Pandora Car Alarm System
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > M3/M4 versus...

View Poll Results: S65 option or S55 standart ?
YES ... I would choose the S65 if an option at this price would be availiable 93 45.81%
NO ... I would choose the standart S55 engine 110 54.19%
Voters: 203. You may not vote on this poll

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-13-2013, 09:24 AM   #1
A418t81
Lieutenant Colonel
379
Rep
1,535
Posts

Drives: Ever changing fleet
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alabama

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2013 335is  [0.00]
S55 vs. S65

The S55 will be very overbuilt. It was designed from the ground up to be turbocharged and should not be compared to the S65 which has been proven to be a weak motor relatively speaking. The E46 M3 engine was stronger than the S65 even. The N54 already supports 700+ whp without issue on the stock components and I can assure you that the internals of the S55 are stronger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
Who would choose an F8x M3/M4 with an S65 (~ 440PS / 435Nm) over an F8x M3/M4 with the standart S55 (431PS / 550Nm) if this engine swap was possible by BMW Individual for ~ 7.500 - 10.000€ (including the M-DCT of the E9x M3!).
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2013, 03:09 PM   #2
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
643
Rep
10,404
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
the S65 which has been proven to be a weak motor relatively speaking.
Rubbish. Provide your "claim" and evidence to the guys pushing 700+ crank hp with supercharged E92s and running them hard. Heck even the stock DCT transmission is taking this kind of extreme power and torque
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2013, 03:27 PM   #3
Jockey
Major General
Jockey's Avatar
3548
Rep
5,003
Posts

Drives: 2024 C2S
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Park City, UT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
What do you even know about S65? Do you own a car with one?
Well consider you keep using that as reference, you should stop making unsubstantiated comments about what the S55 can handle since, according to you, you can only make an informed opinion if you own a car with the engine.

And since you don't own a car with an S55, stop talking.
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2013, 06:06 PM   #4
A418t81
Lieutenant Colonel
379
Rep
1,535
Posts

Drives: Ever changing fleet
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alabama

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2013 335is  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
What do you even know about S65? Do you own a car with one?
No, I choose to own cars with engines that make enough power that I find them amusing. 420 crank hp at eye-watering RPM and <300 ft/lbs doesn't cut it for me. I like torque, and turbos, which has been the only part the M3 has been missing for me until now (and why I have chosen to keep a modded 335 for my street daily driver).

Swamp, the S65 is weak relative to other M motors BMW has produced, and the N54 as well. The S54 and N54 have been proven to make 700+ whp reliably. A 600 whp S65 appears to be a time bomb. Yes, I see them...but I also see them blow up. A 700 whp stock S65 would maybe last for a single pull. There has yet to be a single engine failure with a a single turbo powered N54 over 600 whp and obviously the E46 M3s are well documented in their power-making abilities.

You S65 guys might as well start getting it out of your systems, but the F8X M3 is going to decimate any performance records the E9X chassis M3 has set, just like the E46 and E36 platforms did as well. Mark my words. An inline 6 architecture with an overbuilt engine and drivetrain is the perfect platform for making as much power as you want. I'm bookmarking this thread so I can use it for crow-eating purposes down the road
__________________
23 IOMG G80 CX, 23 iX M60, 24 GT3RS PTS Weissach, 24 RS E-tron GT

Last edited by A418t81; 12-13-2013 at 06:13 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2013, 06:21 PM   #5
biglare
Bulldog
biglare's Avatar
United_States
485
Rep
3,355
Posts

Drives: BMW & Porsche
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ?

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Rubbish. Provide your "claim" and evidence to the guys pushing 700+ crank hp with supercharged E92s and running them hard. Heck even the stock DCT transmission is taking this kind of extreme power and torque
+1
__________________
Prev: Individual F80 M3 - Fjord Blue/Silverstone(interior) | Fashion Grey(exterior)

GTS
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2013, 09:27 PM   #6
biglare
Bulldog
biglare's Avatar
United_States
485
Rep
3,355
Posts

Drives: BMW & Porsche
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ?

