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      01-16-2020, 12:28 PM   #1
pgriskonis
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Aftermarket Ext. Warranty and mods

Hello, I am planning on buying my bosses 2015 BMW M4. He is selling to me for $37,500 with 55,000mi. I went into a BMW dealership and they told me since it's out of factory warranty then I am not eligible for BMW factory ext. warranty. The finance manager wants to offer me a warranty called Easycare which will cost me around $5100 for 5 years / 60,000 miles. My only worries are that the car I am buying is heavily exterior modified but only has a catback exhaust. My buddy is a mechanic at the dealer and says that if I buy this aftermarket warranty, that they will deny most claims due to the mods. Do you think there is a big chance of denied claims due to the car "looking modified" or do you think I would be fine? Also from experience, does a catback exhaust and intake make a huge difference in claims? I really don't want to purchase the car if an ext. warranty will be useless. Thank you.
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      01-16-2020, 01:09 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by pgriskonis View Post
Hello, I am planning on buying my bosses 2015 BMW M4. He is selling to me for $37,500 with 55,000mi. I went into a BMW dealership and they told me since it's out of factory warranty then I am not eligible for BMW factory ext. warranty. The finance manager wants to offer me a warranty called Easycare which will cost me around $5100 for 5 years / 60,000 miles. My only worries are that the car I am buying is heavily exterior modified but only has a catback exhaust. My buddy is a mechanic at the dealer and says that if I buy this aftermarket warranty, that they will deny most claims due to the mods. Do you think there is a big chance of denied claims due to the car "looking modified" or do you think I would be fine? Also from experience, does a catback exhaust and intake make a huge difference in claims? I really don't want to purchase the car if an ext. warranty will be useless. Thank you.
Honestly it depends on the issue as well as the EW Company.
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      01-20-2020, 08:30 PM   #3
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that's a wicked wrap on teh car.. bring it to a dealer they will hook it up to the computer and tell you if it's modified prior to your purchase .
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      01-20-2020, 10:01 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Honestly it depends on the issue as well as the EW Company.
This.
On extended warranty now and fortunate enough to have valve cover leaked repaired at the dealer shop and covered, as well and indy shop repair of injector and coils. All comes down to the issue and how itís presented.
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      01-20-2020, 10:03 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Honestly it depends on the issue as well as the EW Company.
This.
On extended warranty now and fortunate enough to have valve cover leaked repaired at the dealer shop and covered, as well and indy shop repair of injector and coils. All comes down to the issue and how it’s presented.
Yes. Simply the way it's written up and presented can make the difference on if it's covered or not.
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      01-20-2020, 10:40 PM   #6
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Yes. Simply the way it's written up and presented can make the difference on if it's covered or not.
Can you explain what you mean by that?

In my own experience, I was denied coverage by my aftermarket warranty company for a diagnosis by the local BMW dealer that I needed my driveshaft replaced. This was on my 2011 335is. They basically popped the hood, saw that I had replaced the stock plastic charge pipe with ER aluminum one, and said ďSince your car is not 100% stock, we are going to use that as an excuse to not pay for this or any other claim you may have because we are an insurance company and our policy is to screw people who pay us money in any opportunity we can!Ē Well, thatís not exactly what they said but there was a strong implication. I had removed my JB4 and my downpipes prior but didnít even think something as insignificant as a charge pipe would be a flag. Wrong. I hope there are some decent companies out there and hopefully your dealer is recommending one.
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      01-20-2020, 11:11 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Yes. Simply the way it's written up and presented can make the difference on if it's covered or not.
Can you explain what you mean by that?

In my own experience, I was denied coverage by my aftermarket warranty company for a diagnosis by the local BMW dealer that I needed my driveshaft replaced. This was on my 2011 335is. They basically popped the hood, saw that I had replaced the stock plastic charge pipe with ER aluminum one, and said “Since your car is not 100% stock, we are going to use that as an excuse to not pay for this or any other claim you may have because we are an insurance company and our policy is to screw people who pay us money in any opportunity we can!” Well, that’s not exactly what they said but there was a strong implication. I had removed my JB4 and my downpipes prior but didn’t even think something as insignificant as a charge pipe would be a flag. Wrong. I hope there are some decent companies out there and hopefully your dealer is recommending one.
If a Dealer is trying to deny your claim just by seeing a metal charge pipe, then it's ridiculous to try and attemp any warranty work done by them in the first place.

