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      01-07-2014, 03:24 PM   #155
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If you are waiting for competition pack you will be waiting for under two years.
There is no need to offer at launch as the standard cars in their basic form are quite exceptional. Optional performance is considered at a later date.

The M5 was launched in 2011 and received the Competition Pack just under two years later. Expect similar time frame for the M3/M4.
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      01-07-2014, 03:41 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
If you are waiting for competition pack you will be waiting for under two years.
There is no need to offer at launch as the standard cars in their basic form are quite exceptional. Optional performance is considered at a later date.

The M5 was launched in 2011 and received the Competition Pack just under two years later. Expect similar time frame for the M3/M4.
I'm not sure I get the reasoning here. If you look at the E9X M3 the performance didn't change really from launch to the end of production. It was always exceptional. Why do you think the standard M3 will not be exceptional anymore in less than two years? And why is it not good business to squeeze another $5k or so out of many buyers from the get go by having a comp. pack ready?

I think the only thing it does is to annoy early adopters and maybe deter some from buying early in the first place.

Personally I don't care for any power bump but I'm not happy about missing out on chassi/suspension/steering improvement as thanks for buying early.

Anyhow thanks for all the answers. You are a great asset to this forum for sure even if calling comments from customers beyond parody isn't really smooth
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      01-07-2014, 04:05 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
Agreed.

Except that the M3 would not be a sports car. It is.
It will run 0-62 in 4.1 seconds, has sport brakes, seats, suspension, tires, exhausts, track-ready cooling and oiling (to be verified), LSD, sport transmission, ...

If that's not a sportscar, I don't know what is...
This has always been a point of debate, but IMO a sports car is a purpose built machine that gives up a perfect interior and extra goodies in exchange for performance. Good examples are the Lotus Exige or 911GT3. The M3/4 is a luxury performance coupe/sedan. Sports cars aren't full of leather, pimped out wheels, an awesome stereo system, back seat, soft brakes and (relatively) soft suspension like the M has. However, I realize that is a purist point of view and the line is often blurry at times.
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      01-07-2014, 04:16 PM   #158
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@scott26: Thanks for answering many questions already!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
2) Non LED tail lights as a 2015 model is a joke, as is keyless entry and back-up camera's
Not all M customers are bothered by these details for some Performance and dynamics register more. Which is why details out weight the latter on a relevant Audi. In Europe BMW still have to sell customers base 420d models even with Halogen lights. Not all customers are concerned. They are happy they get a BMW.
I have to bite on this one though. I'm fully aware how cost-effective cars need to be in terms of development and production these days. However, if you offer full LED headlights it's kinda insulting that this doesn't include a 1 EUR item like LED rearlights. And in that case, the 420d halogen scenario isn't valid either. Think about it.


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      01-07-2014, 04:34 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
@scott26: Thanks for answering many questions already!


I have to bite on this one though. I'm fully aware how cost-effective cars need to be in terms of development and production these days. However, if you offer full LED headlights it's kinda insulting that this doesn't include a 1 EUR item like LED rearlights. And in that case, the 420d halogen scenario isn't valid either. Think about it.


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Ahh yes. But do people realise that only indicator signal is non LED?
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      01-07-2014, 04:49 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Ahh yes. But do people realise that only indicator signal is non LED?
To me this is not really an issue but it does subtract somewhat from the "attention to details" feel of the car. And you can't help to ask, why comprise the overall perception with such a silly and obvious thing and what else is below expectation for a 2015 $70k car?
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      01-07-2014, 05:06 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
Come on, buy a Lotus if this is what you want.
An M3/M4 is premium + fat, as opposed to spartan + lightweight.

Yes, I know there used to be a CSL. But the 200 lbs or so weightsavings is still relative if your base car is already 3300 lbs.

Consider a 2100 lbs Lotus Exige...
You missed the point of the question and I don't think I could get my 6-5 frame and a car seat in the lotus. Why can't I have the ability to remove items from the car, logically it should save the manufacturer money by not installing them in a car. On the flip side I understand it could be a manufacturing, technical or process issue as nothing is as easy as it seems. I would like to know as it would lead to making a ltw type of car someday. I know someday I will turn each of my M3's or M4's into a track car and I would forgo some things I don't think are important.

and thank you Scott26, while most of it I knew/assumed I tried to compile questions from other people to have a better single source.
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      01-07-2014, 05:06 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Ahh yes. But do people realise that only indicator signal is non LED?
Brake lights aren't LED either and that's somewhat a safety feature.


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      01-07-2014, 06:59 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdecisive
Why did you feel the m3/4 didn't need more power than what's offered?
here:

when I attended M Power Tour for promotion of E92 M3 and M-DCT intro, there at the event, was a "lecture, open discussion" with BMW M Engineers, and the Engineers were clear with this statement:
- It is easy to make a powerful engine and have the car go fast 0-60, anybody can do that... but that is not what M cars are about... M Cars are "Street Legal Race Cars" and are built for Race Track... A Race Car such as BMW M is about The Balance of Power- Suspension-Steering...
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      01-07-2014, 08:49 PM   #164
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Thanks for offering to ask the questions for us.

