Suspension vs. Wife Dilemma...(LONG READ)

[jpy1980]

Car Info:
2015 BMW M3
Adaptive Suspension lowered on Swift Springs
19x9.5 19x10.5 Titan7 Wheels on 255/35/19 275/35/19 OEM Contis
BMW Dealership Alignment
Picture of my car below.

HOWDY Men (and women?) of Bimmerpost!

I need advice!

I bought said 2015 M3 a couple of months ago after a buddy of mine decided to purchase my FBO 2016 Audi S3 on a whim. (For those curious on the Audi S3 platform, here's a video of my old car on The Smoking Tire YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un7cKtf31WA)

Finally being able to jump into an M3 and realize a childhood dream, the 2015 M3 I purchased hit all the right keys except with the suspension and wheels. The stock ride height was laughable. So right away, I had EAS install some Swift springs. Score! Ride height solved! And as an added bonus, the handling felt better too!

Then I spoke with Justin at AutoTalent and BAM, he set me up with some gorgeous Titan7 Forged wheels. Being somewhat frugal, I also decided to keep my OEM conti tires that were on my 437m black wheels and throw them on the Titan7 wheels. They seemed a bit stretched, but I didn't care. My Beeeemer was set! Yee!

2 days after I got the wheels, I took the car to the Streets of Willow where I drove the car like a champ! Well, more like a Champ-anzee...man I suck at driving a RWD car. Coming from only AWD platforms, I really did not know how to drive this car. I was literally throwing the car into an oversteer skid ever corner and seriously roasting the tires. Poor contis. *throttle control Julian...throttle control...*

So queue a couple of weeks ago, when I posted a thread stating that my ride was too firm / jarring over small bumps and cracks.

See here: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1562970

The reason for that post was mainly due to the fact that my wife said that my car rode like shit.

I admit, the ride was a bit harsh, but nothing that I couldn't handle.

It turned out that my tires were probably worn out from that track day. Regardless after searching Bimmerpost feverishly to see if anyone had the same issue, while waiting for yall to respond to my thread, I had read a couple of posts that said that taking a couple of PSI off of the tires would really help the ride. So I ran to the garage and took out 1psi. Dude, seriously, that really solved a lot of the issues I had mentioned in that thread. It seriously wasn't in my head either. I drove on the same areas that I had issues on before and there was a marked improvement. Score!

Sidebar: I also decided that it was time to swap out my worn out Contis with MP4S tires, but decided to wait till after the new year, due to family obligations. So hopefully the new tires will help the ride a bit more as well. But I digress...

After lowering the PSI and being satisfied with the ride quality, I should've let things be, but being the knucklehead that I am, I decided to head over to EAS and ask Tom to magically wave his coding wand over my car and give my regular adaptive suspension tuning some CS tuning love. After Tom waved his magic wand on my car's computer, the CS tuning made the ride feel super planted and any evidence of float that was there with the regular suspension tuning was gone! Weeeee! Took it on a couple of back roads and the car felt great! BUT The only thing was that the ride is a bit firmer again. Ugh, harsher ride again *sad trombone* The jarring came back a little, but wasn't as bad as before. At this point, I decided to lower it 1 more PSI and the car felt better, but still firm.

**After tasting the elixir that is the CS suspension coding, I decided that the OEM suspension coding will never go back on my car! The CS coding is too good!**

N-E-Wayyyyz

Queue to tonight, when I took my family out to dinner. In the car was my 1 year old and my wife. Note that my wife hadn't ridden in my car since I lowered the PSI and got the CS coding on it. Prior to riding in the car, I also bragged how I fixed the jarring suspension issue by lowering the PSI. I felt so proud! I even explained to her that the M3 is a sports car and the suspension will be firm regardless. Well after the first 5 minutes in the car, she rolled her eyes and told me that the ride still sucked. Ugh! Now I'm starting to get quite annoyed that she keeps saying that and its starting to make me never want to drive my car when my wife is with me. *grumble*

So my Bimmerpost patrons, please help me with my super duper first world problem and give me some sage advice on my ride quality issues. I don't think that I will ever be able to convince her that this is normal.

I am changing out my tires in about a week or so, so the tires should be a non issue, but if you guys think there is something else I can do, let me know.

My M3 is mainly a DD which I take to about 2 to 3 HPDE events a year as well as a couple of canyon drives a month. So a firm, planted ride is preferred. I like my rides firm, like my tofu, son. But I also need a happy wife...

I feel like these are my current options:

1. Get rid of my OEM suspension/swift springs and get some coilovers that offer comfort first with performance second?
- No idea what brands are good with this...any recommendations?
- Will I be happy with this?
- Or will coilovers in general feel better than the OEM setup?

2. Ditch the 19 inch Titan7 wheels and go get some 18 inch wheels with some MEATY ass tires...?

3. Go HAM and just get a softer coilover setup with 18 inch wheels with meaty tires?

4. Possibly search for a more comfort based low profile 19 inch tire?
- No idea which brand works, but it seems that the Michelin MP4S will hit all the right buttons...

