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      10-04-2021, 09:26 PM   #12343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
There should be enough of you to know about computers or PCs.

Just as a comparison, a lot of PCs and cellphones now a days run with chips at 3mm. PCs are getting there with CPUs.

Our cars, still run on 200mm at some areas. That is basically like us using a PC from the early 90s. That is how behind the typical manufacturers are btw.
3mm is pretty big, I think you mean 3nm, no?
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      10-04-2021, 09:33 PM   #12344
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Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
3mm is pretty big, I think you mean 3nm, no?
er yeah nm.

Typo
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      10-04-2021, 09:34 PM   #12345
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Originally Posted by swagon View Post
Audi, BMW, Merc (and VW to an extent) all have pretty endless option lists; the difference for you is that in North America, you do not get to have choose as much as we do in Germany. The UK market is similar to overseas, possibly even 'worse' in that regard.

Generally speaking, just gotta know what you want in a car... with Porsche people, it seems they don't know what they want and/or want everything done at the factory without realising that factory options can be retrofitted, wheels powder-coated, trim bits painted, etc. I don't get that sentiment at all. It's no different to a BMW.
Sorry but not really understanding what you’re trying to say. I’m in the US and Porsche USA has a vast amt of options for every car… more options than I care to have so don’t understand why you say we do not have as much choice as in Germany. Even if there were more choices in Germany, I don’t see the point.

As for people retrofitting options, some are easy (all the various lights and decals and logos and certain trim pieces, colored seatbelts…) but many are super hard and/or cost prohibitive or not possible to add at all (like tach color dial, SPASM, PDCC, PSE, rims, aerokit, leather options w/ deviated stitching, embossed leather options, seat options, headlights, Bose v Burmeister, etc.). So what aren’t you understanding? That people can’t make up their mind on options? That’s not a North American or Porsche buyer issue. It’s common for many people who are faced with an options list with literally millions, if not billions, of possible combinations.
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      10-04-2021, 10:00 PM   #12346
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Assuming you've seen these?



Yup watched through those, and another detailed video on the platform by a Discovery enthusiast (forgot his channel’s name). I’m actually surprised how much off road hardware they came with considering it was the lower priced rover of the time. Lots of things to think about - it’s really the 2nd gen Tundra’s game to lose though. I’d feel pretty confident picking up a moderate to high mileage example (150k mi) - those drivetrains are bullet proof relatively speaking
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      10-04-2021, 10:25 PM   #12347
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Originally Posted by RugbyBro;28107004

I’m actually surprised how much off road hardware they came with considering it was the lower priced rover of the time. Lots of things to think about - it’s really the 2nd gen Tundra’s game to lose though.[B
I’d feel pretty confident picking up a moderate to high mileage example (150k mi) - those drivetrains are bullet proof relatively speaking[/B]
Definitely - for me it'd come down to which I was looking for:

* A project off-roader that's fun to work on, and then go use

or

* An off-roader that's fun to use, and then go work on

That disco 2 is kind of a storied classic; brand, heritage, etc. So restoring one, working on one, upgrading one could be its own rewarding hobby ... however if you're in it for the trips first, then a Toyota is probably the better call.
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      10-04-2021, 10:49 PM   #12348
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Kind of random and off topic but question for everyone here: any of you have experience with the Land Rover Discovery 2? Looking at them as an off roading option for the PNW and it seems like they aren’t getting hit by the crazy COVID price surge. Still many examples under 10k… even close to 5k. After researching them a bit more they have some pretty serious bones for off roading - could be a fun little project car or a total nightmare… not sure since rovers seemingly last forever but these seem to have little to no market appeal. Anyone have one of these either now or back in the day? General consensus on them or things to watch out for?
Think it depends on what you're really after. If you're looking for a rock crawler, then something with two solid axles is your only choice, looks like the Disco2 has em. If you're looking at desert running then maybe an IFS would be better. Overlanding, I would go with solid axles to get out of sticky situations.
Here's something: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/12...very-upgrades/
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      10-04-2021, 11:21 PM   #12349
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Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Yup watched through those, and another detailed video on the platform by a Discovery enthusiast (forgot his channel’s name). I’m actually surprised how much off road hardware they came with considering it was the lower priced rover of the time. Lots of things to think about - it’s really the 2nd gen Tundra’s game to lose though. I’d feel pretty confident picking up a moderate to high mileage example (150k mi) - those drivetrains are bullet proof relatively speaking
My buddy had a Disco in college. We beat the living crap out of it offroad(rock crawling, sand dunes, back country). He had it lifted, old man emu suspension, arb bumpers, winch, etc. It did things it shouldn't have been able to do. He eventually flipped it drunk, totaled it.
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      10-05-2021, 05:30 AM   #12350
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
You know, the X5M comp package is one of those things that makes me wonder if I'm growing apart from BMW, or it's growing apart from me (us?)

For ~$10,000 you get:

(a.) These wheels, glossy black grille & gills, "shadowline" headlights:



I don't want the glossy black stuff, on Ametrin at least (and can add later); the wheels don't look hardly any different to my eye (my staggered 21/22s were $650!), and the headlights ... are those different? Oh ... yeah, I think I do see blacker part in there if I squint and tilt my head ...

(b.) These seatbelts!



(c.) This door sill badge!



(d.) This crooked looking badge



(e.) 17hp and an exhaust

I mean, ok, give me the wheels, HP, & exhaust for $3k and I'm probably in. Even 4k is a solid maybe ... buy $10,000??? For a lot of cosmetics, minimal power, and aftermarket stuff that's better aftermarket?

And the take-rate on the X5M Comp package is insane - like 80% and 100% of owners here. And then most all are also lowering their ... SUVs.

Who are these people? This whole stickers & drags thing ...

It's like the car world is turning into 2 types:

(1.) ICE, stickers, & drags bro!

(2.) BEVs without stickers who win the drags and then go for lattes

Yeah, I gotta say the X5M gills are about the worst of recent designs and, to my eye, they look really bad (cheap) in glossy black and black only looks good on a few colors.


Dude, I got in a lot of trouble on the F95 board for asking technically why the X5M was worth the premium over the 50i

"buh buh buh cuz ///M car BRO are you a fukkin reetahd?"

... eventually with the help of a few of the more reasonable F95/6 forum members (there's only 3 BTW, so them) I detailed enough to convince me

Basically to the 50i the X5M adds:

• +77hp, +0 torque, +1k rpm from mostly* the same engine as the 50i
• Steering ratio: 1:16 in the 50i, 1:13 in the X5M
• Suspension: forged upper control arms, various other DHP-type stuff (parts are different)
• Brakes: M compound cross-drilled brakes
• Chassis bracing (top & bottom braces in the front, 13 piece triangle in the rear)
• Tuning: transmission, differential, etc (i.e., "M this, M that")

*The X5M engine is the same base as the 50i but with some different parts:

• Different piston crown for better cooling
• Additional engine/transmission oil cooler
• 2nd oil sump, completely different oil cooling
• Different engine & transmission mounts

Ok, so granted all that stuff ain't nothin' - and, depending on config, it's probably a great bargain for only an extra $12k ... but is the X5M THAT much better than the 50i in most every situation? IMO, probably not.

Yes, the X5m feels more ... ///M-y. Though I'd have been perfectly happy with the 50i, and if the order was in 2019, that's probably what I would've done. The sport SUV game has gotten a lot more competitive since then, at least for what I'd want, so the X5m makes more sense now.

All of the nerdery said, I think the 50i might be the best bargain in sporty SUVs.

There are many who prefer Porsche SUVs despite the lower power - and not having lived with one I can't have a full opinion - but to my butt it's a trade-offs game: the Porsches feel more ... silky? And definitely have the better transmissions. They're more like a pro athlete who's always playing at 1/2 speed: smooth & effortless while being crazy athletic.

The BMWs are more like a German Shepard: mellow & sedate until you piss them off and then they'll rip your face off. I've kinda gotten used to that behavior with the F8x M4, though more the 2015-zomg-low-PSI than the 2018 comp, but whatever.


I've been told my Porsche/BMW SUV comparo sounds like I really want a Porsche ... it's more I'd have been willing to try one vs the X5M which feels like home ... and in THIS car market?

