Titanium brake pad shims - why?

[FlyingLow78]

Supposedly titanium shims help keep the heat in the pads and reduce thermal conductivity into the caliper and fluid. Right?

I was researching thermal conductivity for various metals and found that steel often has equivalent (or better/lower) thermal conductivity than titanium, depending on the steel alloy.

So why not just use nickel steel or stainless steel shims?

[lvevo]

I don't know about metals very much but one thing I thought was that at about 1mm thickness maybe titanium is "stronger" than stainless? Or it keeps it strength with heat?

[NYG]

It's not only thermal conductivity, it's also thermal mass.

It takes more energy to raise the temperature of titanium than it does carbon and stainless steels.

Titanium also has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion.

Stainless steel expands quite a bit more than mild steel and titanium.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by lvevo

I don't know about metals very much but one thing I thought was that at about 1mm thickness maybe titanium is "stronger" than stainless? Or it keeps it strength with heat?

Stainless steel has a higher tensile strength/compressive strength than pure titanium or titanium alloys at its highest grade.

[chetrickerman]

The reason for the titanium brake pad shims has nothing to do with strength or expansion, it has to do with the fact that titanium transfers far less heat than aluminum, steel or stainless steel.
It is the same reason most racing brake calipers use titanium pistons as opposed to SS or aluminum. The less heat transferred into the brake fluid usually translates to better brake performance.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

The reason for the titanium brake pad shims has nothing to do with strength or expansion, it has to do with the fact that titanium transfers far less heat than aluminum, steel or stainless steel.
It is the same reason most racing brake calipers use titanium pistons as opposed to SS or aluminum. The less heat transferred into the brake fluid usually translates to better brake performance.

You're not wrong but just to be more specific, expansion is extremely important when we're talking about shims but since shims are very thin in depth, most of the expansion occurs in-plane. Less heat does transfer but titanium has a higher thermal conductivity than steel so other properties like specific weight/gravity are responsible for better thermal performance.

[CRRobert]

What Ti shims are people getting and from who? Looking at adding to stock brakes with track pads.

[FlyingLow78]

I ordered mine from Yperion in Moscow, Russia. It wasn’t a flawless transaction, but they work. My AP Racing calipers have yet to hit even 370 degrees, even at Monza.

Search for Yperion Titanium on social media sites and they’ll pop up.

[CRRobert]

Originally Posted by FlyingLow78

I ordered mine from Yperion in Moscow, Russia. It wasn’t a flawless transaction, but they work. My AP Racing calipers have yet to hit even 370 degrees, even at Monza.

Search for Yperion Titanium on social media sites and they’ll pop up.

Thanks, I saw his eBay page but did not have any for the stock Pad that I could see, will look around some more.

Really like your brakes set up and cooling. I am looking to make some incremental improvements as I get more experienced.

[FlyingLow78]

Originally Posted by CRRobert

Thanks, I saw his eBay page but did not have any for the stock Pad that I could see, will look around some more.

Really like your brakes set up and cooling. I am looking to make some incremental improvements as I get more experienced.

Message him and he should be able to make what you need. My stock rear brakes were a new pattern for him, so he should be able to kick them out quickly.

[CRRobert]

I messaged him via Facebook and see if can send me a link, etc.

[SYT_Shadow]

It's kind of sad we don't have a good source of Ti shims for the stock brakes

On my PFCs I don't need them but for stock systems it's a pretty wonderful idea

[SEAT TIME RULES]

You might want to contact this Co about have shims made for your OEM brakes.

I've got some rear shims on order for the 2020 season on my M2C

https://www.opmustang.com/store/c39/..._Brakes.html#/

[4151zero]

I just emailed them ^^^

[Commanderwiggin]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

You might want to contact this Co about have shims made for your OEM brakes.

I've got some rear shims on order for the 2020 season on my M2C

https://www.opmustang.com/store/c39/..._Brakes.html#/

Do you have the front shims already? Any feedback?

[FlyingLow78]

That’s great that there’s another supplier, but this is a really small piece of the puzzle. These are a good idea if you’re having trouble with boiling fluid or burnt piston seals, but that doesn’t seem to be the weakness in the brake system. The problem is a lack of airflow to the pads, which radiate a ton of heat into the calipers and and turns the paint green. I see these as being of minimal benefit when considering the cost. I’d suggest adding an airflow solution before Ti shims.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin

Do you have the front shims already? Any feedback?

No I just picked up a Essex 9660 front kit. It has the pad tensioner so I doesnt need the front shims..

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Originally Posted by FlyingLow78

That’s great that there’s another supplier, but this is a really small piece of the puzzle. These are a good idea if you’re having trouble with boiling fluid or burnt piston seals, but that doesn’t seem to be the weakness in the brake system. The problem is a lack of airflow to the pads, which radiate a ton of heat into the calipers and and turns the paint green. I see these as being of minimal benefit when considering the cost. I’d suggest adding an airflow solution before Ti shims.

I'd buy these then some ducting and figure out where you can mount the pick up scoops underneath:

They also make a stainless option for less $

https://burkhart-engineering.com/54360en

[jacobe92]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

No I just picked up a Essex 9660 front kit. It has the pad tensioner so I doesnt need the front shims..

Pad Tensioners are for keeping the pads from moving around or making knocking noises. It's not for dissipating heat to the calipers and rotors.

[hC1001]

For me the titanium shims are to protect the dustboots and stop heat transfer to the brake fluid. I use them on my E36 M3 and also stoptech calipers. Its just extra insurance. Whats really nice about the stock calipers is that they compress more than the thickness of new pads so you can use the shims with new pads. What i dont like is the pad retention system. I gotta carry a hammer and small punch to swap pads. I've already chipped the paint due to a slip of the punch. The stopech ST40 calipers are super easy to swap pads but do not have enough room to use ti shims with new pads... Not sure about their other calipers.

I found another seller on ebay. The rears are sold out but maybe you can msg the seller if they can make/get more.

Fronts: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Br...53.m1438.l2649

Rears:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Br...53.m1438.l2649

[FlyingLow78]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

No I just picked up a Essex 9660 front kit. It has the pad tensioner so I doesnt need the front shims..

I wouldn’t run the tensioners on track, either. You risk melting the plastic.

[jacobe92]

Originally Posted by FlyingLow78

I wouldn't run the tensioners on track, either. You risk melting the plastic.

Oh Shite! I've ran mine twice already.