bootmod3 for BMW F series Vehicles - General Discussion

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by Glowin

Wow, amazing stuff! A few questions:

1 - Please excuse my ignorance, but if a dealer flashes your car's software, does the tune get overwritten, and would it need to be flashed again?


2 - When going to a dealer, I assume that it is advised to switch back to the Stock map, but even with that, is there anything that can show up in their computers showing you are tuned? Or that the ECU has been unlocked?


3 - I've been around the E9x platform since almost the beginning, and have had both a piggyback on my car, and then moved on to being Cobb 2+ tuned.

I recall how BMW eventually coded into the ECU's hidden codes to go off based on certain parameters being exceeded, that would hint at the car being tuned, and hence flagging the customer's car for warranty purposes. And then the tuners figured out ways of not triggering those codes.

What is the situation with these cars? I mean, are there codes being triggered and being suppressed, or no one has yet seen any being triggered?

1. Yes

2. I don't recommend you flash back to stock map before dealer visits, flashing back to stock will trigger a "DME Manipulated" code. This tells them that your ECU has been unlocked/tuned etc. I would just take it in with the BM3 Tune that code will not show up that way.

3. There has been lots of talk and hearsay about such things that BMW has made with the latest software updates, not sure if anything is confirmed though. Last time I took my car to the dealership was in November and no one mentioned a thing about my tune.

[hexone]

I love this flash, but a feature request that I would like is the option to do a complete valve open rather than adopting the OEM settings that causes the flap to close at 3rd gear +. This may just be an issue with stock exhaust.

Anyone else that would like this feature implemented?

[Glowin]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

1. Yes

2. I don't recommend you flash back to stock map before dealer visits, flashing back to stock will trigger a "DME Manipulated" code. This tells them that your ECU has been unlocked/tuned etc. I would just take it in with the BM3 Tune that code will not show up that way.

3. There has been lots of talk and hearsay about such things that BMW has made with the latest software updates, not sure if anything is confirmed though. Last time I took my car to the dealership was in November and no one mentioned a thing about my tune.

Thanks for the insight. I asked similar questions in the HEX thread also, as that's the other tune I'm considering, and got somewhat different answers...

This is what the other poster said, edited for brevity:

Originally Posted by packetpilot

One: It's my understanding that it's advised to NOT let a dealer update your software(/I-STEP). Since crypto data is swapped out, and not simply added in some non-destructive way (from what I understand anyway), there's a high likelihood that a dealership may not even be *able* to update your DME, without first either replacing it with a virgin one, or carrying out the steps to virginize it. (You'd have to pay out-of-pocket for either, since this isn't simply some warranty-able problem.)

Two: Yes, there are codes that do show up; I've seen them myself on customers' and friends' cars. I'll abstain from going into greater detail than that.

Three: well beyond my scope, but I can say that there are various "tiers" of "hidden" codes, e.g. codes that only show up in ISTA (diagnostic software in use by shops during all service visits), as well as information (not necessarily 'codes' per se) that reside in FASTA data, and are transferred via ISTA once the "vehicle test" routine is carried out (the first routine that ISTA performs upon connecting to a vehicle).

Is it because BM3 works differently? Or that perhaps someone's understanding of the nuances isn't totally accurate?


And my thoughts on it are:

I think tuners should be transparent with this stuff and come right out and deal with it in their FAQ's, since it's going to be one of the key concerns for people in warranty, and then they can make an informed decision as to the cost/benefit, and how much risk they're willing to take, if it ever comes down to having a warranty issue.

We knew that stuff pretty clearly back in the E9x platform days, and everyone made their own decision as to the type of tune they got, and what they did when going in for service. Some didn't bother removing their piggybacks when going in, some like me, were super careful and did so even for an oil change to take zero chances.