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
These 335 guys never get old...
Exactly.........
__________________
Prev: Individual F80 M3 - Fjord Blue/Silverstone(interior) | Fashion Grey(exterior)

GTS
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 12:40 AM   #7
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
643
Rep
10,404
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
the S65 is weak relative to other M motors BMW has produced, and the N54 as well. The S54 and N54 have been proven to make 700+ whp reliably. A 600 whp S65 appears to be a time bomb. Yes, I see them...but I also see them blow up. A 700 whp stock S65 would maybe last for a single pull. There has yet to be a single engine failure with a a single turbo powered N54 over 600 whp and obviously the E46 M3s are well documented in their power-making abilities.
Again rubbish.

There are many folks running 600-700 hp E9X M3s. The only weak links uncovered thus far are a very low percentage of cars with rod bearing problems (perhaps translating to a rod problem). These failures have been seen in FI cars but also in completely stock cars with <20k miles. And I guess if you call a clutch designed for 400 hp a "weak link" when running 700 hp then yes that is another weak link. I've read first hand account of 100s of drag strip runs in S65s at this power level. Nothing but rock solid reliability.

Read this particular thread about a high mileage long lasting nearly 800 hp E92 M3. Link.

Although I haven't followed the S54/N54/N55 tuning scene very carefully, I've heard plenty about various problems in these motors even without significantly more power than stock. The S54 also suffered from a bearing problem. That one though was admitted by BMW (the E9X one has not been). What about the fuel pump in the N54? What about the plethora of cooling issue and limp mode problems when N54/N55 are run hard at the track? No such stories for the S65.

Although I cannot definitively and objectively with NUMBERS prove that the S65 is more reliable when running significantly more power than stock than the S54/N54/N55, similarly you can't prove the S65 offers terrible reliability. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

I am especially incredulous regarding the bold part above. How many dumbasses out there go for nothing but power and sacrifice all costs needed to improve reliability (most often cooling). When this approach is taken it is asking for failure with any motor. Just becuase you haven't been able to find such a case certainly does not mean one does not exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
You S65 guys might as well start getting it out of your systems, but the F8X M3 is going to decimate any performance records the E9X chassis M3 has set, just like the E46 and E36 platforms did as well. Mark my words. An inline 6 architecture with an overbuilt engine and drivetrain is the perfect platform for making as much power as you want. I'm bookmarking this thread so I can use it for crow-eating purposes down the road
Bookmark away. My statements have ZERO to due with what car I own. My car is producing minimally more power than stock.

If the S55 can be tuned to close to 800 crank hp then yes it will trounce existing modded M3s. It's only about power...

By the way there are 3 M3s faster in 60-130 than the fastest 335i...

List M3, list 335i
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 01:09 AM   #8
Savory
Kaskasero
Savory's Avatar
55
Rep
345
Posts

Drives: You Insane
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Azusa, Ca

iTrader: (0)

How did this become a S65 vs N54 thread?! I feel like we're on E90 post lol! We all know what the S65 and N54 can do on their respectable platforms, and they both can put out outrageous numbers. I think the M3/M4 are the wrong cars to expect these numbers from.
__________________
Rides:
BSM E53 X5 3.0i | Mods: 4.8is Style 168 wheels
1996 MB C280 Sport
2001 E39 M5
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 01:24 AM   #9
ixse
Major
240
Rep
1,022
Posts

Drives: 2015 boxster s
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

its all the e9x fanboys that try so hard to defend their joy and pride.. i understand.. just give it some time.. it will sink in.. lol
Appreciate 1
      12-14-2013, 06:20 AM   #10
RingMeister01
Croatian
RingMeister01's Avatar
No_Country
893
Rep
3,613
Posts

Drives: PORSCHE
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
__________________
NARDO GREY '18 PANAMERA TURBO
Ducati V4 S Corse (track only)
Husqvarna FS450 (track only)
Looking for an SUV
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 07:08 AM   #11
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
8970
Rep
7,865
Posts

Drives: HS M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
Gimme some

Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 11:20 AM   #12
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
643
Rep
10,404
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ixse View Post
its all the e9x fanboys that try so hard to defend their joy and pride.. i understand.. just give it some time.. it will sink in.. lol
Seems to me this particular part of the discussion actually started with a 335 fan falsely criticizing the durability of the S65 under high power modification. I've never had a shred of doubt about the new M3/4 drastically eclipsing the current M3, that's what happens when you combine an entire generation of changes with less weight and more power. Anyway, I'm certainly a big s65 and E9x fan but sorry fanboy I aint.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 12:16 PM   #13
BMW M3 CRT
Lieutenant
BMW M3 CRT's Avatar
179
Rep
464
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
Swamp, the S65 is weak relative to other M motors BMW has produced, and the N54 as well. The S54 and N54 have been proven to make 700+ whp reliably. A 600 whp S65 appears to be a time bomb. Yes, I see them...but I also see them blow up. A 700 whp stock S65 would maybe last for a single pull. There has yet to be a single engine failure with a a single turbo powered N54 over 600 whp and obviously the E46 M3s are well documented in their power-making abilities.
Oh my god ... what a BS !!!

Do you really mean, that you are properly informed about BMW engines !?

Its really common sence, that the only two engines with known greater issues were the two 54er, the BMW AG N54 and the M-GmbH S54 ... especially the S65 engine has no really known issues.
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 05:30 PM   #14
Ezio
Brigadier General
Ezio's Avatar
United_States
389
Rep
3,932
Posts

Drives: 2023 Alfa Romeo, 2023 m240i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
No, I choose to own cars with engines that make enough power that I find them amusing. 420 crank hp at eye-watering RPM and <300 ft/lbs doesn't cut it for me. I like torque, and turbos, which has been the only part the M3 has been missing for me until now (and why I have chosen to keep a modded 335 for my street daily driver).

Swamp, the S65 is weak relative to other M motors BMW has produced, and the N54 as well. The S54 and N54 have been proven to make 700+ whp reliably. A 600 whp S65 appears to be a time bomb. Yes, I see them...but I also see them blow up. A 700 whp stock S65 would maybe last for a single pull. There has yet to be a single engine failure with a a single turbo powered N54 over 600 whp and obviously the E46 M3s are well documented in their power-making abilities.

You S65 guys might as well start getting it out of your systems, but the F8X M3 is going to decimate any performance records the E9X chassis M3 has set, just like the E46 and E36 platforms did as well. Mark my words. An inline 6 architecture with an overbuilt engine and drivetrain is the perfect platform for making as much power as you want. I'm bookmarking this thread so I can use it for crow-eating purposes down the road
couple things i wanna touch here with you.

first of all. there is nothing like taking a high revving motor with a exhaust through the gears while listening to the engine just scream. ever driven a Ferrari before ? go drive one and get back into your modded 335i with a I6 engine. you will find the car lacks in sound and special feel. i think you shouldn't just brush off the S65 like you do. there is still something special there. as a guy who loves the S65, i can still respect modded M4s and 335is for the power. and you should respect the S65 for the sound and high revving nature. both are "cool" in there own way.

honestly have you been around a lot of cars ? like at meets and stuff? do you find your 335i to be a really good sounding motor ? (honest question)

to me if i was going to mod. i would go grab a corvette. make more power cheaper. not to mention the sound.
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 05:38 PM   #15
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1742
Rep
5,110
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
couple things i wanna touch here with you.

first of all. there is nothing like taking a high revving motor with a exhaust through the gears while listening to the engine just scream. ever driven a Ferrari before ? go drive one and get back into your modded 335i with a I6 engine. you will find the car lacks in sound and special feel. i think you shouldn't just brush off the S65 like you do. there is still something special there. as a guy who loves the S65, i can still respect modded M4s and 335is for the power. and you should respect the S65 for the sound and high revving nature. both are "cool" in there own way.

honestly have you been around a lot of cars ? like at meets and stuff? do you find your 335i to be a really good sounding motor ? (honest question)

to me if i was going to mod. i would go grab a corvette. make more power cheaper. not to mention the sound.
I agree on the different characters and pros and cons of turbo vs NA.

But I would NEVER choose a Corvette for the sound... Big lazy V8 sounding soundtrack does NOTHING for me on a modern performance car. A Ferrari V8, yes. F10 M5 with cross plane exhaust, yes. Corvette, no. I would choose a F8x with the S55 or a Nissan GT-R anyday over a "good old" V8 if I should make my choice based on sound characteristics

And, yes I think a car like the M135i with the performance exhaust sounds awesome Not as good on high rpm's as a E46 M3 though

Do you really think it's fair to compare the feel of a Ferrari with a 335i??? That's just as unfair as comparing a M5 with a Ferrari F12 or Aston Martin Vanquish, or a M3 with a 458 or Aston Vantage...

Last edited by Boss330; 12-14-2013 at 06:01 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 05:40 PM   #16
Jockey
Major General
Jockey's Avatar
3548
Rep
5,003
Posts

Drives: 2024 C2S
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Park City, UT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
you will find the car lacks in sound and special feel.
Because those aren't subjective at all.

Look, the S65 sounds great. The N54/55 sounds pretty good too (especially with the PE). They're two different exhaust notes.

The S65 isn't the best sounding engine in existence. It's up there though.
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 06:34 PM   #17
Ezio
Brigadier General
Ezio's Avatar
United_States
389
Rep
3,932
Posts

Drives: 2023 Alfa Romeo, 2023 m240i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
I agree on the different characters and pros and cons of turbo vs NA.

But I would NEVER choose a Corvette for the sound... Big lazy V8 sounding soundtrack does NOTHING for me on a modern performance car. A Ferrari V8, yes. F10 M5 with cross plane exhaust, yes. Corvette, no. I would choose a F8x with the S55 or a Nissan GT-R anyday over a "good old" V8 if I should make my choice based on sound characteristics

And, yes I think a car like the M135i with the performance exhaust sounds awesome Not as good on high rpm's as a E46 M3 though

Do you really think it's fair to compare the feel of a Ferrari with a 335i??? That's just as unfair as comparing a M5 with a Ferrari F12 or Aston Martin Vanquish, or a M3 with a 458 or Aston Vantage...
i think you are very educated with cars. and do respect your view points.

but you live in Europe and maybe grew up there also. i live in and grew up in the US. we are going to have different views on what sounds good. Americans because we are more exposed to different types of cars tend to lhave different views on engines. i know in Europe its hard to get some imported cars like mustangs and corvettes. to me i love the V8 growl. its loud and mean sounding. where a (I6)V6 is ricey and soft sounding.

of course not everyone sees this view. but just wanted to make this point as i feel me and you will ever see eye to eye on exhaust sound. for that reason.
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 06:43 PM   #18
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1742
Rep
5,110
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
i think you are very educated with cars. and do respect your view points.

but you live in Europe and maybe grew up there also. i live in and grew up in the US. we are going to have different views on what sounds good. Americans because we are more exposed to different types of cars tend to lhave different views on engines. i know in Europe its hard to get some imported cars like mustangs and corvettes. to me i love the V8 growl. its loud and mean sounding. where a (I6)V6 is ricey and soft sounding.

of course not everyone sees this view. but just wanted to make this point as i feel me and you will ever see eye to eye on exhaust sound. for that reason.
Exactly my point as well. But you made comments that seemed like everyone agreed that a V8 sounded better than a I6/V6. When in reality it's a subjective matter and depends on personal taste, cultural preferences and many other variables. Just like peoples taste in music...

Just like a 6 cyl sounds "ricey and soft" to you, so does a V8 to me, reminding me to much of a Chevy Van or a Suburban or a '80ies Trans Am... Not "mean" at all, just a lot of noise and no action

It was not a malicious comment from my side, just trying to voice that some actually prefer a different soundtrack

Last edited by Boss330; 12-14-2013 at 06:55 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 07:34 PM   #19
Penguino
Lieutenant Colonel
Penguino's Avatar
1661
Rep
1,620
Posts

Drives: A car.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Here

iTrader: (5)

Can we go back to the S65 for a moment and go over the tuning potential of this engine? You get 40whp-50whp FBO, that's it. There is nothing else you can do and you are lucky to break 400whp. Now, you can add a $10k SC kit and be around 500-550whp that's for sure.
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2013, 09:49 PM   #20
Thurman Murch
Lieutenant
Seychelles
62
Rep
499
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Island in the sun

iTrader: (0)

I own both a tuned S65 and tuned N55...

The S65 is prone to conrod problems... Even Gintani pointed this out
http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=361456
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635377

Some limiting factors of the S55/F8X:
Increased Cd over E9XM (solvable)
Reduced air intake volume (solvable)
Lack of proper FMIC

Some positives:
Forged crankshaft
Closed crankcase
Direct intercooling/shorter path (water cooler congests air flow?)
Not that complex-easy to fit bigger turbos
Better turbo bearings and cooling

I think it shouldn't be a problem to increase boost and timing and CR... to what degree remains to be seen

I think it's easier to track the S65 because of the throttle dynamics - it's easier to modulate power... The N54T cars didn't have the right brakes and downforce to contain the power

The one thing I notice is the N55 has more power on top than top then bottom...but in comparing to my old N54T and S63 and merging all my thoughts... I think the F8X will fly up to 130mph not sure if it has the up top lungs of the S65 though but could be fixed with more air but this could be a taper of boost for the 155 limiter

Is there a way to modify the accelerator pedal to allow valvetronic to open faster?
Appreciate 0
      12-15-2013, 01:28 AM   #21
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
8970
Rep
7,865
Posts

Drives: HS M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

I love this thread. Especially when people start to compare Ferrari flatplane/drysump V8 engines to the crossplane non dry sump S65.





Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 0
      12-15-2013, 01:34 AM   #22
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
8970
Rep
7,865
Posts

Drives: HS M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

Come to think of it. How many carmanufacturers produce crossplane/flatplane V8 engines these days?

And how many produce straight six engines?

Rhetorical question. Nothing to do with tuning, just saying.

Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2014 bmw m3, 2014 bmw m3 horsepower, 2014 bmw m3 specs, 2014 bmw m4 horsepower, 2014 bmw m4 specs, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 engine, 2014 m3 forum, 2014 m3 horsepower, 2014 m3 hp, 2014 m3 specs, 2014 m3 weight, 2014 m4 engine, 2014 m4 horsepower, 2014 m4 hp, 2014 m4 specs, 2014 m4 weight, 2015 bmw m3, 2015 bmw m3 specs, 2015 bmw m4, 2015 bmw m4 specs, 2015 m3, 2015 m3 engine, 2015 m3 specs, 2015 m4, 2015 m4 engine, 2015 m4 hp, 2015 m4 specs, 2015 m4 weight, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 s55, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f82 m4 s55, bmw f82 m4 video, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m3 forum, bmw m3 forums, bmw m3 s55, bmw m3 s55 engine, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 forums, bmw m4 horsepower, bmw m4 hp, bmw m4 redline, bmw m4 rev limit, bmw m4 rev limiter, bmw m4 weight, f80 m3, f82 m4

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:08 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST