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      10-26-2020, 12:47 PM   #1
spennycc
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Question Brand new 6MT M4 Heritage Owner ( Need help! )

Hey bimmer fam,

Wanted to just first say that I previously owned an " m " 440i and I had it tuned with a full catback exhaust, all from active autowerk. It was automatic as well but I loved every second in it however I would always just drool over the actual M cars.

So i took the leap of faith traded it in ( got 27k for it so cleared of the owed amount ) and got a lease on a brand new m4 heritage.

However.... I went for 6MT and I am slowly getting better and have read a ton and watched a ton of videos but still struggling with a few things.

Most notably " moving off " faster, currently I usually try to baby the clutch into the biting point and then get it a bit of gas and then fully come off the clutch. This is offly slow and I've had to make a few left turns in a intersection that were really scary because of this.

Also I'll add that this is my daily and im not sure if I am crazy for that as when I've taken night drives its been great but sometimes during the day it can be rough with the 6MT.

I am only a week in currently and I feel like I get slightly better with each passing day but I really struggle with going at a quick speed, ( not trying to fully launch here. )

Anyways I figured this would be my last chance to truly drive a manual car so I went for it but its been a bit scary and WAY more challenging then just flooring it in the automatic 440i.

Open to any advice you guys will have for me.

PS I usually drive in sports, sometimes in efficient but have yet to try sport+
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      10-26-2020, 12:54 PM   #2
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Just drive it man, it will get easier with time. What are you scared of? Stalling? Everyone does it once and awhile regardless of how long you have driven a manual.
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      10-26-2020, 01:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spennycc View Post
Hey bimmer fam,

Wanted to just first say that I previously owned an " m " 440i and I had it tuned with a full catback exhaust, all from active autowerk. It was automatic as well but I loved every second in it however I would always just drool over the actual M cars.

So i took the leap of faith traded it in ( got 27k for it so cleared of the owed amount ) and got a lease on a brand new m4 heritage.

However.... I went for 6MT and I am slowly getting better and have read a ton and watched a ton of videos but still struggling with a few things.

Most notably " moving off " faster, currently I usually try to baby the clutch into the biting point and then get it a bit of gas and then fully come off the clutch. This is offly slow and I've had to make a few left turns in a intersection that were really scary because of this.

Also I'll add that this is my daily and im not sure if I am crazy for that as when I've taken night drives its been great but sometimes during the day it can be rough with the 6MT.

I am only a week in currently and I feel like I get slightly better with each passing day but I really struggle with going at a quick speed, ( not trying to fully launch here. )

Anyways I figured this would be my last chance to truly drive a manual car so I went for it but its been a bit scary and WAY more challenging then just flooring it in the automatic 440i.

Open to any advice you guys will have for me.

PS I usually drive in sports, sometimes in efficient but have yet to try sport+
Drive in efficient only for now until your smooth with the clutch. Sport plus is very aggressive and difficult to manage if you're not really experienced.

Go to an empty parking lot.

No gas pedal at all

practice rolling off the clutch until you can do it sorta quick.

You'll get to know exactly where the clutch grabs.

Congratulations; when you get smooth with it the car will take off like butter
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      10-26-2020, 01:10 PM   #4
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Clutch delay valve. Every manual transmission BMW has one, and yes including this one. Do a forum and google search, and if you are mechanically able, it takes about an hour. Took one out of my E93, made a world of difference. This one took a little more effort, but guess what? It made a world of difference in first and second gear. I have only driven manual cars for over 20 years and it still has me at a loss of words why BMW still uses a clutch delay valve. For everyone that says deal with it and be a better manual driver, they have obviously never experienced the car without the CDV and how a manual should actually feel in 1st and 2nd. (CDV slows the operation of the clutch engagement and was designed to protect the clutch from engaging too quickly and possibly wearing it out).
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      10-26-2020, 01:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f80er View Post
Just drive it man, it will get easier with time. What are you scared of? Stalling? Everyone does it once and awhile regardless of how long you have driven a manual.
For sure; I'm on my 6th MT M3; stalled in my driveway this morning

OP, it will, with time... a lot of time, become second nature and you won't need to look and see what gear you're in. Eventually, you'll know what you can safely downshift into for the powerband. And to answer your question, if I'm in traffic for some time, the clutch gets cranky.
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      10-26-2020, 01:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmnelson12 View Post
Clutch delay valve. Every manual transmission BMW has one, and yes including this one. Do a forum and google search, and if you are mechanically able, it takes about an hour. Took one out of my E93, made a world of difference. This one took a little more effort, but guess what? It made a world of difference in first and second gear. I have only driven manual cars for over 20 years and it still has me at a loss of words why BMW still uses a clutch delay valve. For everyone that says deal with it and be a better manual driver, they have obviously never experienced the car without the CDV and how a manual should actually feel in 1st and 2nd. (CDV slows the operation of the clutch engagement and was designed to protect the clutch from engaging too quickly and possibly wearing it out).
Is that what it is? I've never owned a car where the clutch lags behind like my F80. It's annoying as fuck, but it does smoothen out the clutch in stop and go traffic.

When I drive any manual, it's either clutch in or out. No bs playing around. I've been driving manual for 37 years and I've only had to replace one clutch, and that was on the first car I ever owned with a manual when I was 17.

To the OP. Once you get moving, get off the clutch pedal as fast as you can and give it gas once the pedal is all the way out. Get a feel where it bites and that's when you can give more gas. After a while it takes no thinking about it.
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      10-26-2020, 01:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocL View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmnelson12 View Post
Clutch delay valve. Every manual transmission BMW has one, and yes including this one. Do a forum and google search, and if you are mechanically able, it takes about an hour. Took one out of my E93, made a world of difference. This one took a little more effort, but guess what? It made a world of difference in first and second gear. I have only driven manual cars for over 20 years and it still has me at a loss of words why BMW still uses a clutch delay valve. For everyone that says deal with it and be a better manual driver, they have obviously never experienced the car without the CDV and how a manual should actually feel in 1st and 2nd. (CDV slows the operation of the clutch engagement and was designed to protect the clutch from engaging too quickly and possibly wearing it out).
Is that what it is? I've never owned a car where the clutch lags behind like my F80. It's annoying as fuck, but it does smoothen out the clutch in stop and go traffic.

When I drive any manual, it's either clutch in or out. No bs playing around. I've been driving manual for 37 years and I've only had to replace one clutch, and that was on the first car I ever owned with a manual when I was 17.

To the OP. Once you get moving, get off the clutch pedal as fast as you can and give it gas once the pedal is all the way out. Get a feel where it bites and that's when you can give more gas. After a while it takes no thinking about it.
Hands down the best modification you can make to this (manual) car... and its pretty much free! But seriously, you will re fall in love with the car.

Side note, i burned my first cars clutch too! Hahaha
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      10-26-2020, 01:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbennettksu View Post
For sure; I'm on my 6th MT M3; stalled in my driveway this morning
Lol I know the feeling. Especially when I do it with my son in the car and he looks at me funny.
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      10-26-2020, 01:30 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the input so far!

So just to be clear steps to getting off in a hurry ( say left in an intersection )

1- Be in first gear, clutch all the way down. and right foot on break

2- bring clutch up right before biting point.

* now to actually go *

3- Engage biting point and give it some gas ( 3k RPM? )

4- Full come off clutch ( and probably prepare to head to 2nd gear shortly )

Is this roughly correct?
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      10-26-2020, 01:32 PM   #10
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Congrats on the car and thank you for helping us save the manual.

Kinda difficult to imagine in my head as to what you're exactly doing, but it seems that you are riding the clutch way too much if you're not getting off the line very quickly. Holding the clutch just right before & at the biting point while adding more and more throttle is how you burn your clutch.

May I advise you to go to a flat parking lot with lots of space. There, take your foot off the throttle, put it in first, and just use the clutch to move off the line. The engine will add a couple hundred revs to help you out. Be slow and careful with your left foot as you have to ride that biting point for quite a bit not to stall. What's this gonna help you with is finding the dead spot in the clutch travel, the biting point and learning how to stay in it. Also, this is great for stop-and-go traffic. Car will drive a few miles an hour while in gear near idle no problem.

You will later realise that you unconsciously just ignore the dead spot altogether and move your foot to the very end of the dead stop where the clutch is beginning to grab while applying the right amount of throttle for the given situation. Under no circumstance reduce throttle while staying on the clutch - just clutch in instead.

Put simply, the faster you want to start, the more throttle and "less" clutch you gotta use.

It took me a few days to get the hang of it as this car's powertrain does not behave the same as other BMWs I have driven; however, it is easy to learn ESPECIALLY with auto rev match on. Difficult to master, though. Gets tricky once you're up in the revs trying to swiftly row through the first three gears - couple threads on that already.

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      10-26-2020, 01:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spennycc View Post
Thanks for all the input so far!

So just to be clear steps to getting off in a hurry ( say left in an intersection )

1- Be in first gear, clutch all the way down. and right foot on break

2- bring clutch up right before biting point.

* now to actually go *

3- Engage biting point and give it some gas ( 3k RPM? )

4- Full come off clutch ( and probably prepare to head to 2nd gear shortly )

Is this roughly correct?
No, you've stalled. Forgot to take right foot off the brake.

Give it some gas riiiight before the biting point. RPMs vary on the situation, e.g. slope of the hill, surface condition, etc. In ideal situation, i.e. warm sunny day on a flat surface, ca. 1,500 is enough. Have some mechanical sympathy and listen and watch what your car is doing.

As I said in my previous post, learn how to use it in a slow manner first. And wait at the intersection for the traffic to clear so you're not so in a hurry to move.
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      10-26-2020, 01:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
Congrats on the car and thank you for helping us save the manual.

Kinda difficult to imagine in my head as to what you're exactly doing, but it seems that you are riding the clutch way too much if you're not getting off the line very quickly. Holding the clutch just right before & at the biting point while adding more and more throttle is how you burn your clutch.

May I advise you to go to a flat parking lot with lots of space. There, take your foot off the throttle, put it in first, and just use the clutch to move off the line. The engine will add a couple hundred revs to help you out. Be slow and careful with your left foot as you have to ride that biting point for quite a bit not to stall. What's this gonna help you with is finding the dead spot in the clutch travel, the biting point and learning how to stay in it. Also, this is great for stop-and-go traffic. Car will drive a few miles an hour while in gear near idle no problem.

You will later realise that you unconsciously just ignore the dead spot altogether and move your foot to the very end of the dead stop where the clutch is beginning to grab while applying the right amount of throttle for the given situation. Under no circumstance reduce throttle while staying on the clutch - just clutch in instead.

Put simply, the faster you want to start, the more throttle and "less" clutch you gotta use.

It took me a few days to get the hang of it as this car's powertrain does not behave the same as other BMWs I have driven; however, it is easy to learn ESPECIALLY with auto rev match on. Difficult to master, though. Gets tricky once you're up in the revs trying to swiftly row through the first three gears - couple threads on that already.

Thank you for the detailed write up!

I have gone and done the practice in the parking lot of going without the gas, and getting out of my parking garage has made this a daily habit so I have going " slow " down.

My real issue is trying to go quickly, I tend to either stall or wheel spin ( not launching per say but just a quick go. )
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      10-26-2020, 01:42 PM   #13
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you may want to look into installing one of these https://burgertuning.com/products/bm...06-mini-cooper

It shortens the clutch so that it engages quicker. Sounds like that may be your problem is with a longer clutch engagement.
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      10-26-2020, 02:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spennycc View Post
Thanks for all the input so far!

So just to be clear steps to getting off in a hurry ( say left in an intersection )

1- Be in first gear, clutch all the way down. and right foot on break

2- bring clutch up right before biting point.

* now to actually go *

3- Engage biting point and give it some gas ( 3k RPM? )

4- Full come off clutch ( and probably prepare to head to 2nd gear shortly )

Is this roughly correct?
3k can be a fun launch rpm. Don't just dump it or you'll spin, feather it and you'll take off fast.
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      10-26-2020, 03:38 PM   #15
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I usually just tap it really quick as you come off the clutch, and then ease into the gas for normal driving.
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      10-26-2020, 03:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f80er View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbennettksu View Post
For sure; I'm on my 6th MT M3; stalled in my driveway this morning
Lol I know the feeling. Especially when I do it with my son in the car and he looks at me funny.
Phew —— that is a relief. I thought I was the only one!!
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      10-26-2020, 03:49 PM   #17
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In general, you won't get the car going from a stop as quickly as an automatic. Your driving style needs to adapt for this, such as when making a left turn in an open intersection. If you try to go as fast as an automatic, you'll likely have to use more rpms and slip the clutch more than desirable, slightly burning the clutch. If you use more rpm but let the clutch out too quickly, you'll just bog down. Lot of good advise from others in practicing without using any gas to get going in an open lot. I took the plunge many years ago and got better over time. Give it a month or two and be patient.
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      10-27-2020, 02:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVM3 View Post
In general, you won't get the car going from a stop as quickly as an automatic. Your driving style needs to adapt for this, such as when making a left turn in an open intersection. If you try to go as fast as an automatic, you'll likely have to use more rpms and slip the clutch more than desirable, slightly burning the clutch. If you use more rpm but let the clutch out too quickly, you'll just bog down. Lot of good advise from others in practicing without using any gas to get going in an open lot. I took the plunge many years ago and got better over time. Give it a month or two and be patient.
Yeah this is a sad truth is that I just cant go as fast as an automatic or even as close as one at the moment as im still on the learning curve, but I do feel like I get a bit better everyday that I drive.
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      10-27-2020, 05:27 PM   #19
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Engagement of the clutch is almost as subjective to some as the sounds of the exhaust. You just need to log your own time with the car to figure out what works for you, as for what works for me isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, and I certainly can’t say I shift better than everyone else.

This seems like a car you want to take care of, so I doubt you will ever beat on her like she deserves. If you stay stock, and don’t tune, then have at it and don’t worry about punching the ticket whenever you want.

Finally, congrats.... Let the MT live on!

Last edited by BoxKing; 10-28-2020 at 08:54 AM..
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      10-27-2020, 05:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spennycc View Post
Thanks for all the input so far!

So just to be clear steps to getting off in a hurry ( say left in an intersection )

1- Be in first gear, clutch all the way down. and right foot on break

2- bring clutch up right before biting point.

* now to actually go *

3- Engage biting point and give it some gas ( 3k RPM? )

4- Full come off clutch ( and probably prepare to head to 2nd gear shortly )

Is this roughly correct?
This car is incredibly easy to drive smooth. There are a lot of nannies that will help even the novice so learn how to use them to your advantage.

For example, as previously mentioned (and related to #3), you slowly start releasing the clutch pedal and the car will on its own move forward. You do not need to add any throttle and if you do, it should be minimal until you are fully off the clutch. Do NOT rev to 3k RPM and ride the clutch as you will burn it up in no time, burn rubber or worse, wreck when the car lurches forward on you unexpectedly.

Shift around 2.5k to 3k rpm for leisurely driving. No need to get into aggressive driving until you've mastered driving at a normal pace first.

Most importantly, do not rush to upshift and make sure you put the clutch in all the way for every shift BEFORE you move the shifter to change gears. I've seen many older E46 and E39s with mangled synchros from folks ramming the shifter from gear to gear without pushing the clutch in all the way.

Downshifts are easy in this car as the car will automatically revmatch for you. All you need to do is gently move the shifter from one gear to another in a nice fluid motion with minimal force. It will just glide into gear (this applies to upshifts as well, by the way).

Know that driving a manual transmission properly is going to take time and practice. In fact most people never learn to do it well, even if they can technically operate a manual transmission car. good luck and have fun.
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      10-27-2020, 06:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spennycc View Post
Yeah this is a sad truth is that I just cant go as fast as an automatic or even as close as one at the moment as im still on the learning curve, but I do feel like I get a bit better everyday that I drive.
I am with you on this. Just got the Heritage a week ago as my first manual and shifting from stopped-1-2 is challenging. As much as I want to shift in the 2.5-3k range I feel like I don't have enough momentum (even in efficient mode).

But driving in 3-4-5-6 is a breeze given the added momentum in the 2-3k bands.

I've been practicing just feeling and listening to the engine and ensuring my shifts are smooth. Every time I try to be quick and fast, things don't go smooth. Hopefully things will come more quickly with daily practice.
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      10-28-2020, 02:12 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by bp7 View Post
I am with you on this. Just got the Heritage a week ago as my first manual and shifting from stopped-1-2 is challenging. As much as I want to shift in the 2.5-3k range I feel like I don't have enough momentum (even in efficient mode).

But driving in 3-4-5-6 is a breeze given the added momentum in the 2-3k bands.

I've been practicing just feeling and listening to the engine and ensuring my shifts are smooth. Every time I try to be quick and fast, things don't go smooth. Hopefully things will come more quickly with daily practice.
Good to know I'm not the only one.

I can shift through all the gears very smoothly if I am going at grandma speed ( even in sport. ) but if I try to add a bit of throttle literally shifting from 1-2 and 2-3 is rarely smooth.
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