Rumor - Next F80 M3 / M4 to have a 3.2 I6 with 473hp

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by dhoggm3

DISAGREE. Blipping the throttle on a 335i is sheer torture. You can literally count: "Blip - one onethousand - rev". All depends on how the car is driven. For 75% of drivers, the lag is either not noticeable or not annoying. these are not, however, M drivers.

Indeed. And, so then, experiences will differ.

Since I owned both an M3 and a 335i, I tended to drive the 335i in a similar way to the M3. Keeping the revs up keeps the turbos spooled and greatly decreases lag. That was my experience anyway. As I said, the downside was the torque fall off. But, as has been discussed many times before, the 335i accelerates fastest when you shift at red in first through 3rd gears (legal speeds, and beyond) - torque curve be damned.

For that matter I am currently driving a rental Nissan Versa with the CVT and I drive it the same way - revs up (transmission in L much of the time). The thing is a total tin can, but I find myself having fun with it. Downshifting from D to L at 90mph is fun - CVT just jacks the ratio and RPM to max. It's actually a pretty cool transmission - just happens to be mated to the worst engine ever.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Levi

If not there is the next generation IS-F coming. NA 5.0 V8, topping 480 PS and making more than 500 Nm. Also weight reduction is on the program together with dual-clutch transmision. Lexus is at the point of surpassing BMW in the handling department, in fact they already have with the LFA, GS and GT86. So the IS-F is the greatest threat to the M3, and maybe also the next C55 AMG if it get the NA 5.5l V8. The choice will be easy: NA V8 or TT I6 (not as good as Toyota Supra) ?

Even if those engines go into those cars (and I am skeptical of both - especially a neo-C55 with a naturally aspirated V8), they almost surely won't be high-revving V8s with a flat torque curve like the S65 is. The current Lexus IS-F revs to 6800 RPM, and the lates naturally aspirated 5.5L in the SLK55 revs to 6700 RPM. Even if the raise those in search of more power, they will likely end up with something like what you have in a Mustang (especially Boss) today. High volumetric efficiency, low (7500RPM or less) peak RPM.

Both cars will no doubt improve from the current generation, but so will the M3. It doesn't mean the M3 is not being threatened, but the N/A V8 vs. turbo I6 is not going to be an important part of the puzzle, IMHO. Just like in the past, the M3 will get by with less displacement, less power than the competition, and a better overall balance. Will it remain on top? We'll see.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Levi

Yes, the only argument is the 6MT, as both the RS and AMG only offer DCT.

The C63 does not have a DCT. It has a planetary box with a single output shaft and a wet clutch instead of a torque converter.

The SLS GT is the only Mercedes with a DCT.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The C63 does not have a DCT. It has a planetary box with a single output shaft and a wet clutch instead of a torque converter.

The SLS GT is the only Mercedes with a DCT.

Indeed. Though it boggles the mind why Mercedes never outfitted any of their C63 models (Black, DR520, PPP, etc) with the DCT from its older sibling. I get why they would leave the auto box in the rest of their larger AMG fleet, but the C63 seems like a good fit for that transmission.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by aajami

Indeed. Though it boggles the mind why Mercedes never outfitted any of their C63 models (Black, DR520, PPP, etc) with the DCT from its older sibling. I get why they would leave the auto box in the rest of their larger AMG fleet, but the C63 seems like a good fit for that transmission.

Probably three reasons:

-Development cost
-Good automatics have gotten much better
-Comfort (DCTs are close to the top automatics but not quite as good)

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Probably three reasons:

-Development cost
-Good automatics have gotten much better
-Comfort (DCTs are close to the top automatics but not quite as good)

Doesn't Mercedes still build all of its transmissions in house? I seem to remember that from a discussion with an engineer last fall in regards to the new A/B class and how they started from scratch and build all the drivetrain in house although suppliers do supply certain things like gaskets and such...

The DCT I think was the only thing they have outsourced in a while.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by aajami

Indeed. Though it boggles the mind why Mercedes never outfitted any of their C63 models (Black, DR520, PPP, etc) with the DCT from its older sibling. I get why they would leave the auto box in the rest of their larger AMG fleet, but the C63 seems like a good fit for that transmission.

IMHO, the C63 Black should have gotten not just the SLS DCT transmission, but its M159 engine too.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

Doesn't Mercedes still build all of its transmissions in house? I seem to remember that from a discussion with an engineer last fall in regards to the new A/B class and how they started from scratch and build all the drivetrain in house although suppliers do supply certain things like gaskets and such...

The DCT I think was the only thing they have outsourced in a while.

They do develop in house transmissions (parent company Daimler). That would not change my points above though. They have now also developed their own true DCTs in house.