SSOTT

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Arcades

I know it generally is not a wise idea to put too much down in a lease because you don’t get it back. However, if lets say I am going to definitely buy the car at lease end

Well, the whole entire point of leasing is optionality and de-risking, so if you're locking yourself into a lease-end buyout and downpayment you've eliminated the benefits of it. (granted it's also way to financially engineer someone into a car they can't afford - but that's not you).

So back to the question ... and early apology for some gratuitous financial philosophy:

(1.) There's an old saying: "Don't spend your capital".

Essentially what this means is your financial security and future is directly proportional to your capital - spending that capital (i.e, "savings") erodes your financial security especially in times of high socio-political volatility and public financial risks ... like now. So for this reason, I'd tie up as little capital as possible in a non-liquid asset like a car. So this is reason #1 to get as low of lease payment as possible while tying up as little capital as possible (i.e., down payment). Put that capital into a interest paying investments like a low-fee bond fund or even a CD and you'll have more of it at the end of the lease if you do want to buy. Unless you're cashflow challenged every month, there's only financial disadvantage to tying up your capital.


(2.) There's an old Ronin Saying: "Lady, I never walk into a place I don't know how to walk out of"



This is where the optionality of leasing comes in: the lease lets you walk out of it any time with a maximum loss of your remaining lease payments - which at the end of the lease is $0. This is reason #2 not to put anything down - the minimal-capital lease is your gun stashed at the back door - if you have to make a quick, cheap exit you can.


(3.) There's an old Benjamin Disraeli quote: "I am prepared for the worst, but hope for the best."

Tying it all together, a minimal capital lease not only lets you use the extra capital for investment, and enables maximum optionality should something unforeseen happen (economy crashes, auto market crashes, you have to suddenly move) for minimal financial impact.

Ultimately this is why BMWs have gotten my discretionary funds over the last decade: BMWFS is willing to take on those financial risks above which frees up my options and capital to give me other lifestyle benefits I otherwise wouldn't choose to fund.

Even a "bad" lease deal still gives you that optionality to walk at any time - which for the financially risk-averse like me has value ... if that doesn't have value to you then it's probably not worth it to lease. And if you're not financially risk averse and think you might change your mind buying gives you the option to sell at any time which can be pretty attractive.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Well, the whole entire point of leasing is optionality and de-risking, so if you're locking yourself into a lease-end buyout and downpayment you've eliminated the benefits of it. (granted it's also way to financially engineer someone into a car they can't afford - but that's not you).

So back to the question ... and early apology for some gratuitous financial philosophy:

(1.) There's an old saying: "Don't spend your capital".

Essentially what this means is your financial security and future is directly proportional to your capital - spending that capital (i.e, "savings") erodes your financial security especially in times of high socio-political volatility and public financial risks ... like now. So for this reason, I'd tie up as little capital as possible in a non-liquid asset like a car. So this is reason #1 to get as low of lease payment as possible while tying up as little capital as possible (i.e., down payment). Put that capital into a interest paying investments like a low-fee bond fund or even a CD and you'll have more of it at the end of the lease if you do want to buy. Unless you're cashflow challenged every month, there's only financial disadvantage to tying up your capital.


(2.) There's an old Ronin Saying: "Lady, I never walk into a place I don't know how to walk out of"



This is where the optionality of leasing comes in: the lease lets you walk out of it any time with a maximum loss of your remaining lease payments - which at the end of the lease is $0. This is reason #2 not to put anything down - the minimal-capital lease is your gun stashed at the back door - if you have to make a quick, cheap exit you can.


(3.) There's an old Benjamin Disraeli quote: "I am prepared for the worst, but hope for the best."

Tying it all together, a minimal capital lease not only lets you use the extra capital for investment, and enables maximum optionality should something unforeseen happen (economy crashes, auto market crashes, you have to suddenly move) for minimal financial impact.

Ultimately this is why BMWs have gotten my discretionary funds over the last decade: BMWFS is willing to take on those financial risks above which frees up my options and capital to give me other lifestyle benefits I otherwise wouldn't choose to fund.

Even a "bad" lease deal still gives you that optionality to walk at any time - which for the financially risk-averse like me has value ... if that doesn't have value to you then it's probably not worth it to lease. And if you're not financially risk averse and think you might change your mind buying gives you the option to sell at any time which can be pretty attractive.

I know the reason for leasing it’s because you can avoid a few things like depreciation, if something does happen you can get out of it without being hurt by it unlike financing. While I am fairly confident regarding financing part (meaning being able to handle the payments for 3 years and buyout) the reason why I am asking is mainly because this will replace our Macan S, which we have paid off.

The other reason is the way I will build the GTS. If we intend not to keep the car and we do not sell our Macan S, then I will not build the GTS a certain way and keep the MSRP lower (and the monthly lower) If we do intend to keep the car at lease end, I will price it higher with certain options. That and I will order it with Chalk instead of Volcano Gray/Dolomite Silver. Not to mention if my parents are going to drive the car from time to time, then they would need certain things that I generally wouldn’t count as necessary, which balloons the price slightly.

My family doesn’t want 4 cars because we have a 3-car garage. While I do not mind leaving a daily driver car outside if it’s a simpler lease like a 3er or the Lexus IS, I am more unwilling to do so if it’s a car I will take care of. I am too OCD for that. I know BMW lease is better which is why I always will keep my ears to the ground regarding BMW cars but looking ahead a few years, I would prefer keeping the Macan GTS purely because I know the car is better the X3M. Leasing wise, yes the X3M is cheaper by a good margin ($400+ actually) but if you are going to keep the car though, you would end up paying the same.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Arcades

but if you are going to keep the car though, you would end up paying the same.

Hmmm .... sounds like you need to decide if lease optionality and financial de-risking has value regardless of your intentions with the car:

- if it does, then the lease if probably best

- if it doesn't, then buying is best

but maybe there are complications i'm not getting ...

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Hmmm .... sounds like you need to decide if lease optionality and financial de-risking has value regardless of your intentions with the car:

- if it does, then the lease if probably best

- if it doesn't, then buying is best

but maybe there are complications i'm not getting ...

Well part of the issue is my CPA is telling us we need to lease in order to be able to write the car off as a tax write off. We are unable to when we financed.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Well part of the issue is my CPA is telling us we need to lease in order to be able to write the car off as a tax write off. We are unable to when we financed.

Ha, well then it's a lease!

And as long as you're leasing personally I'd keep your option to walk away at the end open - so maybe build with most things but not all or something ... if you end up buying it, great, if not you don't lose much.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Ha, well then it's a lease!

And as long as you're leasing personally I'd keep your option to walk away at the end open - so maybe build with most things but not all or something ... if you end up buying it, great, if not you don't lose much.

Yeah, I am trying to think about the best option to take. It is probably unwise/unnecessary to keep our Macan S if we do wend up getting the Macan GTS since they are the same car technically.

Have plenty of time to decide, though I promised the GSM I would tell him as soon as I can.

[Arcades]

Building out a Chalk Macan GTS.

[dmk08]

Immm baaack.


Anyway.. I need a daily driver. i'm down to two cars. Am I a total poser if I pick car 1?

Car 1 - 2021 M340i on a smoking deal
Car 2 - 2017-2018 F80

I can't decide!

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Immm baaack.


Anyway.. I need a daily driver. i'm down to two cars. Am I a total poser if I pick car 1?

Car 1 - 2021 M340i on a smoking deal
Car 2 - 2017-2018 F80

I can't decide!

I'd go for M340i just because of the slightly gas mileage.

GrussGott How optimistic are you regarding BMW bringing over the first official M3 Touring?

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Arcades

I'd go for M340i just because of the slightly gas mileage.

GrussGott How optimistic are you regarding BMW bringing over the first official M3 Touring?

Gas mileage isn't a consideration when you're driving M cars.. at least it shouldn't be!

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Gas mileage isn't a consideration when you're driving M cars.. at least it shouldn't be!

I am personally the worrying type. I'd worry more for the M3 than I would with the baby M340i honestly.

Daily wise I'd always choose the one that would worry me less :P

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Arcades

BMW bringing over the first official M3 Touring?

Oh man, that'd be SWEET! Seems low probability though as the US is a dead wagon market

Originally Posted by dmk08

Car 1 - 2021 M340i on a smoking deal
Car 2 - 2017-2018 F80

#1 unless you're going to track 5x+/yr or do weekly canyon runs. 340 is pretty nice.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Oh man, that'd be SWEET! Seems low probability though as the US is a dead wagon market



#1 unless you're going to track 5x+/yr or do weekly canyon runs. 340 is pretty nice.

It is pretty sweet right now. I have definitely enjoyed my test drives and I have the ability to get a real nice deal on a custom 2021 order even tho allocations are tight.

I do plan on hitting the Appalachian mountains at least once a month.

The problem is as soon as the G80 M3 comes out its just a “poser pack”.

As far as risk.. There have been a lot of reports about B58s consuming oil. That scares me. Besides the crank hubs I think the S55 are pretty reliable?

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by dmk08

It is pretty sweet right now. I have definitely enjoyed my test drives and I have the ability to get a real nice deal on a custom 2021 order even tho allocations are tight.

I do plan on hitting the Appalachian mountains at least once a month.

The problem is as soon as the G80 M3 comes out its just a “poser pack”.

As far as risk.. There have been a lot of reports about B58s consuming oil. That scares me. Besides the crank hubs I think the S55 are pretty reliable?

S55's crank hub thing is completely blown out of proportion as with most things on the internet. Most who have blown cranks are far above the HP/Torq numbers S55 is designed to handle without changing everything else in the engine. Some are stock but those are few and most aren't really confirmed.

[GrussGott]

This guy:

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dmk08

The problem is as soon as the G80 M3 comes out its just a “poser pack”.

Given the performance difference with the F8x vs 340, I'd go with 340 ... and depending on if you buy or lease, then in a year or two or three if the 340 pose bothers you enough you can swap out for a G80.

But the G80 snout ... just couldn't get this image out of my head every time I looked at it



Just can't do the BeaverMW personally.

340 is plenty awesome, WAY better looking, and significantly cheaper.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Given the performance difference with the F8x vs 340, I'd go with 340 ... and depending on if you buy or lease, then in a year or two or three if the 340 pose bothers you enough you can swap out for a G80.

But the G80 snout ... just couldn't get this image out of my head every time I looked at it


Just can't do the BeaverMW personally.

340 is plenty awesome, WAY better looking, and significantly cheaper.

It is way better looking. I put in an order for a 2021 M340i today.

Portimao Blue over Cognac Vernasca with the open pore oak trim and the two tone 19s. Should be pretty sweet. Ordered from David A said about 60 days.

As what I really want is a nice daily that looks good with new tech I think it fits me better than the F80.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dmk08

It is way better looking. I put in an order for a 2021 M340i today.

Portimao Blue over Cognac Vernasca with the open pore oak trim and the two tone 19s. Should be pretty sweet. Ordered from David A said about 60 days.

As what I really want is a nice daily that looks good with new tech I think it fits me better than the F80.

HA! Funny, I config'd one just like that after I read your first post. CONGRATS!

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

HA! Funny, I config'd one just like that after I read your first post. CONGRATS!

Great minds think alike...

Is this thread kinda dead? Definitely slower than it used to be.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Great minds think alike...

Is this thread kinda dead? Definitely slower than it used to be.

Well ... we're here!

Let's re-invigorate it!

[GrussGott]

I've been doing a lot of research about traveling / moving to southeast Asia ... so far the easiest seems to be Thailand (as soon as travel opens up again). Visas are fairly easy and OMG so cheap!

Great health insurance: $1000/year
Decent apartment: $200/mo, luxury high-rise top floor: $1000/mo
Food: fast-casual, $2 - fancy - $35
Utilities: $5/mo

Fairly western, nice people, great ocean/mountain views, good roads, easy to travel - can get really hot for a few months

Anybody else? Thoughts? Been to Thailand or have any SE Asia experience?

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

I've been doing a lot of research about traveling / moving to southeast Asia ... so far the easiest seems to be Thailand (as soon as travel opens up again). Visas are fairly easy and OMG so cheap!

Great health insurance: $1000/year
Decent apartment: $200/mo, luxury high-rise top floor: $1000/mo
Food: fast-casual, $2 - fancy - $35
Utilities: $5/mo

Fairly western, nice people, great ocean/mountain views, good roads, easy to travel - can get really hot for a few months

Anybody else? Thoughts? Been to Thailand or have any SE Asia experience?

I can't imagine living out of the US, unless it was Western Europe. Though I would love to visit some Thai beach resorts.