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      01-21-2020, 09:33 PM   #23
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Really excited to see the first build completed!
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      01-23-2020, 02:12 AM   #24
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Really excited to see the first build completed!
+1

Good luck OP
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      01-24-2020, 01:36 PM   #25
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This seems like a great project but my only challenge is resale value. A GT3 or GT3RS would maintain value while a $135K modded M4 might not. But I look forward to seeing this build. This is something BMW should be working on as well. Can't wait to see final product.
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      01-24-2020, 01:47 PM   #26
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Dope to see your plans for this build Y! Am grateful for the opportunity to help you out with this and can't wait to see the finished product!
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      01-24-2020, 02:04 PM   #27
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I am genuinely excited to see this happen.
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      01-24-2020, 02:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
This seems like a great project but my only challenge is resale value. A GT3 or GT3RS would maintain value while a $135K modded M4 might not. But I look forward to seeing this build. This is something BMW should be working on as well. Can't wait to see final product.
That logic really doesn't apply to dedicated track cars. Although he's claiming is to be a trackable street car or streetable track car, that build list SCREAMS track car. If it's done clean and the product delivers, I don't see this selling for anything less than what the car is worth because that's how the "proper" track car market goes. It's a small market, targeting a specific buyer for sure. Hell, if I had the money upfront, I'd be all over this but instead I'm trying to build my own lol
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      01-24-2020, 02:52 PM   #29
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Very interesting...can't wait to hear and see more.
Curious if your research identified a preference in engines between S55, B58, or S58...
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      01-24-2020, 03:10 PM   #30
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I find a GT4 body with part number 410084316 just curious how does it compares to building your own cage?
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      01-24-2020, 03:15 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by HUACHENBAOMA View Post
I find a GT4 body with part number 410084316 just curious how does it compares to building your own cage?
Building your own cage stiffens the frame, a bolt in isn't as stiff or protective.
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      01-24-2020, 03:17 PM   #32
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Good luck with the project, you've set your product requirements and with your experience I expect you to be able to achieve it with proper funding.
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      01-24-2020, 03:27 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane_Dawe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HUACHENBAOMA View Post
I find a GT4 body with part number 410084316 just curious how does it compares to building your own cage?
Building your own cage stiffens the frame, a bolt in isn't as stiff or protective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane_Dawe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HUACHENBAOMA View Post
I find a GT4 body with part number 410084316 just curious how does it compares to building your own cage?
Building your own cage stiffens the frame, a bolt in isn't as stiff or protective.
It's a GT4 body not bolt in half cage.
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      01-24-2020, 03:56 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N3_Gabe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
This seems like a great project but my only challenge is resale value. A GT3 or GT3RS would maintain value while a $135K modded M4 might not. But I look forward to seeing this build. This is something BMW should be working on as well. Can't wait to see final product.
That logic really doesn't apply to dedicated track cars. Although he's claiming is to be a trackable street car or streetable track car, that build list SCREAMS track car. If it's done clean and the product delivers, I don't see this selling for anything less than what the car is worth because that's how the "proper" track car market goes. It's a small market, targeting a specific buyer for sure. Hell, if I had the money upfront, I'd be all over this but instead I'm trying to build my own lol
But your logic is shattered at the fact that it's not a dedicated track car and it's essentially the entire essence of this project.
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      01-24-2020, 03:59 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3_Gabe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
This seems like a great project but my only challenge is resale value. A GT3 or GT3RS would maintain value while a $135K modded M4 might not. But I look forward to seeing this build. This is something BMW should be working on as well. Can't wait to see final product.
That logic really doesn't apply to dedicated track cars. Although he's claiming is to be a trackable street car or streetable track car, that build list SCREAMS track car. If it's done clean and the product delivers, I don't see this selling for anything less than what the car is worth because that's how the "proper" track car market goes. It's a small market, targeting a specific buyer for sure. Hell, if I had the money upfront, I'd be all over this but instead I'm trying to build my own lol
But your logic is shattered at the fact that it's not a dedicated track car and it's essentially the entire essence of this project.
To clarify my point, branding for this project has to be very specific, similar to Alpina or another tuner where you feel you are buying a special edition vehicle and not a modded M4. This can do very well actually just based on the listed mods above. Can wait to see this!

OP, maybe Forgeljne can built an exclusive set of wheels for these builds?
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      01-24-2020, 04:13 PM   #36
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Awesome, sounds amazing guys I wish you all the best with this project I'm sure with the pedigree of these cars and the skills you guys have, the end product will be fantastic 👍👍
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      01-24-2020, 04:37 PM   #37
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This does sound really cool. Best of luck to you and your new company.

Comparing to the GT3RS is interesting. Lap times of a stock 991.1 RS are meh. However, I see owners of the .1 RS show dramatic reductions in lap times with very simple bolts ons: stuffing 285/335 slicks on lightweight HREs, AP Racing brakes, GMG alignment and harnesses. With the 991.1 RS pricing now in the range of your base price built GTS, might be hard for someone to choose your option when they can get the RS, drive it for a couple years...and easily sell the car and mods.

Even better is what people are doing with the 991 Turbo platform. Same mods and these cars are chasing down Cup cars. Truly unbelievable what Porsche has done with this platform. A few bolt ons and mine is going 10mph faster in the half mile than a Bugatti Veyron or Porsche 918 and has the chassis and brakes to handle that power at the track. And hardly any mods needed.

All I am saying is your price point and potential resale should be compelling enough to make someone want your car, when there are some at that $130k level that with a few mods, are already as fast as a real racecar on the track and can be daily driven.

Cheers.
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      01-24-2020, 06:22 PM   #38
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Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts! The concept is targeted for people who want a high level race car that does not need to be run by a professional racing team and can be driven on the road when desired. A real GT4 or GT3 race car absolutely needs to be run and maintained by a professional race team. Our car does not. We only intend to build a few of these cars for the person that is specially looking for something like this.

A street car with simple bolt on modifications no matter the speed will never give you the experience of driving a real racing car which our M4 concept will satisfy.

Please keep in mind, this is still just an experiment we are conducting on our own M4. Our M4 is still 1 month away from actually being track tested and we had a change of plans. We intend to exploit the maximum potential with only mild weight reduction first.
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      01-24-2020, 09:01 PM   #39
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YMS secret sauce 🤫😂
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      01-25-2020, 12:12 AM   #40
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I can see why this would be a fun idea, but:

1) the end result will be useless. You'll have a steetable track car that cannot be classed/raced.

2) you'll end up putting $135k+ into a car that will be worth no more than half that (already in used GTS territory).

Sorry but if you have that much to throw around on a track car you can pony up the other $15k for a GT3RS that will perform better AND retain a higher residual. Or if someone is genuinely that serious they can get into a 997 cup car for $75k and use the difference to do a lot of laps.

There isn't a huge value to this service to be worth betting a business plan on IMO. You're supplying mostly off-the-shelf parts that any HPDE junky can source and build themselves. GL though

Last edited by jvit27; 01-29-2020 at 02:25 AM..
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      01-25-2020, 01:00 AM   #41
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I dig the concept. If you really want to build a brand, I'd recommend hiring a designer to do some concept art + add some custom touches. Someone mentioned dedicated wheels. That + a good color scheme (not matte black) will go a long way. The more distinct the car's character, the less it will seem like a set of parts.
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      01-25-2020, 04:28 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YMS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehifi View Post
Just toying around with the math, I would say you're estimate is pretty spot on, assuming a decent used 3 year old M4 is about ~$45k, here's what I came up with if you want something close to an M4 GT4:

ohlins ttx - $10k
ap racing brakes - $10k
GT4 control arms/links/bearings - $7k
m4 gt4 rims - $2.5k
m4 gt4 wing - $2.5k
m4 gt4 front lip - $10k
m4 gt4 canards - $2k
m4 gt4 cooling ducts - $2k
m4 gt4 exhaust $4k
m4 gt4 hood - $6k
m4 gt4 differential -$5k
m4 gt4 bumper - $3k
cage - $10k
seats - $10k
miscellaneous - $6k

~$90k

so add $45k+90k = $135k.

Not sure how you guys are making any money

There's no way this car will be streetable (please stop kidding yourselves), how many owners do you see driving their GT3RS around town? (without a full cage) Sure if you need to get it to a track it's tolerable, but something hardcore that you're building probably belongs on a trailer.

Here's a used M4GT4 for sale: $142k Euro, about $158k USD
slightly cheaper than a used GT3RS (they run about $160k USD)

http://www.motorsport-sales.com/inde...oducts_id=8665
Thanks for your input. The prices that you listed are much higher than what GT4 parts actually cost.

What is considered streetable is different for everyone. I used to daily drive a completely caged prerunner truck that could barely fit in a lane and I found it fine. I also know people who drive their cars around town with a full cage. If you were looking for something to be a on a trailer, why wouldn't you buy a formula car that can easily outperform 99.99% of cars with a roof and provide you with a better driving experience?
This I totally agree with. I tend to giggle at the assertion that something like a GT3(RS) isn't streetable for 100% of the population. I could totally daily a GT3 and be completely fine (...and so can the granny who I observe daily driving her GT3 on a regular basis; the same goes for the Asian chick driving a green RS around my city).

I can't wait to see what your Whittier outfit produces. I begin patrolling near there soon, so I'll stop by.
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      01-25-2020, 04:59 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by YMS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehifi View Post
Just toying around with the math, I would say you're estimate is pretty spot on, assuming a decent used 3 year old M4 is about ~$45k, here's what I came up with if you want something close to an M4 GT4:

ohlins ttx - $10k
ap racing brakes - $10k
GT4 control arms/links/bearings - $7k
m4 gt4 rims - $2.5k
m4 gt4 wing - $2.5k
m4 gt4 front lip - $10k
m4 gt4 canards - $2k
m4 gt4 cooling ducts - $2k
m4 gt4 exhaust $4k
m4 gt4 hood - $6k
m4 gt4 differential -$5k
m4 gt4 bumper - $3k
cage - $10k
seats - $10k
miscellaneous - $6k

~$90k

so add $45k+90k = $135k.

Not sure how you guys are making any money

There's no way this car will be streetable (please stop kidding yourselves), how many owners do you see driving their GT3RS around town? (without a full cage) Sure if you need to get it to a track it's tolerable, but something hardcore that you're building probably belongs on a trailer.

Here's a used M4GT4 for sale: $142k Euro, about $158k USD
slightly cheaper than a used GT3RS (they run about $160k USD)

http://www.motorsport-sales.com/inde...oducts_id=8665
Thanks for your input. The prices that you listed are much higher than what GT4 parts actually cost.

What is considered streetable is different for everyone. I used to daily drive a completely caged prerunner truck that could barely fit in a lane and I found it fine. I also know people who drive their cars around town with a full cage. If you were looking for something to be a on a trailer, why wouldn't you buy a formula car that can easily outperform 99.99% of cars with a roof and provide you with a better driving experience?
This I totally agree with. I tend to giggle at the assertion that something like a GT3(RS) isn't streetable for 100% of the population. I could totally daily a GT3 and be completely fine (...and so can the granny who I observe daily driving her GT3 on a regular basis; the same goes for the Asian chick driving a green RS around my city).

I can't wait to see what your Whittier outfit produces. I begin patrolling near there soon, so I'll stop by.
Thank you and feel free to stop by!
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      01-25-2020, 01:45 PM   #44
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Just had some additional thoughts about what YMS is offering and wondering if they are open to it:

Would it be possible to propose instead of a full blown build, instead a consulting package for HPDE enthusiasts as follows:

Level 1: blueprint car (alignment, ride height, weight, geometry), offer suspension package recommendation (mildly aggressive - minimal spherical mounts, perhaps urethane instead), shock system/springs/possible aero/wheels/tires.
-offer track time alongside racing engineer/driver to dial in the car (find settings that
work for a couple tracks)
-use telemetry to map out chassis dynamics, provide a report
-walk away with a car that just works out of the box like it was meant to for HPDE but is tolerable on the street

Level 2: same as level 1 - more aggressive, with option for cage, for the true enthusiast
that wants to put down the best lap times.

I personally feel that this is what would be a great offering. A lot of us spend tons of time/money buying components, trying different settings and end up making the chassis dynamics even worse than stock and we get frustrated, rip the parts off and
end up in this vicious cycle.

Using this approach, owners can buy their own parts (maybe YMS can offer discounts) but at least the owner knows exactly what he is putting on the car and instead YMS focuses more on the secret sauce to make all of these parts work together.

Steve
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