5. Just switch out the Swift springs to another set of springs? I believe the Swift springs are more performance based so, maybe another brand is more comfort based?

6. Get a flat billed trucker hat, some vape juice and lower the m3 on airbags and join STANCENATION?

7. Do a combo of the above?

8. Every time my wife rides in the car and feels a rough bump, pretend like I didn't feel anything and tell her that shes crazy? and keep up this lie till my deathbed where I finally admit to her, on my last breath, that the ride was always shitty?

9. Get rid of wife?

=)

Thanks for reading and TIA!

I'd love to hear your suggestions!

Julian

[domino_z]

Tractive suspension

Search the forum for it and my feedback, it's what you're looking for

The oe Sachs shocks are the problem, no spring will save them

[AIRHEIR]

the michelin ps4s will solve almost all ur issues. great tire with all beneifits of original pss without the road noise and discomfort

[bluecusion]

Try eibach springs, they are softer than swift

[EricSMG]

Pure *harshness* is almost entirely tires/bushings/mounts. This is NVH over broken surfaces, sharp edges, lane dots, etc.... the small rough stuff that doesn't cause the suspension to move (compress) much.

Once the road surfaces changes elevations (actual bumps, dips, etc.) then you're into the suspension, which is much less NVH and more *firmness*. This is damper/springs, almost entirely and generally causes the chassis to follow undulations in the road very closely - you start to get too much rapid up/down movement (vertical acceleration) of the chassis.

However - IF the car is too low then you quickly run out of travel over small/medium bumps and this can create an extremely harsh/stiff ride, so beware. This can, and will, decrease the car's handling capacity as speed increases as the suspension can no longer *absorb* the road without upsetting the chassis - the car quickly becomes unstable as the medium/big bumps, at speed, unload the chassis and thus becomes much harder to drive smoothly/fast in the real world.

So I ask you - is the car harsh or is it stiff?

For the record - my bone stock ZCP car w/666s is extremely harsh but not overly stiff. Major handling capacity over even the biggest dips/bumps (resulting in mind blowing confidence, any speed, any road, any time) BUT very poor ride quality over anything but the smoothest surfaces. This is harshness and so I will be moving to 19s soon to reduce this.

Edit: you really need to be running no more than ~30psi cold on the street. Anything higher increases harshness quickly.

[allinon72]

Your wife thinks BMW = luxury car = floats on a cloud. You are chasing your tail trying to please her ride quality expectations.

[M3SQRD]

Does the Swift springs lower the car enough that the suspension now rides/sits on the bumpstops? Have you checked the static clearance between bumpstop and damper/upper mount?

[Darth One]

Looks like you're facing the old modder's dilemma of "fix your car springs, or you won't be able to bend your bed springs"..

Damper/rebound adjustable coil over kits like KW (my personal choice) will most likely have an adjustment setting that will suit both of you. On my E90, we set them lower and firmer than stock, but not harsher.

[Circuit Hunter]

I think having stretched sidewalls plays a big part. I’d go for 265/35/19 and 285/35/19 in PS4S. I’m running that spec and I like the ride and performance.

[swifty]

The NVH & stiffness will inherently remain to some degree.

However, if it is harshness over bumps, wait for the PS4S. They have bigger sidewalls than Contis with the same profile. So first try this.

Swifts are lower and stiffer than Eibachs or stock non competition. However if you are going to change springs again, and care about the stance, you won't be happy with Eibachs and definitely not stock.

So if the PS4S doesn't help move on to a set of coilovers.

Best coilover option for our car is Tractive.

Another adaptive coilover option is KW DDC.

Non adaptive coilovers, you could consider is AST 5100 or even 5200 without camber plates for more comfort.

However, since you already have EDC suspension and can wait few months, then hold out for DSC sport module which will only be around $1300.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

6. Get a flat billed trucker hat, some vape juice and lower the m3 on airbags and join STANCENATION?


aint that the truth

[yjypm]

Go for something like eibach springs which is softer than your setup.
Plus, if you can give up a little traction, try all season tires, you will be amazed how much they change the ride and noise.

Tractive coilover is pretty expensive and kinda hard to source in the states.

[dustinrb1985]

Did your wife ever ride in the car stock? Not sure if you mentioned that?

[gunsmoker]

Dude, while your wife is more important than the car, I doubt you will ever be able to please her, regardless of the extent of the car changes you try. My advice, do what's best for you and have the wife drive the family to dinner in her car.

