04-17-2014, 09:21 AM | #89 | |
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04-17-2014, 09:25 AM | #90 |
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It doesn't seem like enough people are considering the significant rotational and unsprung weight savings. The car will simply be quicker and handle better with CCB.
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04-17-2014, 09:50 AM | #91 | |
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As was discussed at length, CCB will likely provide a slight performance advantage but at considerable cost increase, especially at the track. |
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04-17-2014, 02:37 PM | #92 | ||
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Others might choose to spend $3k on backup cameras and nanny sensors, or $5k on Individual paint, maybe $3500 on exhaust... But for my money I'd choose the CCB! Besides... What are perpetually dust-free rims worth anyway?!?
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04-17-2014, 04:44 PM | #93 | |
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I am not disputing your choice of going with the CCB. Every individual has preferences for one option or the other. Heck, I am getting the LEDs just because I like the look . To each their own . I just wanted to put "significant" in perspective . |
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04-17-2014, 06:16 PM | #94 |
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But the weight the CCB option saves is unspung weight. A few pounds savings here is a pretty big deal on the suspension system's ability to perform optimally. Plus this weight decrease is at the ends of the vehicle which decreases the polar moment of inertia. An increased polar moment of inertia causes the car to resist turning.
You can speculate all you want that the weight savings is relatively insignificant but until somebody tests the car with and without the CCB option, you don't know crap about the difference. |
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04-18-2014, 08:44 AM | #95 | |
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Ask any cyclist about the importance of saving rotational weight... It's huge.
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04-18-2014, 10:23 AM | #96 | |
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Again, it is all a question of perspective. On a bicycle, the proportion of the wheel weight relative to the total bicycle is much greater than on a car. Further, the wheel diameter is pretty important on a bicycle and the weight is mostly distributed at the far edge of that diameter. Doing quick math on the F8X, the equivalent mass ratio of the brake disc is about 1.20. This means that every lb of disc weight is equivalent to 1.2lb of non-rotating mass on the car. A reduction of 27.5lb on the discs equates to 33lb equivalent mass. Add back the 13lb from the heavier callipers (27.5-14.5) and you end up with a 20lb equivalent mass reduction on the total car (0.6%). Again, not significant. Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-18-2014 at 05:46 PM.. |
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04-18-2014, 10:33 AM | #97 | ||
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As far as the overall polar moment inertia of the car, I seriously doubt that 3.6lb per corner can be felt. Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-18-2014 at 10:40 AM.. |
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04-18-2014, 10:43 AM | #98 |
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I agree that if we are comparing a conventional braking system with 18s vs CCB with 19s the weight difference is probably negligible or close to negligible. Considering how many will be equipping 19" rims the CCB equipped car will simply accelerate quicker. How much quicker... Better braking... Not having to clean your wheels more than the rest of the car... Worth $8k? That's an individual decision.
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04-18-2014, 10:50 AM | #99 | |
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Fully agree on that point Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-18-2014 at 05:43 PM.. |
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04-18-2014, 05:58 PM | #100 | |
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I give up... Perception is more powerful than reality. If you believe the lighter rotating and unsprung weight will have no effect on performance it must be so.
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04-18-2014, 06:13 PM | #101 | |
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You are right, perception seems more powerful than reality Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-18-2014 at 09:56 PM.. |
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04-20-2014, 01:34 PM | #102 |
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Today, I took my 330d for a spin on the ring, I have the blue 4 piston M-sport brakes and if these are the same brakes as on the new M3/4, start saving for the CCB brakes ... After 3-4km the fading was just rediculous, talk about wasted money ...and pedal travel almost to the metal... Even the E92M3 managed a lap with no major fading...
On an other note, saw an i8 in the wild there and it looks stunning!! |
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04-20-2014, 09:11 PM | #103 | |
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Further, street pads are not intended for track use, regardless of the brake system. Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-21-2014 at 06:08 AM.. |
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04-27-2014, 01:32 PM | #104 |
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ok - some points from me:
- Before I considered the M, I was thinking about a "sporty" 435i. I asked my dealer (who is M certified and running own racecars on the nearby ring) if the "sportbreaks" (1000$ in germany) are any good. He answered: "well - basically it is blue calipers for 1000$". - about the CCBs. I have never driven something like that. But my lady had a 520d. 18" standard rft wheels in summer. 17" non-rft in winter. The 20d is not strong engine and I could always easily feel the difference of the weight and weightdistribution between the 2 setups. of course we are not talking about "wow" effects, but we are talking a felt difference, if you are an enthusiastic driver. - QUESTION: I am really considering the CCBs. no break dust is a heavy(!) argument for me. but is there really no break dust? or is it only "30% less"? - about weight and energie. you are always only talking about wheight equivalent. AFAIK accelerating rotating mass needs 4 times more energie than non rotating mass. mayby someone can do the math again. |
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04-27-2014, 05:01 PM | #105 | |
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Doing the math for the size and shape of a 410mm brake disc rotating at the same speed as a 275/35R19 wheel, I come up with a equivalent mass factor of approximately 1.2. Not 4. Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-27-2014 at 06:03 PM.. |
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04-27-2014, 08:44 PM | #106 | |
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CCB pads are likely not an aggressive compound, so hopefully even less dust but still with stopping power. The PCCBs on my Porsche produce very little dust compared to when I swapped the rotors to steel. The one issue about glossy black wheels is they show brake dust instantly, unlike silver which hides it for a few days. |
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04-27-2014, 09:56 PM | #107 | |
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Why? Because iron rusts, and it rusts fast. If the dust were from the rotors, that iron dust would quickly turn rusty. Yet it stays black. Further, the sacrifial component in the brake system is the pad. The pads do wear much faster than the rotors. Where does that pad material go? I once kept my Hawk blue racing pads on for a few days for street driving. Big mistake. The pads were so abrasive when cold that they actually machined down the discs in just a few days. Guess what, my wheels were covered in rusty dust . |
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04-27-2014, 10:22 PM | #108 |
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It doesn't make sense to me either. The Brembo rep wasn't a salesperson, this guy knew his field, I was in disbelief but he had no reason to bend the truth and made quite a point of it.
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06-07-2014, 01:38 PM | #110 |
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I'm getting CCB basically because I would drive my F80 for long, long time and Ive wanted BBK since long time and it's worth the money for the quality and durability and performance it has. I would def be regret in the future if I didn't get the CCB, simply from its bad a** looking compare to standard brakes. It might cost more but you get what you pay for is def true in this category. This CCB is very special, it is from M, it is only available in F8x, it stands out the extreme performance of F8x. So since you can afford this high performance car why not making it as what it suppose to be?
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