I will be at this NAIAS (Detroit) Auto Show as well and have attended many previous ones. Unfortunately, I cannot get there til the week of the 19th (the Public Show...).

Usually at the show, some cars are 'roped' off, while other cars are available to sit in, open hood, look closely at, etc. And I would like to be able to get close and personal with the new F80 ///M3 and F82 ///M4.

Can you ask which it will be?

Thanks again.

Oh, and I echo the 'BLUE' questions as I am partial to a darker blue.
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      01-07-2014, 09:41 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Ahh yes. But do people realise that only indicator signal is non LED?
Brake lights aren't LED either and that's somewhat a safety feature.


Best regards,
south
Thank you South and Scott for exchange on Led taillights. It seems quite clear to me and many on this thread that this is in fact an issue that should not be so easily dismissed for a 70k+ car. I counted at least 40 mentions in this thread so it's not just my opinion. I plan to order the Full LED lights not only for looks and performance but also for safety. The lack of LED in the rears will look awkward with full LED for sure and without question cars with LED brake and indicator lights stands out considerably more than Incandescent lights. I have a SUV and a commuter compact vehicle that for $18900 new gives me full LED Tails. it's just embarrassing to justify the lack of these on what I consider to be the best all around sports car anywhere. I can just see it now..wow amazing headlights but what happened back here? How much was this car again?

I would please ask and hope that perhaps a decision to include full LED tails with the lighting package would be an option or at least a retrofit for early adopters.
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      01-07-2014, 09:44 PM   #166
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If I understood Scott right the colors in the launch order guide is the complete standard palette for the F80/F82. If you want other colors you need to go individual. What we don't know is if there will be a set of cheaper individual colors and what they are.
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      01-07-2014, 09:51 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
If I understood Scott right the colors in the launch order guide is the complete standard palette for the F80/F82. If you want other colors you need to go individual. What we don't know is if there will be a set of cheaper individual colors and what they are.
And whether this will be the Individual that I have to jump through hoops for or the Individual that is just a more expensive, but easily selected option.

My salesperson will thank you if Amaro Brown is just an upcharge and is easily orderable...
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      01-07-2014, 10:05 PM   #168
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Full LED taillights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suave View Post
I would please ask and hope that perhaps a decision to include full LED tails with the lighting package would be an option or at least a retrofit for early adopters.
+1. I upgraded both my first year E46 & E92 as soon as the LCI came out - cost over $1k on the latter, but worth it to me as I keep my cars a full model run and want them to be as up-to-date as possible. Still a pisser, but I think I understand BMW's desire to have "upgrades" available to keep interest up through the model run.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=160

Premonition?:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=142
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      01-07-2014, 10:59 PM   #169
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Are they really going to have those hideous seats? Or will there be an option for those who do not visit a track daily...
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      01-08-2014, 12:06 AM   #170
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Will there be a user friendly launch control or will it be similar to the ones used in the existing M5/m6?
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      01-08-2014, 12:19 AM   #171
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Any more details about the adaptive m suspension would be great!

Is it a modified version? Or same as last gen tech?

Preferred option?
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      01-08-2014, 01:38 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Further questions.
Thanks for coming on here and answering questions, Scott. I don't agree with a lot of them, but I respect that you're always forthcoming with details in a way that few companies are willing to do. I know it can feel like a thankless job sometimes, so I wanted to make sure you know that it's appreciated.
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      01-08-2014, 09:37 AM   #173
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Questions:

Why are 40% of BMW M forum-goers obsessed over "only" 8 color options (they can do individual colors too for any color), the lack of an LED light bulb in a turn signal indicator, and feel that an additional ~25-30 effective horsepower is simply not enough?
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      01-08-2014, 11:13 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Questions:

Why are 40% of BMW M forum-goers obsessed over "only" 8 color options (they can do individual colors too for any color), the lack of an LED light bulb in a turn signal indicator, and feel that an additional ~25-30 effective horsepower is simply not enough?
As for the colors, my local dealer is not the most savvy and likely has no clue how to make an individual color happen on a car that does not expressly have a few individual options listed.

BMWNA needs to figure out a way to bring the whole program to the US. AFAIK they are afraid that americans will order crazy cars and back out or something. Or perhaps they think it can't be CPO'd... I dunno.
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      01-08-2014, 12:22 PM   #175
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Amazing how juvenile and obtuse some of the questions and comments are. Hard to fathom that these people are actually in the market for this car.
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      01-08-2014, 08:51 PM   #176
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(Flame suit on): I am not sure if this was previously mentioned and I don't have time to go back through the thread but more details on the GT version and if a F81 version is any "twinkle in their eyes".
Cheers!
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