you through it step by step, I have helped alot of people with this exact issue (stripping the S55 aluminium sump) and every single person I guided through this process successfully repaired it. Also I wouldn't use a drain valve, it sticks down a bit and you don't want to risk hitting something on the road and shearing it off.

But my tip is to use a helicoil and not a timesert. The reason why is a helicoil takes out much less material (~0.3mm increase in diameter of the hole which is literally nothing) from the side wall vs. a timesert. And since the oil drain plug is a really thin walled hole, you need to save every mm you can in order retain structural rigidity. So a helicoil will give you the best chance for success.

Just make sure you seat the coil down flush or the washer will not sit flat and that'll cause a leak. This means when you thread in the coil, make it go 1 thread deeper.

Hey man any chance you could direct me to a write up on how to do this if one exists? Just stripped my pan last night, hoping to fix it asap. I already saw were you posted the parts & materials I need, and what you said about making sure its a half turn past flush. I just want to make sure I do the process right.
Thank you so much in advance

[F87source]

Originally Posted by myzaq

Hey man any chance you could direct me to a write up on how to do this if one exists? Just stripped my pan last night, hoping to fix it asap. I already saw were you posted the parts & materials I need, and what you said about making sure its a half turn past flush. I just want to make sure I do the process right.
Thank you so much in advance

Hey, unfortunately I haven't had time to write up the repair thread yet since I've been extremely busy. Not sure when I'll have time to do it, sorry.

[myzaq]

Originally Posted by F87source

Hey, unfortunately I haven't had time to write up the repair thread yet since I've been extremely busy. Not sure when I'll have time to do it, sorry.

Okay I completely understand thank you anyway! Any chance if you have a sec you could describe the type of grease I should use for the bit? I know you said the brand you use was discontinued. Is it a similar consistency to like regular red grease or?
If not i totally understand, thank you again for the advice you've already shared. Taken so much stress off my plate.