Geezus, I don't wanna buy in this market again until the chip shortage is over and, based on my research, that ain't gonna be for a looonnnggg time ... in fact, for ICE, for some very specific reasons, it may never end. Which, of course, will only accelerate the BEV transition.
I agree. The competition package/model has started to become a rip off with the F8X and has only gotten worse since. With the E46 and E92, it was more of a mid cycle addition to keep the active platform attractive and offered very good monetary value. Now that BMW offer the competition model concurently with the base model right from launch, it mostly has become a money grab.
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      10-05-2021, 09:10 AM   #12351
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It looks like the bold-faced type has struck again.
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      10-05-2021, 10:26 AM   #12352
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I agree. The competition package/model has started to become a rip off with the F8X and has only gotten worse since. With the E46 and E92, it was more of a mid cycle addition to keep the active platform attractive and offered very good monetary value. Now that BMW offer the competition model concurently with the base model right from launch, it mostly has become a money grab.
I mean, not with the M2, but I get what you're saying. I always loved the ZCP with the F80, to me, it was always worth the asking price.
However, I agree with you on the Comp package on today's BMWs. I don't see the point in a regular M car and a Comp car. Just make all of them Comp cars. I mean, look at the prices of M5s and M8s, Give people options for wheels and trim color but leave the power and suspension alone. Same thing with Mercedes and "S" and Audi and "Performance."
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      10-05-2021, 12:53 PM   #12353
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Definitely - for me it'd come down to which I was looking for:

* A project off-roader that's fun to work on, and then go use

or

* An off-roader that's fun to use, and then go work on

That disco 2 is kind of a storied classic; brand, heritage, etc. So restoring one, working on one, upgrading one could be its own rewarding hobby ... however if you're in it for the trips first, then a Toyota is probably the better call.
I think I’m leaning toward the second option - I love working on cars, but I don’t know if I have the time right now to constantly be fixing things. All those things you listed definitely attract me to the Disco2 - I don’t really see anything that I couldn’t fix myself (suspension, head gaskets, thermostats, sensors) but I don’t necessarily have the time or consistent space to address those items on a regular basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
Think it depends on what you're really after. If you're looking for a rock crawler, then something with two solid axles is your only choice, looks like the Disco2 has em. If you're looking at desert running then maybe an IFS would be better. Overlanding, I would go with solid axles to get out of sticky situations.
Here's something: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/12...very-upgrades/
So primarily a vehicle to get out and about in PNW, maybe something that could tackle WABRD. But nothing super serious like rock crawling - I’d still much rather be in a fast small car lol… just Seattle doesn’t really have the roads to fully enjoy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
My buddy had a Disco in college. We beat the living crap out of it offroad(rock crawling, sand dunes, back country). He had it lifted, old man emu suspension, arb bumpers, winch, etc. It did things it shouldn't have been able to do. He eventually flipped it drunk, totaled it.
Nice! Yeah I’ve seen videos of them absolutely crushing some crazy obstacles. That short wheel base is a huge plus on the platform. These days you have to seek out off road capability since most SUVs are mall crawlers
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      10-05-2021, 01:14 PM   #12354
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More updates……



….only this time it's from my SA. My status changed from V200 to V110 because of the added CXX options (…extended leather on doors, leather door sills with deviated stitching, etc.) from my build change a couple days ago. He said the V110 status just means someone at the manufacturer just needs to sign off on my CXX options. My lock date got pushed up 4 days, so now it's only 16 days away.

He informed me about the allocation issue that was mentioned by the SA at Porsche Carlsbad. He said they hadn't received any allocations since July. Porsche cancelled the allocations for all dealers in September, so they won't get any additional allocations until November. My dealer only has two new cars on the lot along with many sold cars they can't deliver due to the chip issue (…including multiple GT3's). The Cayenne's and Macan's can't be delivered because the chip they need is for the sun/rain sensor for the wipers, so there's a stop/sale due to it being considered a safety issue. The other cars with the 18-way seats/power columns are affected, further adding to the already known TPMS chip issue. Cars are only being shipped with one key to conserve chips. They are sold out until at least March of next year (…based on their running lists). There was some speculation the AeroKit would be made available in January, but I'm unwilling to risk it. I'll just add the GT3 duckbill in the year 2027, once the chip issues are over.
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      10-05-2021, 01:24 PM   #12355
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      10-05-2021, 01:58 PM   #12356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
*sigh* looks like it's getting the 7 series / x7 grille treatment. You know one thing that's been bothering me lately? There's this narrative being pushed by BMW and parroted and promoted by the pro ugly crowd on social media that BMW's designs were previously perceived as "boring", "dated", and "not aggressive". Where exactly was there a consensus that any or all of the above was true? I don't remember anyone complaining about that, at least not with enough cohesiveness to warrant such a radical change.

Further, so BMW is boring, yet Audi and MB haven't fundamentally changed their design language over time and they're not boring? MB's whole fleet of vehicles now look like variations of the AMG GT, but they're not boring? Go from arguably the prettiest and sharp looking M3 to a total bug-eyed blob fish and all of a sudden the blob fish is "modern" and "aggressive"? Again, it just seems like a cop out to justify such a radical change. I guess if you say something enough times people believe it's true.
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      10-05-2021, 02:00 PM   #12357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
More updates……



….only this time it's from my SA. My status changed from V200 to V110 because of the added CXX options (…extended leather on doors, leather door sills with deviated stitching, etc.) from my build change a couple days ago. He said the V110 status just means someone at the manufacturer just needs to sign off on my CXX options. My lock date got pushed up 4 days, so now it's only 16 days away.

He informed me about the allocation issue that was mentioned by the SA at Porsche Carlsbad. He said they hadn't received any allocations since July. Porsche cancelled the allocations for all dealers in September, so they won't get any additional allocations until November. My dealer only has two new cars on the lot along with many sold cars they can't deliver due to the chip issue (…including multiple GT3's). The Cayenne's and Macan's can't be delivered because the chip they need is for the sun/rain sensor for the wipers, so there's a stop/sale due to it being considered a safety issue. The other cars with the 18-way seats/power columns are affected, further adding to the already known TPMS chip issue. Cars are only being shipped with one key to conserve chips. They are sold out until at least March of next year (…based on their running lists). There was some speculation the AeroKit would be made available in January, but I'm unwilling to risk it. I'll just add the GT3 duckbill in the year 2027, once the chip issues are over.
I got my boss coming into my office everyday freaking out about how Porsche hasn't confirmed his 992 turbo build for this year. I keep telling him that build slots are like unobtanium right now. Man the wait must be brutal for you guys!
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      10-05-2021, 03:20 PM   #12358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
More updates……



….only this time it's from my SA. My status changed from V200 to V110 because of the added CXX options (…extended leather on doors, leather door sills with deviated stitching, etc.) from my build change a couple days ago. He said the V110 status just means someone at the manufacturer just needs to sign off on my CXX options. My lock date got pushed up 4 days, so now it's only 16 days away.

He informed me about the allocation issue that was mentioned by the SA at Porsche Carlsbad. He said they hadn't received any allocations since July. Porsche cancelled the allocations for all dealers in September, so they won't get any additional allocations until November. My dealer only has two new cars on the lot along with many sold cars they can't deliver due to the chip issue (…including multiple GT3's). The Cayenne's and Macan's can't be delivered because the chip they need is for the sun/rain sensor for the wipers, so there's a stop/sale due to it being considered a safety issue. The other cars with the 18-way seats/power columns are affected, further adding to the already known TPMS chip issue. Cars are only being shipped with one key to conserve chips. They are sold out until at least March of next year (…based on their running lists). There was some speculation the AeroKit would be made available in January, but I'm unwilling to risk it. I'll just add the GT3 duckbill in the year 2027, once the chip issues are over.
I got my boss coming into my office everyday freaking out about how Porsche hasn't confirmed his 992 turbo build for this year. I keep telling him that build slots are like unobtanium right now. Man the wait must be brutal for you guys!
My SA made an interesting observation that I didn't consider before. The 992 hit dealerships right before COVID, then the world shut down. There aren't that many 992's running around out there.
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      10-05-2021, 03:48 PM   #12359
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I'm not an off-road/overlander kind of enthusiast, although i can appreciate the vehicles. But you guys talking about Land Rovers might want to check out the upcoming Ineos Grenadier - it's supposed to be a modern interpretation of a classic Defender, with modern tech and none of the drawbacks of LR's. Still not confirmed to be sold in the US though
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      10-05-2021, 03:49 PM   #12360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
More updates……



….only this time it's from my SA. My status changed from V200 to V110 because of the added CXX options (…extended leather on doors, leather door sills with deviated stitching, etc.) from my build change a couple days ago. He said the V110 status just means someone at the manufacturer just needs to sign off on my CXX options. My lock date got pushed up 4 days, so now it's only 16 days away.

