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      10-22-2019, 12:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
That isn't happening until sales decline. And the F8X gen was a massive sales success so they aren't changing anytime soon is my guess.

Unfortunately the older car enthusiasts are getting replaced by a newer breed that wants what BMW (and others) are selling. They are already being replaced by a generation that wants nothing to do with driving.
Bingo. Scan the thread on the leaked G80 photos and there’s almost no mention of these larger market factors. The old guard is still convinced that M division’s priority is creating unique, involving driving machines for nostalgic types like us. I don’t know how much further they’d have to depart from the traditional M formula to convince some that isn’t the case.

Have a 17 yo nephew. No interest in getting a license. None. He’s not alone.

Many who still do want a car are more interested in being seen in it and upping the drama of social media posts than they are driving, which is – as I see it – the only possible reason why BMW is going with an obscenely garish look on the new M3/M4. There are countless awesome design evolutions from the F8X. And if the design rumors are right, they’re going with none of them.

When drivers of the new generations do hit the loud pedal for some Instagram likes, it’s probably best that all-wheel drive keep them pointed straight ahead.

M is no longer making cars aimed at the E36-E46-E9X audience. We’re old news.
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      10-22-2019, 01:11 PM   #46
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"Have a 17 yo nephew. No interest in getting a license. None. He’s not alone."

This is not a market you create products for....and kids like that have always existed. Usually their urbanites who use public transportation and don't see themselves ever living in a situation where a depreciating, costly asset that needs to be physically located is a real concern. I mean look at NYC - they have actively made the city anti-car for anyone who isn't exceedingly wealthy.

Anywho...

I'm in a place where a combination of youth running out, high income coming in, and other financial factors suddenly make me able to literally live the dream. Buy a new/used 911, buy almost any BMW I want, etc....and for the life of me I'm having a ridiculous time finding something "better" for me than my well-loved 67k mile, 5 year old f80 6mt.

I told myself when I had the means I would live the life....and here I am holding on for dear life

Does this make me old? Or the new products unattractive?

P.s. 2017 911 GTS 6mt seems like the sweet spot to me right now. A bit high priced but damn-a-lam that's a nice vehicle.
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      10-22-2019, 01:12 PM   #47
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If the C8Z06 ends up being what we're all anticipating, that'll be the ticket.

If you've got the funds then maybe it's time to upgrade to a Porsche.

Agreed though, I won't even consider the next gen. The F8X is miles away from being perfect but it still has a little bit of character that makes it appealing. Ford and Chevy make better sports cars than BMW at the moment. Let that soak in. I wish BMW luck in their endeavors making mediocre commuters with M badges all over them. They won't and will never compete with MB in comfort and luxury.

Realistically, we're all expecting too much of BMW. They're still a major step down from Porsche in every category.
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      10-22-2019, 01:16 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by NYG View Post
If the C8Z06 ends up being what we're all anticipating, that'll be the ticket.

If you've got the funds then maybe it's time to upgrade to a Porsche.

Agreed though, I won't even consider the next gen. The F8X is miles away from being perfect but it still has a little bit of character that makes it appealing. I wish BMW luck in their endeavors making mediocre commuters with M badges all over them. They won't and will never compete with MB in comfort and luxury so I'm sure they'll regret their decisions in the near future.

Realistically, we're all expecting too much of BMW. They're still a major step down from Porsche in every category.
I thought a C8 Z51 GS was going to be the ticket till it turned out the be a no brake feel, no steering feel, poor threshold braking, understeering till it spins mess of a car-- and that was after I had already mentally/morally compromised on the lack of manual trans because I expected the rest of the car to be so good.

Ugh
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      10-22-2019, 01:17 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I thought a C8 Z51 GS was going to be the ticket till it turned out the be a no brake feel, no steering feel, poor threshold braking, understeering till it spins mess of a car-- and that was after I had already mentally/morally compromised on the lack of manual trans because I expected the rest of the car to be so good.

Ugh
You got a chance to drive one?

That being said the C7Z06 will be nice and cheap in the near future and that car is a BEAST.
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      10-22-2019, 01:22 PM   #50
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"Have a 17 yo nephew. No interest in getting a license. None. He’s not alone."

This is not a market you create products for....and kids like that have always existed. Usually their urbanites who use public transportation and don't see themselves ever living in a situation where a depreciating, costly asset that needs to be physically located is a real concern. I mean look at NYC - they have actively made the city anti-car for anyone who isn't exceedingly wealthy.

Anywho...

I'm in a place where a combination of youth running out, high income coming in, and other financial factors suddenly make me able to literally live the dream. Buy a new/used 911, buy almost any BMW I want, etc....and for the life of me I'm having a ridiculous time finding something "better" for me than my well-loved 67k mile, 5 year old f80 6mt.

I told myself when I had the means I would live the life....and here I am holding on for dear life

Does this make me old? Or the new products unattractive?

P.s. 2017 911 GTS 6mt seems like the sweet spot to me right now. A bit high priced but damn-a-lam that's a nice vehicle.
No, I'm talking about a modern phenomenon: https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/201...e-gerstenblatt

The way you generate interest and become an object of desire among this age group is to be Instagram-worthy.

Old & hanging on... Suppose I'm with you there. Same on the 911 front, but I'll probably have the naturally-aspirated dual clutch GT3 version.
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      10-22-2019, 02:27 PM   #51
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My M4 lease is up and i'm going to take a break from BMW and revisit once the G80/82 are a couple years old.

I really hope they're not hideous.
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      10-22-2019, 02:56 PM   #52
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What's the dilemma? Isn't this everyone else's car plan? M3 -> 911 -> Aston -> McLaren -> Lambo -> Ferrari -> Pagani -> Bugatti :
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      10-22-2019, 02:58 PM   #53
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What's the dilemma? Natural progression. M3 -> 911 -> Aston -> Ferrari -> McClaren -> Bugatti :
Dude. are you the proprietor implied by your forum handle?
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      10-22-2019, 03:40 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
No, I'm talking about a modern phenomenon: https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/201...e-gerstenblatt

The way you generate interest and become an object of desire among this age group is to be Instagram-worthy.

Old & hanging on... Suppose I'm with you there. Same on the 911 front, but I'll probably have the naturally-aspirated dual clutch GT3 version.
It's funny; I'm a father of 3. And I just can't sign onto a sports car I can't theoretically drive my 3 boys in.

Anywho, I'm blessed to live 2 miles from a very reputable used porsche dealer who has - IN STOCK mind you...1970s-1990s air cooled in beautiful condition + two 997.2 turbos in speed yellow, and 800 hp 2007 911 turbo, and RS America.....the list goes on.

I'm going to try to decide how I want my 911 journey to roll using them, the MacLaren dealership 3 miles from my house, and the Porsche (new & CPO) dealer just a bit further down the road.

Man am I blessed in where I live
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      10-22-2019, 04:38 PM   #55
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What's the dilemma? Isn't this everyone else's car plan? M3 -> 911 -> Aston -> McLaren -> Lambo -> Ferrari -> Pagani -> Bugatti :
Honestly, I’d rather spend that $ to do arrive and drive at semi pro races
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      10-22-2019, 05:16 PM   #56
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I was lucky enough to be allowed to drive a new 2020 M5. Both in AWD and in RWD. I can tell you that this very much is still an M car. There is no way I could have pushed my M4 anywhere near as hard. The M5 did it effortlessly. Of course, that all comes at a large premium price point.

However, after looking at the Toyota Supra, and it's price tag of ~$30k less than my M4, I'm wondering what BMW it's trying to accomplish with the M line these days. They clearly CAN build an affordable car that performs magnificently. I almost wish I had waited another two years. If I were buying a car today, the Supra is hands down where I would put my money.
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      10-23-2019, 05:41 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
That isn't happening until sales decline. And the F8X gen was a massive sales success so they aren't changing anytime soon is my guess.

Unfortunately the older car enthusiasts are getting replaced by a newer breed that wants what BMW (and others) are selling. They are already being replaced by a generation that wants nothing to do with driving.

There are few cars being sold today that you and others like you would actually want to buy (not a newsflash to you I know ), but there are still some interesting rawish cars out there. US manufacturers are doing it, but even the GT350s and SS/ZL1 1LEs are heavier cars. In Fords case they have serious quality/reliability issues. I'll find out in a year if I'm going down the same road with GM. Miatas are fun, but just a two seater and need more power IMO. Same with some Alfas, but everyone knows their issues except for some fanboys. Then you get into the exotics which is where BMW used to fill in the lower niche. Porsche has always been overpriced and everytime I finally think about pulling the trigger on a 911, I drive one and find them too good, too isolating and not a lot of good drama. A GT4 would be awesome, but again two seater.

The M4 CS actually is a really fun good car, (I know turbos), but it would of been even more fun with a MT, MP HAS and better steel brakes standard. I'm sure the GTS is a riot, but again no manual and too extreme for people that need back seats etc. Also BMW effed up by originally way over pricing them so we'll see if they develop these same versions of the G series. BMWs sweet spot is a manual M2 comp now IMO and maybe M2 CS, but I'm guessing it will only come with a DCT.

So yeah, I can definitely see where you are coning fun as there are a lot of great cars out there, ut few truly interesting involving ones to drive. Especially at a non exotic price point.
FYI, M2cs has been confirmed with 6MT
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      10-23-2019, 05:51 AM   #58
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FYI, M2cs has been confirmed with 6MT
I just read that last night, that is very cool that BMW is doing that.
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      10-23-2019, 12:13 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by TurboSid View Post
My M4 lease is up and i'm going to take a break from BMW and revisit once the G80/82 are a couple years old.

I really hope they're not hideous.
See the leak today? Its our worst nightmare coming true.
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the wheels make me mad...
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It's one thing for some buffoon to put an M badge on something that doesn't deserve it...it's another for a multi-billion dollar corporation to do the exact same thing and keep a straight face.
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      10-23-2019, 02:10 PM   #60
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FYI, M2cs has been confirmed with 6MT
I hope they don’t nerf it with PSS commuter tires like the USA m4cs and m3cs
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      10-23-2019, 03:36 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbennettksu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboSid View Post
My M4 lease is up and i'm going to take a break from BMW and revisit once the G80/82 are a couple years old.

I really hope they're not hideous.
See the leak today? Its our worst nightmare coming true.
It's horrendous. I was banned for two weeks after the 4er concept came out and I "voiced" my opinion.

I guess trolling on Bimmerpost is hating a new design and making sure it's heard loud and clear. Anyway...

I won't be getting the new G8x in 2 years when my lease is up that is for sure. I really wanted to take my little guy on a BMW ED adventure for the next Gen but it's looking like that is a no go. Wife and I are most likely abandoning BMW when these leases are up. We are considering an AMG, Porsche and Audi for both of us. I'll be writing an extensive letter to BMW when the time comes.

Another option for us to to keep my current F82 ZCP and do an ED for a Merc for the wife as we have never been to Stuttgart.
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      10-23-2019, 04:56 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
It's horrendous. I was banned for two weeks after the 4er concept came out and I "voiced" my opinion.

I guess trolling on Bimmerpost is hating a new design and making sure it's heard loud and clear. Anyway...

I won't be getting the new G8x in 2 years when my lease is up that is for sure. I really wanted to take my little guy on a BMW ED adventure for the next Gen but it's looking like that is a no go. Wife and I are most likely abandoning BMW when these leases are up. We are considering an AMG, Porsche and Audi for both of us. I'll be writing an extensive letter to BMW when the time comes.

Another option for us to to keep my current F82 ZCP and do an ED for a Merc for the wife as we have never been to Stuttgart.
Currently in the same predicament... In 2018 it was a toss-up for me on ordering a C63 or M4. Glad I got the M4.

Given the currently known details and pictures of the G80, I decided that I'm going with a C63 when my lease is up. I was content with this decision for weeks. But then of course the article comes out stating it will feature a 4-banger hybrid motor. Absolutely crazy. At least BMW isn't pulling this type of sh*t. https://www.motor1.com/news/376855/n...four-cylinder/

So at this point -- although its early and things can change (i.e. G80 opinion) -- it's looking like Pcar for me. I genuinely don't know what other route to go... not that I'm complaining. I definitely won't consider an RS Audi nor the new C63. Audi's are just way too lame nowadays. I saw the new S4 on the road and my friend jokingly commented that it's a Jetta. Spot on. The RS5 would be another level entirely, but it still would leave a lot to be desired.

Last edited by Tall Tom Cruise; 10-29-2019 at 04:59 PM..
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      10-24-2019, 05:52 AM   #63
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I think I will keep my e90 as dd since it is still more than fast enough on the street and get gt3 in 2-3y once I save up enough for the next level.

Not digging new designs and all the electronic gremlins and don't want to spend $60k on dd
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      10-24-2019, 08:49 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
It's horrendous. I was banned for two weeks after the 4er concept came out and I "voiced" my opinion.

I guess trolling on Bimmerpost is hating a new design and making sure it's heard loud and clear. Anyway...

I won't be getting the new G8x in 2 years when my lease is up that is for sure. I really wanted to take my little guy on a BMW ED adventure for the next Gen but it's looking like that is a no go. Wife and I are most likely abandoning BMW when these leases are up. We are considering an AMG, Porsche and Audi for both of us. I'll be writing an extensive letter to BMW when the time comes.

Another option for us to to keep my current F82 ZCP and do an ED for a Merc for the wife as we have never been to Stuttgart.
I'm with you bro, on all accounts. I bought my f80, so I'll likely keep it, work on it and build it; my kids 1.5 and he calls it dada's vroom vroom. I tried to keep one of my old e46's like that, but I just loved the f80 so much I sold my last e46. I will NOT be going G80 with those god damn grills; and I've been a M3 fan boy for 15 years.

When we were shopping for baby haulers, we looked at the new x3 (x3m wasnt out) and it was really vanilla for what you got at the time, so she went with the Q5. I'm not in love with it, but whatever. It is nice, drives nice, but the infotainment system is annoying, or I'm just used to BMW

I am thinking C63 next, but I hate how boring the colors are, I have a purple m3 now, lol, last one was Austin Yellow, and a Phoneix Yellow and Imola Red E46 before. I like the RS5 sport back, and love you can do the paint to sample like the P cars, or BMW's individual, but that thing was like 95k by the time I had it like I would want. Who knows. Glad they unbanned you
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the wheels make me mad...
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Originally Posted by mhabs View Post
It's one thing for some buffoon to put an M badge on something that doesn't deserve it...it's another for a multi-billion dollar corporation to do the exact same thing and keep a straight face.
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      10-25-2019, 07:36 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by nbennettksu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
It's horrendous. I was banned for two weeks after the 4er concept came out and I "voiced" my opinion.

I guess trolling on Bimmerpost is hating a new design and making sure it's heard loud and clear. Anyway...

I won't be getting the new G8x in 2 years when my lease is up that is for sure. I really wanted to take my little guy on a BMW ED adventure for the next Gen but it's looking like that is a no go. Wife and I are most likely abandoning BMW when these leases are up. We are considering an AMG, Porsche and Audi for both of us. I'll be writing an extensive letter to BMW when the time comes.

Another option for us to to keep my current F82 ZCP and do an ED for a Merc for the wife as we have never been to Stuttgart.
I'm with you bro, on all accounts. I bought my f80, so I'll likely keep it, work on it and build it; my kids 1.5 and he calls it dada's vroom vroom. I tried to keep one of my old e46's like that, but I just loved the f80 so much I sold my last e46. I will NOT be going G80 with those god damn grills; and I've been a M3 fan boy for 15 years.

When we were shopping for baby haulers, we looked at the new x3 (x3m wasnt out) and it was really vanilla for what you got at the time, so she went with the Q5. I'm not in love with it, but whatever. It is nice, drives nice, but the infotainment system is annoying, or I'm just used to BMW

I am thinking C63 next, but I hate how boring the colors are, I have a purple m3 now, lol, last one was Austin Yellow, and a Phoneix Yellow and Imola Red E46 before. I like the RS5 sport back, and love you can do the paint to sample like the P cars, or BMW's individual, but that thing was like 95k by the time I had it like I would want. Who knows. Glad they unbanned you
Thanks man. Some of the people that "run" this forum don't like negative opinions about how BMWs direction is headed for the future. All opinions should be welcomed as far as I'm concerned especially from someone like me that has had a multitude of BMWs and been to Munich for ED on 4 occasions. Whatever. If they want to silence people for voicing their displeasure it's their prerogative. The new design is still shit whether I'm saying it or the hundreds upon hundreds of other posters are saying it.

The wife and I have a "vanilla" X3 4 banger for baby duty right now (Our little guy is 1 Y/O). It's our 1st SUV and it's ok but not great. Wife likes the higher up driving position. Me not so much. We are most likely leaving the brand after these leases are up. To be honest when I walk into a BMW dealership there is nothing that I even remotely want except for maybe an M2cs or another F82. In 2 and half years there will be nothing.
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      10-25-2019, 08:54 PM   #66
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Thanks man. Some of the people that "run" this forum don't like negative opinions about how BMWs direction is headed for the future. All opinions should be welcomed as far as I'm concerned especially from someone like me that has had a multitude of BMWs and been to Munich for ED on 4 occasions. Whatever. If they want to silence people for voicing their displeasure it's their prerogative. The new design is still shit whether I'm saying it or the hundreds upon hundreds of other posters are saying it.

The wife and I have a "vanilla" X3 4 banger for baby duty right now (Our little guy is 1 Y/O). It's our 1st SUV and it's ok but not great. Wife likes the higher up driving position. Me not so much. We are most likely leaving the brand after these leases are up. To be honest when I walk into a BMW dealership there is nothing that I even remotely want except for maybe an M2cs or another F82. In 2 and half years there will be nothing.
I said it on my IG post and I'll say it again, this is what a lot of us are afraid of.

But the problem is, as minn19 already put it, if sales go well for these cars with this ugly Alfa Romeo esque front design then they won't stop changing it. The way I see it is, a major company like this won't get the hint until they see the damage in their sales figures, that is the only way to tell BMW and that dumb ass of a design team thinking this is a good idea.

If Porsche did something insane like changing the entire 911 design up for the 993, they will get absolute trashed by everyone. I don't think we, as BMW M fans, is making enough of a noise for BMW to rethink. But, at least with the 4er side is concerned, they are doomed or would like it.

My next car would be a 911 or 718 at this point. It's already set in my head, my decision is whether I can keep my M3 or not because I am definitely won't be touching the G80/G82 at this point. Losing the M-DCT already is a big no for me, going down this front end design is a hell no.

I can bitch a lot about Porsche (and believe me I have a lot to complain about) but at least they have the decency to not change up such an iconic design for mainstream sale purposes.

The utter irony of all of this is, I don't mind the X3M or the X4M. Both are SUVs for fuck sakes. What does that tell you about BMW's direction?
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