ARMA SPEED
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-30-2013, 10:01 AM   #23
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
2475
Rep
13,135
Posts

Drives: 2025 Countryman S, 2024 i4 M50
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by glockperfect View Post
I am not usually one to weigh in on the new M3, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in the 415-hp projections, especially after initial projections were in the 450 hp range.
I still believe that the final number will be much more closer to 450hp than the 420hp. It is just inevitable just for the increased price alone that this sucker will have.
Appreciate 0
      07-30-2013, 11:19 AM   #24
executor
New Member
0
Rep
18
Posts

Drives: BMW x6 35i 2013
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by glockperfect View Post
I am not usually one to weigh in on the new M3, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in the 415-hp projections, especially after initial projections were in the 450 hp range.
+1
Not only comparing to its competitors, but also a regular 50i car gets almost 450 hp for the latest V8TwinTurbo engine from BMW itself. If the M3, as a true M car, can't even get to this point, I'd be a little disappointed.
I know it's not all about the HP, but I don't want to see some comment like "producing 414 hp with just a 6 cylinder engine is amazing". BMW, you have already dropped 2 cylinders, that means you have to convince us with this I6 to be much more powerful than the current V8. It doesn't means you can make excuse of not making any improvement on power. Come on! BMW.
Appreciate 0
      07-30-2013, 06:34 PM   #25
MCoupeInsanity
Lieutenant
MCoupeInsanity's Avatar
74
Rep
569
Posts

Drives: cars
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
It will absolutely trounce the E92 M3, but it will do so because it will have more peak hp combined with less weight, completely independent of how much torque it makes.
My point was that torque is satisfying to the butt dyno. Trounce in subjective levels of enjoyment when mashing the rightmost pedal.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2013, 12:11 AM   #26
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
643
Rep
10,404
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCoupeInsanity View Post
My point was that torque is satisfying to the butt dyno. Trounce in subjective levels of enjoyment when mashing the rightmost pedal.
Crank torque is truly meaningless. Wheel force is meaningful (directly related to wheel torque by wheel radius) and is something one can actually feel. But then even that is not quite right, what we feel is acceleration which is force divided by vehicle mass. Back at the beginning of this "train" the only way to determine wheel torque is with knowledge of the gearing. hp is basically a way to describe the combined effects of gearing and crank torque. However, it is typically true that high torque and low power engines have gears which enable good acceleration in a much higher gear than the ideal gear for a given speed.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2013, 12:48 AM   #27
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
643
Rep
10,404
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Oh? Surely a competitor with a 400hp+ Cummins turbo diesel putting out 800 ft-lb of torque could bury both an E92 M3 and F82 swamp. Right? I mean all that torque must mean something for performance, no?

Nope, it wouldn't.

Despite adjusting the gearing (through final drive) and redline, doubling the torque (say from 300 to 600 ft lb) has nearly no impact on overall performance. However maintaining a 8000 or 8000+ redline would be pretty much impossible, perhaps 6000 or 7000 is even mathematically possible. Such a car would then reach around 400 hp way down at about half of the current actual cars redline!

Either way the cars 1/4 mile time and trap (compared to a regular M3) would be within a few tenths and a couple mph. The torque monster could, depending on the final drive ration get a decent jump on the actual car perhaps below about 50 mph (if traction was even possible). Most other major performance metrics would be very similar. Also the torque monster could do in 6th gear that the real car would need to begin in 3rd, but they would achieve about the same net result.

Why is all this the case, again simply because the cars would have the same (peak) power to weight ratio.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2013, 08:06 AM   #28
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7544
Rep
19,368
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Nope, it wouldn't.
I appreciate the explanation, but it was meant to be light sarcasm (hence the smiley). I guess it was a bit too dry.
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2013, 09:24 PM   #29
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
643
Rep
10,404
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I appreciate the explanation, but it was meant to be light sarcasm (hence the smiley). I guess it was a bit too dry.
I thought light prodding/contrariness as opposed to light sarcasm. The example is useful to think about in term of how little crank torque actually matters.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2013, 01:39 PM   #30
RMB
Captain
RMB's Avatar
226
Rep
674
Posts

Drives: 2025 BMW M2 pending
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
I still believe that the final number will be much more closer to 450hp than the 420hp. It is just inevitable just for the increased price alone that this sucker will have.
+1

Must have more hp and tq. Must have lighter weight. If can achieve this, then time for beers!
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2013, 10:47 PM   #31
mxa121
Major
mxa121's Avatar
226
Rep
1,064
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (3)

With the probability of this competition package coming in year two, does this make any of you skeptical on buying first year?