He informed me about the allocation issue that was mentioned by the SA at Porsche Carlsbad. He said they hadn't received any allocations since July. Porsche cancelled the allocations for all dealers in September, so they won't get any additional allocations until November. My dealer only has two new cars on the lot along with many sold cars they can't deliver due to the chip issue (…including multiple GT3's). The Cayenne's and Macan's can't be delivered because the chip they need is for the sun/rain sensor for the wipers, so there's a stop/sale due to it being considered a safety issue. The other cars with the 18-way seats/power columns are affected, further adding to the already known TPMS chip issue. Cars are only being shipped with one key to conserve chips. They are sold out until at least March of next year (…based on their running lists). There was some speculation the AeroKit would be made available in January, but I'm unwilling to risk it. I'll just add the GT3 duckbill in the year 2027, once the chip issues are over.
I got my boss coming into my office everyday freaking out about how Porsche hasn't confirmed his 992 turbo build for this year. I keep telling him that build slots are like unobtanium right now. Man the wait must be brutal for you guys!
My SA made an interesting observation that I didn't consider before. The 992 hit dealerships right before COVID, then then the world shut down. There aren't that many 992's running around out there.
Yup not many at all - the 992 C4S that he bought for $130 OTD and traded in for $137 ended up selling for $15X (don't remember the last digit, I want to say it was 5 tho). Crazy what people are willing to pay for a 992
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      10-05-2021, 03:53 PM   #12361
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More updates……



….only this time it's from my SA. My status changed from V200 to V110 because of the added CXX options (…extended leather on doors, leather door sills with deviated stitching, etc.) from my build change a couple days ago. He said the V110 status just means someone at the manufacturer just needs to sign off on my CXX options. My lock date got pushed up 4 days, so now it's only 16 days away.

He informed me about the allocation issue that was mentioned by the SA at Porsche Carlsbad. He said they hadn't received any allocations since July. Porsche cancelled the allocations for all dealers in September, so they won't get any additional allocations until November. My dealer only has two new cars on the lot along with many sold cars they can't deliver due to the chip issue (…including multiple GT3's). The Cayenne's and Macan's can't be delivered because the chip they need is for the sun/rain sensor for the wipers, so there's a stop/sale due to it being considered a safety issue. The other cars with the 18-way seats/power columns are affected, further adding to the already known TPMS chip issue. Cars are only being shipped with one key to conserve chips. They are sold out until at least March of next year (…based on their running lists). There was some speculation the AeroKit would be made available in January, but I'm unwilling to risk it. I'll just add the GT3 duckbill in the year 2027, once the chip issues are over.
I got my boss coming into my office everyday freaking out about how Porsche hasn't confirmed his 992 turbo build for this year. I keep telling him that build slots are like unobtanium right now. Man the wait must be brutal for you guys!
My SA made an interesting observation that I didn't consider before. The 992 hit dealerships right before COVID, then then the world shut down. There aren't that many 992's running around out there.
Yup not many at all - the 992 C4S that he bought for $130 OTD and traded in for $137 ended up selling for $15X (don't remember the last digit, I want to say it was 5 tho). Crazy what people are willing to pay for a 992
Yeah, it's crazy! I remember seeing some consignment vehicles selling for exorbitant amounts too. The dealers get 5% of whatever they sell the car for. The current 992 allocations are selling for $10k over MSRP.
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      10-05-2021, 04:26 PM   #12362
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I am REALLY bothered by the rear bumper. What the fuck is up with that fake mesh that goes up from the bottom for no reason? Why?!

Also they've got rid of the exhaust tips to make it cheaper, just like VW AG and most european brands seem to be doing.

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      10-05-2021, 04:33 PM   #12363
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Yeah, it's crazy! I remember seeing some consignment vehicles selling for exorbitant amounts too. The dealers get 5% of whatever they sell the car for. The current 992 allocations are selling for $10k over MSRP.
Yeah I keep telling my boss he’s lucky he got his allocation at MSRP! Now he’s thinking of picking up an OG 911, 964, or 993 to restore in the office while waiting for the 992. I’ll have the pleasure of sacrifice half my office to keep the engine in there on a stand to work on after hours. I’ve got mixed feelings about it lol
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      10-05-2021, 04:36 PM   #12364
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Yeah, it's crazy! I remember seeing some consignment vehicles selling for exorbitant amounts too. The dealers get 5% of whatever they sell the car for. The current 992 allocations are selling for $10k over MSRP.
Yeah I keep telling my boss he's lucky he got his allocation at MSRP! Now he's thinking of picking up an OG 911, 964, or 993 to restore in the office while waiting for the 992. I'll have the pleasure of sacrifice half my office to keep the engine in there on a stand to work on after hours. I've got mixed feelings about it lol
A Turbo at MSRP was a steal, much like my 992 allocation at 2.5% off MSRP. I considered pushing for 3% - and I still might ask in jest - but I think I'll likely just shut my trap and take what has been gifted.
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