I've had my car flashed by the dealer over the years when I wasn't expecting it, so I would always uninstall my Cobb tune to be safe. If it's true that should they flash your car, issues can come up, it's pretty scary. Notes aren't always reviewed, and a tech can easily miss that note. Plus, intentionally telling them not to ever flash your car without permission to me is the biggest red flag. So I guess at that point, I might as well just be up front and tell them that I've got a tune on the car... Bummer.

This isn't the place to ask maybe, but any ideas if codes pop up with piggys too?

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by Glowin

Plus, intentionally telling them not to ever flash your car without permission to me is the biggest red flag.

If you're not willing to assume the liability of losing your warranty then you shouldn't be tuning your car. If you blow up your motor, you'll probably NOT be covered - and you shouldn't be! If your alternator pulley falls off - its probably not because of your tune. However, if your dealer thinks that you are trying to hide something from them, they probably won't cover anything!

Why is it OK for you to hide things and effectively lie to your dealer when the reverse would be wholly unacceptable? How would you feel if you dealer was doing things to your car and hiding them from you?

Put some tape over your ODB port with a label that says "DO NOT FLASH" in case they miss the notes in your service request...

You will get better cooperation if you are honest with your dealer. If not, then you should find another dealer...

[Dumpspec]

Originally Posted by hexone

I love this flash, but a feature request that I would like is the option to do a complete valve open rather than adopting the OEM settings that causes the flap to close at 3rd gear +. This may just be an issue with stock exhaust.

Anyone else that would like this feature implemented?

bump. i will also like this option as i too experience my valve/flaps closing in 3rd gear.

[terahertz]

Or full open except close in 7th.

Or full open, close slightly in drone range 2-3k rpm, and close in 7th.

[chewbakam4]

When they release custom tuning support I'm sure we'll be able to easily set valves up any way we want.

[Glowin]

Originally Posted by evanevery

If you're not willing to assume the liability of losing your warranty then you shouldn't be tuning your car. If you blow up your motor, you'll probably NOT be covered - and you shouldn't be! If your alternator pulley falls off - its probably not because of your tune. However, if your dealer thinks that you are trying to hide something from them, they probably won't cover anything!

Why is it OK for you to hide things and effectively lie to your dealer when the reverse would be wholly unacceptable? How would you feel if you dealer was doing things to your car and hiding them from you?

Put some tape over your ODB port with a label that says "DO NOT FLASH" in case they miss the notes in your service request...

You will get better cooperation if you are honest with your dealer. If not, then you should find another dealer...

Chill... All my cars, going back to my A4 in 1999, have been tuned for the past 20 years or so, so I know EXACTLY how things work, from a practical point of view, and not a theoretical one - that's why you don't see me spouting off about how they would need to prove my mods are to blame according to The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.

Thanks for the lecture nonetheless.

[packetpilot]

Originally Posted by dumpm3

bump. i will also like this option as i too experience my valve/flaps closing in 3rd gear.

For the moment, you'll need a valve controller. Exhaust valves are controlled by the DME, and exhaust valve behavior customizability doesn't seem to be on offer from any present bench flash solution.

That said, if the level of expertise with the tables gets to some fine-grained level that extends beyond fueling/timing/engine-y things, perhaps we will see it later on.

Regarding exhaust valve control (EVC), I hear a company called RevEng is working on a very small embedded platform that'll likely be OBDII based (more of a passthrough port sleeve), zero external wires, and at a lower price point than most EVC solutions presently sold. But that's just vaporware for the moment since revenglabs.com isn't even built yet.

Don't ask me how I know. ;-)

[hexone]

Originally Posted by packetpilot

For the moment, you'll need a valve controller. Exhaust valves are controlled by the DME, and exhaust valve behavior customizability doesn't seem to be on offer from any present bench flash solution.

That said, if the level of expertise with the tables gets to some fine-grained level that extends beyond fueling/timing/engine-y things, perhaps we will see it later on.

Regarding exhaust valve control (EVC), I hear a company called RevEng is working on a very small embedded platform that'll likely be OBDII based (more of a passthrough port sleeve), zero external wires, and at a lower price point than most EVC solutions presently sold. But that's just vaporware for the moment since revenglabs.com isn't even built yet.