(for me it makes no difference, I would be trying to keep the price down with few options and I believe the base model will be plenty impressive.)
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2013, 03:40 AM   #32
GreenLantern
Lieutenant
GreenLantern's Avatar
United_States
104
Rep
489
Posts

Drives: 991.2 GT3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Palm Springs, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxa121 View Post
With the probability of this competition package coming in year two, does this make any of you skeptical on buying first year?
Year two? Likely too soon based on recent introductions of the Competition Pkg. I'd wager it'll come with the LCI.
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2013, 06:01 AM   #33
Maddict3
Major
Maddict3's Avatar
196
Rep
1,292
Posts

Drives: 2015 991 GT3
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Miami

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCoupeInsanity View Post
People griping about the 415hp number will shut up when they sit in it and experience that turbo torque. It's going to trounce the E92.
From my understanding its not official yet exactly how much HP the M4 will have.

I doubt it will be 415hp, i'd say more in the range of 430-450 unless it was confrimed already.
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2013, 06:28 AM   #34
medgabeh
Registered
medgabeh's Avatar
0
Rep
4
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 335i 6speed
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

An extra 15 or so horsepower shouldn't be that noticeable when you're talking about a number that's already over 400. I still plan on getting one regardless...
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2013, 06:54 PM   #35
mxa121
Major
mxa121's Avatar
226
Rep
1,064
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern View Post
Year two? Likely too soon based on recent introductions of the Competition Pkg. I'd wager it'll come with the LCI.
recent comp package for M5 is a 2014 option. US got the f10 m5 as a 2013 model. That is why I thought year two.
Plus, the LCI for the f30 should be around 2015.
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2013, 07:25 PM   #36
GreenLantern
Lieutenant
GreenLantern's Avatar
United_States
104
Rep
489
Posts

Drives: 991.2 GT3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Palm Springs, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxa121 View Post
recent comp package for M5 is a 2014 option. US got the f10 m5 as a 2013 model. That is why I thought year two.
Plus, the LCI for the f30 should be around 2015.
Ah, yes, indeed. I didn't calculate that it was two years for the M5 LCI (2014).
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2013, 10:45 AM   #37
abcdkv
Enlisted Member
abcdkv's Avatar
United_States
1
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: F02, E89
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

It will definitely be disappointing if BMW doesn't increase HP for the M4. I would expect it to be around 450, and a competition package to add few more.

The only question is when.
__________________
Current: 2011 E89 Z4, 2011 F02 740Li, 2010 Nissan GT-R, 2008 Lamborghini Gallardo.
Gone: 2001 E46 M3, 2006 E60 M5, 2007 E63 M6, 2008 E93 M3, 2005 Mercedes SLK, 2010 Porsche Boxster, 2011 Ford Mustang GT/CS, 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera, 2010 Land Rover Range Rover Sport
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2013, 01:11 PM   #38
Wolfinwolfsclothing
Banned
37
Rep
1,312
Posts

Drives: E92 ///M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: B-roads

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos_Danger View Post
Maybe 1-2 years later ala M5 and M6, but really as it is,
that car doesnt need a comp package at all
IDK. I really love the comp pack. Just the wheels alone on my e46 m3 comp and e92 m3 comp set off the car better than the non comp e46 m3 i had and the non comp e92 m3 i had. I prefer the two comp pack cars over the others. Who knows, comp pack on the f82 might be more than just wider wheels and slightly lower stance.
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2013, 01:18 PM   #39
duk
///M
United_States
176
Rep
3,191
Posts

Drives: 2011 AW/FR 6MT E92
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Irvine, CA

iTrader: (0)

99.9% sure it will
__________________
2011.5 AW/FR E92 M3 6MT
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2013, 01:33 PM   #40
Transfer
Major General
Transfer's Avatar
5302
Rep
5,875
Posts

Drives: Bronco Wildtrak, Tesla MYP
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Issaquah, WA

iTrader: (1)

Comp pack will be there but who knows when. For me, I would not buy without LCI and comp pack. That always adds so much and I don't need to be an early adopter. I bet LCI after 2 years and comp pack probably at the same time if not available at launch.
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2013, 01:48 PM   #41
Wolfinwolfsclothing
Banned
37
Rep
1,312
Posts

Drives: E92 ///M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: B-roads

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Comp pack will be there but who knows when. For me, I would not buy without LCI and comp pack. That always adds so much and I don't need to be an early adopter. I bet LCI after 2 years and comp pack probably at the same time if not available at launch.
Agree on LED tails too. I dont know how they can get away with not offering them right off the bat!
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2013, 11:48 PM   #42
GOLFFRR
GOLFFRR's Avatar
11193
Rep
27,962
Posts

Drives: GOLFFRR cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: we sell BMWs to "ALL" US states

iTrader: (4)

There in the business to make money. there will always be something new and cool on its way out. you can't keep up!
__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, EMAIL OUR GUY KOTE FIRST!
Kote M Sales:Kotem@bmwofcamarillo.com Cell:805-368-9101
vipfinance@bmwofcamarillo.com for warranties!
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 02:12 AM   #43
paddy335
Major
66
Rep
1,131
Posts

Drives: M140i;X5 40d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Are led tail lights lighter or something? Why does it matter what they are?
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 01:16 PM   #44
gee-m-w
First Lieutenant
gee-m-w's Avatar
77
Rep
348
Posts

Drives: S4
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl L View Post
I wish we could all say "no" to these power packs. So what is the launch or standard car, half baked? The 15bhp increase on the F10 M5 was a joke and a sad result of the huge profit AMG makes from such tactics.

During the LCI I used to look forward to the small tweaks that came with the CS edition, especially as the changes (in the case of the E46 especially) were based on improvements 4 years of release showed the car needed, and also a little more visual heft with the drop and wider wheels. But a power boost for anything other than the much more exotic CSL or GTS variant is tacky and a slap in the face for early adopters given that an M3, or M5, should have full power from the start.

Were it available from launch (not a 100% impossibility, how can one know?) which is highly unlikely, I'd have to look at the numbers and decide if i wanted it. Were it like the M5s, I'd pass, and that's from someone who usually ticks almost every option box imaginable like a true victim of marketing.
$7300 is crazy for exhaust note and a 2.x% power bump.
Appreciate 0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
2014 bmw m3, 2014 bmw m3 horsepower, 2014 bmw m3 specs, 2014 bmw m4 horsepower, 2014 bmw m4 specs, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 engine, 2014 m3 forum, 2014 m3 horsepower, 2014 m3 hp, 2014 m3 specs, 2014 m3 weight, 2014 m4 engine, 2014 m4 horsepower, 2014 m4 hp, 2014 m4 specs, 2014 m4 weight, 2015 bmw m3, 2015 bmw m3 specs, 2015 bmw m4, 2015 bmw m4 specs, 2015 m3, 2015 m3 engine, 2015 m3 specs, 2015 m4, 2015 m4 engine, 2015 m4 hp, 2015 m4 specs, 2015 m4 weight, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 s55, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m3 forum, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f82 m4 s55, bmw f82 m4 video, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m3 forum, bmw m3 forums, bmw m3 s55, bmw m3 s55 engine, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 forums, f80, f80 forum, f80 forums, f80 m3, f80 m3 competition package, f80 m3 forum, f80 m3 forums, f80 m3 sedan, f80 m3 zcp, f82, f82 coupe, f82 forum, f82 forums, f82 m3, f82 m3 coupe, f82 m3 forum, f82 m4, f82 m4 competition package, f82 m4 coupe, f82 m4 forum, f82 m4 forums, f82 m4 zcp, f83 m3, f83 m4, m forum, m forums, m3 f80, m3 f80 forum, m3 f80 forums, m4 competition package, m4 forum, m4 forums, m4 zcp

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:22 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST