From 991 C2S to M4

[Maddict3]

Great write up! congrats on your M4.

It truly is awesome!

[solstice]

It will be interesting to see if the infatuation lasts. If it's similar to when a BMW owner leave for Audi, Benz or Lexus which hardly ever lasts more than one car since there is just too much missing of what attracts us to a BMW in the first place or if an M car truly does provide a sufficient experience compared to a 991 C2S.

Keep us updated now and then. Your former 991 looks fantastic btw.

[qwickm3]

Originally Posted by solstice

It will be interesting to see if the infatuation lasts. If it's similar to when a BMW owner leave for Audi, Benz or Lexus which hardly ever lasts more than one car since there is just too much missing of what attracts us to a BMW in the first place or if an M car truly does provide a sufficient experience compared to a 991 C2S.

Keep us updated now and then. Your former 991 looks fantastic btw.

Funny that you say this because this is what I experienced. I have always had M Cars but before I got my F80 M3 i was rolling a 2010 E63 AMG. Great car but just didn't do it for me. Back to an M Car a year later. Doesn't hurt that I have this to play with on the weekends though:

[visualguy]

Originally Posted by JPBesl

But for longer trips, and days out shopping or going to a museum, with both my wife and daughter in the car, the 911 was suboptimal. So most of the time we wound up taking our family car.

That is actually a reasonable solution... I find that the best solution is to own 3 vehicles: an SUV (for carrying bicycles, etc.), a sedan, and a sports car. This way, all bases are covered! They don't all need to be high-end.

[JPBesl]

Originally Posted by solstice

It will be interesting to see if the infatuation lasts. If it's similar to when a BMW owner leave for Audi, Benz or Lexus which hardly ever lasts more than one car since there is just too much missing of what attracts us to a BMW in the first place or if an M car truly does provide a sufficient experience compared to a 991 C2S.

Keep us updated now and then. Your former 991 looks fantastic btw.

Thank you.

These are all amazing cars in their own way. Keep in mind, I'm not leaving Porsche for BMW - I'm coming back to BMW... and I've done it before from a Cayman to an M3.

I guess I'm a serial monogamist when it comes to cars, and I just might be back in a P-Car in a few years time. Part of the fun is actually learning how to adapt to each car and figure out how to exploit their best features.

I would love to be in a position where I could have my completely uncompromising "fun" car and a more practical sport sedan, in addition to the workhorse. But one of them would have to live outside, and I can't stand to see that!

Yeah, I know... I should get a new house or rent some garage space But as long as I'm lucky enough to be able to, I'll just continue to commit myself to one great car at a time.

Maybe a Jag F-type will be next when my daughter can ride in the front seat?! Now that'll be a real change-up!

[JPBesl]

Originally Posted by visualguy

That is actually a reasonable solution... I find that the best solution is to own 3 vehicles: an SUV (for carrying bicycles, etc.), a sedan, and a sports car. This way, all bases are covered! They don't all need to be high-end.

I agree, but I just didn't put enough miles on it to warrant the expense. I felt like overall I could get a lot more value (mile) per dollar with the M4 right now. It killed me seeing that car sitting in the garage while I was pulling out of the driveway with the family.

[adc]

Originally Posted by JPBesl

So downside is I'm paying for miles I'm not using, but it's actually allowing me to trade out of cars more aggressively when I want.

Pardon my novice question, but how does this work? I too have low mileage on my car, and am interested in how it could help me trading out...


Thanks...

[JPBesl]

Originally Posted by adc

Pardon my novice question, but how does this work? I too have low mileage on my car, and am interested in how it could help me trading out...

Depending on the interest vs. residual parameters on your lease, if you drive much less miles than you're allotted, your car may have a trade-in value that is the same or more than the current full pay-out of your lease (the amount you'd have to pay to completely own the car).

So if you call your leasing company and get your current payout, a dealer must be willing to give you that amount (or more) as a trade-in for your car. If that's the case, you're out scott free.

Just make sure they are truly giving you that payout. Sometimes they roll in a difference in trade-in amount into your new lease, jacking the payments up. Make them break it out for you.

[adc]

Originally Posted by JPBesl

Depending on the interest vs. residual parameters on your lease, if you drive much less miles than you're allotted, your car may have a trade-in value that is the same or more than the current full pay-out of your lease (the amount you'd have to pay to completely own the car).

So if you call your leasing company and get your current payout, a dealer must be willing to give you that amount (or more) as a trade-in for your car. If that's the case, you're out scott free.

Just make sure they are truly giving you that payout. Sometimes they roll in a difference in trade-in amount into your new lease, jacking the payments up. Make them break it out for you.

Got it, thanks.

[W///]

Can you please comment on the brakes. I've had a chance to drive both (while admittedly not as hard on the M4 as the 911), and I thought they've come leaps and bounds with the new brakes. IMHO, the feel was just as nice as the 991, which were the nicest brakes I've had a chance to use (OEM).

[Rambler]

Originally Posted by adc

Got it, thanks.

Usually the remaining lease buyout is significantly higher than what a dealer will offer for trade, even with low miles (most leases have fairly low miles anyway so this wouldn't really be a factor). It may get closer to even as you approach the end of your lease but then you're almost done anyway. I wouldn't count on getting out of your lease early with equity. Bet on on having to owe money if you do that. I'm not calling BS on the OP but it's a highly unlikely scenario in my experience.

[Buddy Revell]

Originally Posted by JPBesl

I'll miss my old friend, and I have no doubt I'll be in a 911 again someday. But one of the best things about cars is that if you don't get uptight and personal and fanboy and base your identity on them, you get to have so much fun enjoying them for what they are, and what they bring to your life.

Very well-said. I need to make this my sig. So many people on car message boards like this one and others really need to learn this!

[Rambler]

Buddy Revell from 3 O'Clock High, lol?

[JoeFromPA]

Very surprising that the rear engined 911 is more easily controlled when it comes to swinging the rear end out and bringing it back. Not doubting you, and no doubt the 911 is going to have a traction advantage in the rear, but I'm just surprised that once the rear end is loose that the 911 isn't more tail happy. Testament to Porsche though.

I'll be frank and say I'm a bit concerned by just HOW tail happy the new m3 seems to be for many....I want a freak in the sheets, not a freak in the streets.

[JPBesl]

Originally Posted by Rambler

Usually the remaining lease buyout is significantly higher than what a dealer will offer for trade, even with low miles (most leases have fairly low miles anyway so this wouldn't really be a factor). It may get closer to even as you approach the end of your lease but then you're almost done anyway. I wouldn't count on getting out of your lease early with equity. Bet on on having to owe money if you do that. I'm not calling BS on the OP but it's a highly unlikely scenario in my experience.

Agree, it's not possible most times to get out even or positive. Here are more parameters.

My success has usually been within less than 10 months left on my 3 year lease.

When I talk about "low miles" I'm talking about the ballpark of less than 8k miles when I should be between the 20k - 30k.

The one time I made some money I didn't tell them it was a lease until we negotiated the offer. Just told them what I wanted as a trade, then dropped the lease bomb after the handshake.

[JPBesl]

Originally Posted by W///

Can you please comment on the brakes. I've had a chance to drive both (while admittedly not as hard on the M4 as the 911), and I thought they've come leaps and bounds with the new brakes. IMHO, the feel was just as nice as the 991, which were the nicest brakes I've had a chance to use (OEM).

I'm still on low miles and bedding the brakes (and have an unnerving intermittent pad scraping from the back left wheel). But that said, they feel much more grabby on initial push than the 911. I have not done threshold braking with them yet to see how hard I can stop, but so far, I have great confidence in them.

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Very surprising that the rear engined 911 is more easily controlled when it comes to swinging the rear end out and bringing it back. Not doubting you, and no doubt the 911 is going to have a traction advantage in the rear, but I'm just surprised that once the rear end is loose that the 911 isn't more tail happy. Testament to Porsche though.

I'll be frank and say I'm a bit concerned by just HOW tail happy the new m3 seems to be for many....I want a freak in the sheets, not a freak in the streets.

Less experienced drivers (99% of people on here) or anyone driving in wet weather should leave TC on on the streets = problem solved

[JPBesl]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Very surprising that the rear engined 911 is more easily controlled when it comes to swinging the rear end out and bringing it back. Not doubting you, and no doubt the 911 is going to have a traction advantage in the rear, but I'm just surprised that once the rear end is loose that the 911 isn't more tail happy. Testament to Porsche though.

I'll be frank and say I'm a bit concerned by just HOW tail happy the new m3 seems to be for many....I want a freak in the sheets, not a freak in the streets.

I'm going to learn a lot more about the balance when the roads cool off or I slide it around in the rain a bit. Hard to tell on the summer asphalt because when you power oversteer when it's hot, it's pretty abrupt.

When I bought the 991, my SA said "This isn't a car you slide around, it will bite you." and I was scared for a good amount of time to even turn PSM off completely.

But when I did, I took it slowly, and found out that it was really progressive. I don't know why, but I could kill the throttle and it would come back in line, I could countersteer and it would come back in line, and I had some time to make those decisions. I honestly don't understand why, except that the engine does sit more forward than previous generations, and could be considered more of a read-mid engined car than a read-engined car.

[JPBesl]

Originally Posted by Carl L

Less experienced drivers (99% of people on here) or anyone driving in wet weather should leave TC on on the streets = problem solved

Oh yeah, and MDM mode is pretty conservative. You'll be fine in either mode. It tames things down a lot.

[pkimM3r]

is the 991 really less snappy than an e92?? did they dial the snap oversteer out compared to 997s? i thought the general consensus was e9x, very easy to control...porsche, you better know what you are doing lol.

[brisance]

Originally Posted by JPBesl

I'm going to learn a lot more about the balance when the roads cool off or I slide it around in the rain a bit. Hard to tell on the summer asphalt because when you power oversteer when it's hot, it's pretty abrupt.

When I bought the 991, my SA said "This isn't a car you slide around, it will bite you." and I was scared for a good amount of time to even turn PSM off completely.

But when I did, I took it slowly, and found out that it was really progressive. I don't know why, but I could kill the throttle and it would come back in line, I could countersteer and it would come back in line, and I had some time to make those decisions. I honestly don't understand why, except that the engine does sit more forward than previous generations, and could be considered more of a read-mid engined car than a read-engined car.

I spent a few days last week driving the 991 C2S and a manual Cayman S on a wet skidpan. Like you I found the C2S very easy to control and safe. PASM was off. Go fast, turn, the car understeers. Dial more steering, understeer. Dab the throttle, understeer. You really need to be past the apex and give it a lot of steering and a big dab of the throttle to get it sliding. The Cayman on the other hand was way more fun. Light dab of the throttle in 2nd and she goes sideways.

[JPBesl]

Here was my first post a few days or so with the new M4.

Since that post:

• The size and weight of the car seem to be shrinking as I get more confident with it
• I'm using it so much more than my 911 for family outings - everyone loves this car
• I'm still getting used to not being able to plant my foot down coming out of corners
• I find my preferred seating position is closer to the pedals so I have more accurate control - one millimeter of pedal travel makes a huge difference
• The stereo is just mindblowing compared to my 911
• No rattles or squeaks, but I did have some brake wear in noise for 200 miles or so
• Seats are supportive and comfortable - a little worried about bolster wear from entry and exit
• Upshifts are definitively faster than my 991
• Torque band is great, power delivery is great, but I miss the payoff at high RPMs from a naturally-aspirated engine
• The sound is badass. Some muffler rattle before warm, but no biggie. I want it to be louder in the cabin.

Overall I'm really happy with it. I still call it a "compromise car" with the 911, but it's more like an "attribute swap". Each car has their positive attribute points that add up to a similar total amount of enjoyment. I've just chosen to reallocate my points