Don't ask me how I know. ;-)

Speaking to proTUNING Freaks it is possible, just needs a custom tune to do it for now. If there are enough people interested in this functionality it can be programmed into the OTS tables. But as said by another member it should also be available once custom tuning is available.

Either way, just trying to get a scope of interest in seeing if this is something folks want sooner rather than later as part of the OTS map.

The current diagnostics option in BM3 uses oem tables for this and although we can toggle open or closed, open only works for 10 minutes or so before the OEM table resets it back to the OEM functionality

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by Glowin

Thanks for the insight. I asked similar questions in the HEX thread also, as that's the other tune I'm considering, and got somewhat different answers...

This is what the other poster said, edited for brevity:



Is it because BM3 works differently? Or that perhaps someone's understanding of the nuances isn't totally accurate?

This isn't the place to ask maybe, but any ideas if codes pop up with piggys too?

Again:

1. Yes, if the dealer flashes your car with a newer software your DME will be locked again and will need to be unlocked and reflashed with the tune. This applies to any flash tune you get.

2. Up till 3 months back I can confirm that BM3 was the only tune that was able to prevent the "DME manipulated" code from popping. Not sure if other tuners have found a way around yet or not. But from the post you quoted from the HEX thread, I'm assuming that it seems that he is having that code with his/friends tune.

3. Like I said, there isn't anything official about this, but I'e scanned my car with ISTA (BMW dealership software) and no codes there. But that doesn't mean that there aren't any other parameters that are recorded in FASTA that BMW will be looking for which would be a sign of a tuned car.

About piggybacks, they obviously wont show a "DME manipulated" code since you aren't changing anything in the DME. But the same concern/uncertainty with BMW being able to detect if you have a tune applies to both piggybacks and flash tunes.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by packetpilot

For the moment, you'll need a valve controller....

I can easily recommend the VSC-2 exhaust flap controller by CG Precision:

http://www.cgprecision.com/cms/index...und-controller

It is a completely non-intrusive option that uses a small wireless keyfob controller to open/close your exhaust flaps. Its completely plug and play. No splicing, etc. You just connect it between the existing flap controller harness connectors on your flap controllers. It can be installed (and removed) in literally 15 minutes. I can't say enough about how well designed this product is and how easy it is to install.

You can purchase it to operate in several different configurations. I actually have two of them now.

1. I first bought one that ran the flaps using DME control when "off", and then flaps open when "on".

...then I put on my catless DPs and catless midpipe (VERY LOUD)...

2. So I bought another one (as a replacement) which operates flaps closed when "off", and then flaps open when "on". This one gives me full control so I can run the car a bit quieter when needed.

Some folks even use the programmable garage controller in their mirror to use instead of the keyfob. I just keep a keyfob in the car. (They give you two of them)

[packetpilot]

Originally Posted by evanevery

I can easily recommend the VSC-2 exhaust flap controller by CG Precision:

http://www.cgprecision.com/cms/index...und-controller

It is a completely non-intrusive option that uses a small wireless keyfob controller to open/close your exhaust flaps. Its completely plug and play.

While we're OT, I find this to be the least elegant solution of them all: it involves under-car labor, it involves choosing only two of three available operational states (stock behavior, override-closed, override-open), its controllers are rather uggo and certainly "integrate" well enough with a keychain, but HomeLink simply eats up an available slot (and some people may need those).

It also achieves its goal with an 'injection' into the lowest OSI layer, which basically means it, as a product, hasn't gotten through elementary school.

I'm glad you recommend it, but I wanted to offer some counterpoint perspective. But, back on-topic...

[evanevery]

"Lowest OSI Layer"? Really? As a CNE/MSCE myself, I'm not sure what this has to do with the OSI model. The fact that it intercepts a simple electronic control signal, and then decides what to do with it, is virtually the definition of simplicity... Perhaps a single layer OSI Model?

The fact that it simply plugs into the harness right at the valve controller is also pretty elegant. Its completely non-intrusive and requires no coding. If you don't like it - remove it like it was never there...

Requires labor? 15 minutes under the car? No splicing. Just unclip your harness from the flap controllers and clip this in between. Sorry if that's beyond what your willing to invest time wise... Ever seen the underside of your car?

Yeah, its a very small square box and it mounts up under your car on one of the exhaust suspension bolts. Above your suspension and clipped to the underside of your body mounts. So "uggo"? Who's looking up under your car? I'm not sure anyone would notice it in any case unless they knew what they were looking for. Would you prefer it to look more like an iPhone?

I agree it would be nice if they would enhance the configurability of the device - but I also understand that adding a config switch or such to the controller would be an added point of failure or dust/water intrusion. So I can accept their decision. It might be nice if you could simply re-flash the device to change its behavior but the electrical connections to the existing harness may have no available vector available to do that. Its a relatively inexpensive device. I have no regrets on buying two fo them since I can change them out so quickly...

I just keep one of the fobs up on the top of my sun visor. You don't HAVE to use the homelink programming. That's a personal choice...

Not sure why you seem to be such a hater wrt this solution... ???

[packetpilot]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Not sure why you seem to be such a hater wrt this solution... ???

UDS via CAN is simply my subjective view as a more elegant solution, combined with the ease of plugging in to OBDII.

Sure, 15 minutes isn't long, and yes, I've seen the underside of my car many times, as I installed all my aero bits. I simply don't "enjoy" getting my clothes and hands dirty when there are ways to achieve the desired result with far less effort, far less materials, and far more "intelligence".

Those tenets seem to be in high regard by engineers in many disciplines. My subjective take on this OT-topic aligns with them. That's all. As someone who enjoys thinking up "better" solutions--be they subjectively or objectively better--that product just doesn't pass muster for me.

That said, I'm glad you're happy with your choice and I enjoy product evangelists, provided they're not dogmatic.

[Slimjim8201]

To stay OT, why would anyone recommend any solution other than Bimmerlink, now that it is available? It's cheap and allows easy flap control from a phone among other features. By far, the easiest "install" of any option.

[phorbes]

Can someone who has this tune with DP tell me if you plug in a OBD2 reader whether the monitors are showing as "ready" or if faults are displayed?

[hexone]

Originally Posted by phorbes

Can someone who has this tune with DP tell me if you plug in a OBD2 reader whether the monitors are showing as "ready" or if faults are displayed?

Are you referencing a separate obd2 or the built in diagnostic tool?

If the latter, the codes are not displayed for the DP.

[phorbes]

Originally Posted by hexone

Are you referencing a separate obd2 or the built in diagnostic tool?

If the latter, the codes are not displayed for the DP.

The latter. If diagnostic tool was plugged into my obd2 port to see if I'm throwing any codes (such as down pipes o2 sensor) would they show as being clear and ready or would they show as "not ready" as it currently does with the JB4.

does that make sense?

thanks for the help

[hexone]

Originally Posted by phorbes

The latter. If diagnostic tool was plugged into my obd2 port to see if I'm throwing any codes (such as down pipes o2 sensor) would they show as being clear and ready or would they show as "not ready" as it currently does with the JB4.

does that make sense?

thanks for the help

I don't see any codes when I run the diagnostics. I believe they are auto cleared. I am sure proTUNING Freaks can verify though

[MCanadaE46]

A friend pointed me to this thread as I just recently purchased the Remus Non-Resonated Exhaust and it's super loud on Cold Starts. He mentioned that you can tune out the Cold Start with this tune.

Although, the power gains and burble is a nice win....i'm mainly interested in removing the cold start. Can you provide more info on this? Specifically, is it healthy for the car if Cold Start is removed?

[lolololol]

Does anyone know of a tuning shop / service that will unlock my DME in the uk ?