GTS - DCT Flash Feedback Review //Lets Hear It !

[Lojs]

Originally Posted by gynecarlogist

Tell me, where's the difference in parts from the transmission downstream through the power train? Wheels and tires excluded of course. ;-)

I can not add much more here than in my original post above.
You have the "from the transmission downstream all parts are same" mentality, and are to some extent right.
BMW has "its a different car as a whole" mentality. Its the same reason why for example in Germany it is illegal just to mount GTS wheels on my standard M4. Yes they physically fit, but the police and the authorities dont care: these wheels have not been released for the standard car. Full stop.

[packet pilot]

Originally Posted by Lojs

I can not add much more here than in my original post above.
You have the "from the transmission downstream all parts are same" mentality, and are to some extent right.
BMW has "its a different car as a whole" mentality. Its the same reason why for example in Germany it is illegal just to mount GTS wheels on my standard M4. Yes they physically fit, but the police and the authorities dont care: these wheels have not been released for the standard car. Full stop.

Wow, coming from a stint in aviation, I'm surprised that sort of regulation/certification for entire vehicle-level integration exists in the automotive space. Had no idea. Does it also apply to an approved tires list, out of curiosity?

edit: sorry, I might be misunderstanding. Illegal for BMW to sell, or illegal for a driver to drive, in Germany? I thought the latter but on second thought I think you're just talking about the former.

[Lojs]

Originally Posted by gynecarlogist

Wow, coming from a stint in aviation, I'm surprised that sort of regulation/certification for entire vehicle-level integration exists in the automotive space. Had no idea. Does it also apply to an approved tires list, out of curiosity?

edit: sorry, I might be misunderstanding. Illegal for BMW to sell, or illegal for a driver to drive, in Germany? I thought the latter but on second thought I think you're just talking about the former.

Well, BMW will probably SELL you parts, but they will not mount them for you. Nor will any reputable tire shop mount wheels/tires that are not listed in your car registration papers. Mounting uncertified wheel sizes qualifies as modification and makes your car formally illegal for driving on public roads and voids your insurance. It does not mean that absolutely nobody does this, some people take risks, the police does not check each and every tire size, especially if it is not extreme. But you will not pass inspection.
You can apply for a special procedure of individual certification of modifications, where they would check and approve and write it into the registration papers, but costs money and lots of effort.

[mrgicm]

I have it through BM3 and to be honest cant tell much of a difference... the shifts were smooth before and I was in track before and after and did not feel the difference...

Certainly cant say its night and day...

[brian30tw]

I had the GTS DCT flash done by Alex@Alpine today and like it so far. I have a 2015 M3 that had software updated to 59.x last summer. Here are some observations after a brief drive around the city.

First, it seems smoother in stop and go situations, parking lots, places like that. It seems like it can hold the RPMs steady at lower levels while engaging the creeping function or something like that. Not sure exactly, but it requires less throttle input to get it going and keep it crawling, which makes for smoother starting.

Second, my previous update to 59.x software made the downshift from 3rd to 2nd while braking to a stop in D2 (my default driving setting) very harsh. The GTS flash has smoothed that out, which was my biggest hope.

Finally, it does behave differently than before in many situations. I think it holds gears a bit longer than before in D2, but I'm not positive yet. When I brake hard, it will downshift multiple gears at once (I don't think I ever saw the standard flash downshift more than one gear at a time in D2 before). When coming to a stop, it seems to downshift more frequently instead of waiting until you are stopped. Some of these behaviors might have been present before in D3, but I don't remember any of them in D2 before.

All in all, I'm happy with it so far and would recommend it to anyone. Alex@Alpine is a great guy, very helpful and efficient.

[1MORELAP]

I know that this is little off-topic. I am happy with the VF-Engineering DCT flash. It just works better overall.

[Fugazii]

Originally Posted by 1MORELAP

I know that this is little off-topic. I am happy with the VF-Engineering DCT flash. It just works better overall.

Overall compared to what?

[Lojs]

Originally Posted by Fugazii

Overall compared to what?

Stock

[BuLoOoSki]

I first tried this flash last October, and like some of you here, I also didn't feel much of a difference. My main goal with the DCT flash was the increased clamping force (I guess we all assume it comes with it), but there were some small things I didn't like about the DCT that I was hoping the GTS flash would take care of. However, in terms of daily drivability I didn't feel any improvement.

Two weeks ago however I was working with proTUNING Freaks to integrate the latest GTS TCU changes into the BM3 DCT flash just to try it out and see if I notice any of the improvements many of you are talking about. After driving for about 2 weeks and giving the DCT time to adapt I'm pretty happy with the update.

Creeping/slowly accelerating from a stop in first gear is much smoother now (driving in S2), as it used to be jerky and quite rough before.

Shifting in S2 is much smoother in general, particularly downshifts. I used to feel the DCT very clunky, particularly in the second to first gear downshifts. Upshifts also seem more seamless now.

Lastly, contrary to what you'd expect from a GTS flash (I personally assumed it would be all about performance), but the car drives much more "efficient" in D1. Besides shifting smoother, it also shifts much sooner than before and doesn't hold the gears as long as before. I guess that will save a few trees in the long run for you tree huggers :P

[zac5]

I agree with everyone above regarding "smoother shifts on daily driving" comments, but am I the only person feel GTS TCU flash shifts a tad bit slower than stock during track driving? I also experienced a few miss-shifts with GTS TCU flash on track which I had never experienced with stock dct.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by zac5

I agree with everyone above regarding "smoother shifts on daily driving" comments, but am I the only person feel GTS TCU flash shifts a tad bit slower than stock during track driving? I also experienced a few miss-shifts with GTS TCU flash on track which I had never experienced with stock dct.

Haven't felt it being slower or faster. If anything, some say they feel it shifting faster. They must have some super sensors nodes to notice a difference.

[zac5]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

Haven't felt it being slower or faster. If anything, some say they feel it shifting faster. They must have some super sensors nodes to notice a difference.

Maybe I have yet made myself clear on the statement. What I meant was the DCT reacted slower when I pushed the up/down shift paddles on track after GTS TCU flash.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by zac5

Maybe I have yet made myself clear on the statement. What I meant was the DCT reacted slower when I pushed the up/down shift paddles on track after GTS TCU flash.

I haven't noticed a change in response time between pulling a paddle and a gear change with the GTS DCT software. The GTS DCT software is definitely not as abrupt when shifting under WOT at/near redline but I don't know whether this is due to a slower trans shift time and/or changes to throttle "lift" strategy, clutch re-engagement, etc.

Does your DCT do this all of the time or, for example, only after ~20+ min of track time? Which DCT setting do you use on track? I do know the e92 M3 DCT paddle pull-to-gear shift time starts to lag as the DCT temp rises on track. An aftermarket DCT cooler addresses this lag issue on the e9x M3; however, I'm unaware of any f8x M3/4 DCT on-track cooling issues.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by zac5

Maybe I have yet made myself clear on the statement. What I meant was the DCT reacted slower when I pushed the up/down shift paddles on track after GTS TCU flash.

I understood what you said but what I was saying is whether you feel it slower, or others who feel it faster, it just boggles my mind. Because IF those updated softwares do in fact have an affect on shifting speeds, we are talking milliseconds. To me, that is an undetectable difference. So what I'm suggesting is that its all placebo.

[skalberti]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

I understood what you said but what I was saying is whether you feel it slower, or others who feel it faster, it just boggles my mind. Because IF those updated softwares do in fact have an affect on shifting speeds, we are talking milliseconds. To me, that is an undetectable difference. So what I'm suggesting is that its all placebo.

The biggest notice I see in the GTS flash is:

Goes into reverse faster

Very aggressive downshifts with overrun burbles. (Stock only had 1 aggressive downshift from 3-2 with a burble) the GTS has 3-4 downshifts with a overrun burble on each downshift.

The GTS always keeps the DCT in the right gear. Before there was always a delay in the DCT downshift if you were slowing down and then stepped on the gas all of a sudden. Now, it has already downshifted and the car immediately accelerates.

The rear diff is a big improvement as well. At stock coming into a curve, as you start to accelerate at the apex the car always seems like the back end was about to let loose, kinda squirly. Now you can feel the car dig in and feels like you're being sling shot out of the curve. It definitely instills more driving confidence. Plus my traction control light doesn't come on near as much as it did stock.

[aboulfad]

I swear, this software update placebo (SUP) is like a highly contagious virus, now I can't resist anymore and will flash GTS DCT on my M4 again! Having done it last year, tracked with it, and drove normal with it, not noticing anything different... well except Esys showed me I had GTS DCT software : (i drove for few months last year until dealer updated my Istep and never bothered flashing it again...)

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

I swear, this software update placebo (SUP) is like a highly contagious virus, now I can't resist anymore and will flash GTS DCT on my M4 again! Having done it last year, tracked with it, and drove normal with it, not noticing anything different... well except Esys showed me I had GTS DCT software : (i drove for few months last year until dealer updated my Istep and never bothered flashing it again...)

Honestly, with the previous version of the GTS DCT flash that I've been driving on for the past 9 months I also didn't feel the slightest difference. But with many people posting about how much better the DCT is with the GTS flash I had to try and see if the latest changes made a difference. So I threw out the idea to proTUNING Freaks to update the DCT flash on the BM3 with the latest changes and he was up for it. He did mention that the latest update had significant changes and it took a bit of work to integrate them. Two weeks after driving around with the update it was clear to me that there were definitely some improvements. Keep in mind it wont be a night and day difference (imo atleast), but a few small changes that make it all around better. The fact that skalberti also noticed the exact same behavioral changes that I did (including how it shifts early in D1) confirms that.

So what I'm saying is you might have tried one of the earlier versions like I did which didn't have noticeable differences in daily driving. Worse case you can just revert, I'm sure it won't take you more than a few minutes

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

Honestly, with the previous version of the GTS DCT flash that I've been driving on for the past 9 months I also didn't feel the slightest difference. ... He did mention that the latest update had significant changes and it took a bit of work to integrate them. ...

So what I'm saying is you might have tried one of the earlier versions like I did which didn't have noticeable differences in daily driving. Worse case you can just revert, I'm sure it won't take you more than a few minutes

Ok now you sold me, how the hec can PTF or any other tuner know changes to transmission software (hmm what processor is used there)! So if they say there are changes, then the SUP is even more real

Indeed I tried the first one mid last year, where few were raving about the improvements... just like now... so many opinions but very few facts. I believe, and I made this point last year, that for the same Istep, whatever common improvements/bug fixes are introduced to all DCT software. (Maybe PTF can show us a diff )

PS: I am lazy to flash back and forth, you guys have it nice, push a button and boom it's done!
PPS: so which flavor ECE or US is being used ;-)

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Ok now you sold me, how the hec can PTF or any other tuner know changes to transmission software (hmm what processor is used there)! So if they say there are changes, then the SUP is even more real

Indeed I tried the first one mid last year, where few were raving about the improvements... just like now... so many opinions but very few facts. I believe, and I made this point last year, that for the same Istep, whatever common improvements/bug fixes are introduced to all DCT software. (Maybe PTF can show us a diff )

PS: I am lazy to flash back and forth, you guys have it nice, push a button and boom it's done!
PPS: so which flavor ECE or US is being used ;-)

Aside from your sarcasm, and before you get too excited, but that sentence is a continuation of the one before. But just in case my statement wasn't clear, What I meant is there were significant changes that required some work to INTEGRATE the latest software in the BM3 TCU flashing ability

Now whether PTF or any other tuner has the ability to see what changes the TCU updates exactly bring I cannot say, but I can say that he was able to identify a particular change in the latest software that required some changes to allow it to flash with the app

But you might have a fair point that any updates or improvements could be applied to all DCT software varients (regular M, ZCP, GTS) in a particular I-STEP. So whatever improvements I'm feeling could very well be there for the regular DCT software from the same updated I-step. But still there is the benefit of increased clamping force that you get with the GTS flash that for us with modified cars is a plus.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

... But still there is the benefit of increased clamping force that you get with the GTS flash that for us with modified cars is a plus.

And thats where I think it may make a difference, for modified/tuned cars. Gotcha on the integration effort into BM3. (BTW, I didnt mean to be sarcastic, just being silly )

PS: ok I flashed this morning 38C2_000_048_002 using Esys on my DCT, I'll observe and report in few days.

[ucsbshawn]

Where are you finding a 'updated' flash at? When I log into bootmod3 I see version 1.0. Is that different from what I had installed 8 months ago?

[sdwilly]

Originally Posted by ucsbshawn

Where are you finding a 'updated' flash at? When I log into bootmod3 I see version 1.0. Is that different from what I had installed 8 months ago?

It still shows version 1.0, but it will grab the latest when you flash it (Had the same question when I did mine).