My wife thinks my car's ride is bad and I'm with stock non-adaptive suspension and 18" tires. Driving my wife around can be pretty stressful to me. I feel bad for every pavement joint or undulation that makes the passengers feel like a sack of potatoes being thrown around. Then there are the comments - why am I cutting corners, why am I not slowing down before making turns, why am I braking so late... and that's while I'm trying my hardest to be on my best behavior, not exceeding 15mph over the speed limit

[OhioRiderAaron]

I would suggest 18" wheel set with hankooks or some alternative tire (softer structure) and going with an aftermarket suspension. The stock dampers suck on these cars.

You don't need tractive setup, just a KW or TCKline damper + lower side of the range spring. And you really don't need "adaptive" dampers either. If you plan to go back to the track, convert the 19" wheel set into a dedicated track setup.

[AutoTalent]

Happy holidays Julian

Going to another spring option is a waste and a gamble, because for a bit more you can just go coils.

Springs do a great job of getting the look and adding a little bit of performance, but you'll never improve the ride quality since the main problem is the dampening.

I see the ultimate solution is... Get rid of wife. JK

I would do coils to completely change the ride quality and improve the performance, or start with the tires.

The 4S are worlds better than the OEM Continentals

[yjypm]

Originally Posted by AutoTalent

Happy holidays Julian

Going to another spring option is a waste and a gamble, because for a bit more you can just go coils.

Springs do a great job of getting the look and adding a little bit of performance, but you'll never improve the ride quality since the main problem is the dampening.

I see the ultimate solution is... Get rid of wife. JK

I would do coils to completely change the ride quality and improve the performance, or start with the tires.

The 4S are worlds better than the OEM Continentals

What coilover do you suggest for this application?

[FriedPiston]

1. Eibach V1 Euro-spec springs OR throw on the stock springs if non ZCP.

2. 18" Michelin PSS 265/40/18 F | 275/40/18 R

3. 18" 513M wheels OR Apex 18x9.5 F | 18x10 R wheels

[jpy1980]

Hey guys!

Thanks for all the replies.

What most of you are saying is true, I don't think my wife will ever see this car as a comfortable car, so I'm thinking I'll just take her in my car when its necessary only. Sucks because I dislike driving her SUV. It's soOOOo boring! haha

I took my car to the canyons again yesterday and it handled like a champ! I am so happy, so maybe I will just get the new tires and assess from there.

While coilovers sound fun, I am also excited to see what DSC brings out in regards to a controller. I heard their controllers are magical!

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Pure *harshness* is almost entirely tires/bushings/mounts. This is NVH over broken surfaces, sharp edges, lane dots, etc.... the small rough stuff that doesn't cause the suspension to move (compress) much.

Once the road surfaces changes elevations (actual bumps, dips, etc.) then you're into the suspension, which is much less NVH and more *firmness*. This is damper/springs, almost entirely and generally causes the chassis to follow undulations in the road very closely - you start to get too much rapid up/down movement (vertical acceleration) of the chassis.

However - IF the car is too low then you quickly run out of travel over small/medium bumps and this can create an extremely harsh/stiff ride, so beware. This can, and will, decrease the car's handling capacity as speed increases as the suspension can no longer *absorb* the road without upsetting the chassis - the car quickly becomes unstable as the medium/big bumps, at speed, unload the chassis and thus becomes much harder to drive smoothly/fast in the real world.

So I ask you - is the car harsh or is it stiff?

For the record - my bone stock ZCP car w/666s is extremely harsh but not overly stiff. Major handling capacity over even the biggest dips/bumps (resulting in mind blowing confidence, any speed, any road, any time) BUT very poor ride quality over anything but the smoothest surfaces. This is harshness and so I will be moving to 19s soon to reduce this.

Edit: you really need to be running no more than ~30psi cold on the street. Anything higher increases harshness quickly.

What you said about harshness hits the mark on the spot. I think new michelin tires will help tremendously.

[AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by yjypm

What coilover do you suggest for this application?

Our suggestion varies with driving habits, budget, and preferences.

For all around use, without budget then the KW DDC are easily the best product on the market because it retains the OEM EDC functions and performs much much better than stock in every way.

Dampening, rebound, etc... The handling is superb and the ride quality is perfect.

Arcades has this set up, he reminded me how much better his set up is for the street and canyon than my Clubsport 2-Ways.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by AutoTalent

Our suggestion varies with driving habits, budget, and preferences.

For all around use, without budget then the KW DDC are easily the best product on the market because it retains the OEM EDC functions and performs much much better than stock in every way.

Dampening, rebound, etc... The handling is superb and the ride quality is perfect.

Arcades has this set up, he reminded me how much better his set up is for the street and canyon than my Clubsport 2-Ways.

Four questions.

How would these hold up on a couple of track days a year? In the other thread you guys created, the guys at KW kept saying to go with the club sports if you track, but were they referring to if you tracked consistently?

I also heard that KW suspension runs low, height Wise. I think the drop in my Swift springs are perfect. Would it be lower than the Swift springs?

How is the comfort mode setting in these coilovers? Now that you know my wife's stance on the car, will the comfort mode be more plush?

What's the lead time on these?