A difference in the way it is written on the work order is often the difference between approval or rejection.

And that Dealer was never going to write it in such a way that would lead to your warranty covering it.

I had a BMW that had Beige interior. I swapped EVERYTHING out for an LCI Black interior and Individual Seats. The Dealership was well aware of this.

9 months later I developed a short on the KCAN. The tech was convinced that I must have not routed a wire in the seat or interior retrofit.

Quite an argument that I was sure that was not the cause, but as EW only pay for 30 -60 minutes of diagnostic time if at all, I had to sign an open ticket for up to 10 hours to track down the short.

We agreed when located, we would readdress what happened.

After 3.5 hours, the seat module was determined to be bad and shorted the KCAN to ground.

Again, Dealer knew the seats had been replaced. Service Manager and I agreed to not mention all that and just list as module had gone bad. They covered 1 hour of diagnostic, a new module, the install and coding which was about $1k.

If they had written up what they initially suspected with interior retrofit, it would have been rejected. As it was straight forward in a warranty friendly explanation, there was no issue.

I have had another instance as well, where I had installed a 6WB and LED Taillights. The turn signal later began malfunctioning and would only keep signaling if I held it in the up or down position. If the Dealership had noted these changes, the work most likely would be denied (needed an istep update). Though it would only run about $300, but leaving out non-relevant details on the work order, again, it was covered.

It's imperative when writing your Service Ticket/Work Order with SA, you know what warranty will and will not cover and you make sure it's written in the most warranty friendly way.
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      01-20-2020, 11:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintking View Post
Can you explain what you mean by that?

In my own experience, I was denied coverage by my aftermarket warranty company for a diagnosis by the local BMW dealer that I needed my driveshaft replaced. This was on my 2011 335is. They basically popped the hood, saw that I had replaced the stock plastic charge pipe with ER aluminum one, and said ďSince your car is not 100% stock, we are going to use that as an excuse to not pay for this or any other claim you may have because we are an insurance company and our policy is to screw people who pay us money in any opportunity we can!Ē Well, thatís not exactly what they said but there was a strong implication. I had removed my JB4 and my downpipes prior but didnít even think something as insignificant as a charge pipe would be a flag. Wrong. I hope there are some decent companies out there and hopefully your dealer is recommending one.
It sounds like the attitude of your service rep (or whomever) wasn't customer/mod friendly. I'm sure there is a large degree of variability across the board.

To date, I've not been thrown under the proverbial bus by the local dealership when it comes to warranty write-ups. That includes original BMW coverage and aftermarket extended plan.
The SA(s) and techs are always eager to see me come in because they expect some new upgrade at this point. A lot to be said about building those relationships.

Of course, I haven't had what one would call "major" claims.
Covered issues to date:
  • normal maintenance schedule
  • A/C failed (known issue, software updated)
  • horn failed
  • valve cover leak
  • #6 injector and #5 & 6 coils (eager to help out here, as it turned out the plugs were improperly torqued at last maintenance visit with plug change... and by improperly torqued, I mean crush washers weren't least bit crushed [per tech that tore everything down])
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      01-20-2020, 11:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
If a Dealer is trying to deny your claim just by seeing a metal charge pipe, then it's ridiculous to try and attemp any warranty work done by them in the first place.

A difference in the way it is written on the work order is often the difference between approval or rejection.

And that Dealer was never going to write it in such a way that would lead to your warranty covering it.

I had a BMW that had Beige interior. I swapped EVERYTHING out for an LCI Black interior and Individual Seats. The Dealership was well aware of this.

9 months later I developed a short on the KCAN. The tech was convinced that I must have not routed a wire in the seat or interior retrofit.

Quite an argument that I was sure that was not the cause, but as EW only pay for 30 -60 minutes of diagnostic time if at all, I had to sign an open ticket for up to 10 hours to track down the short.

We agreed when located, we would readdress what happened.

After 3.5 hours, the seat module was determined to be bad and shorted the KCAN to ground.

Again, Dealer knew the seats had been replaced. Service Manager and I agreed to not mention all that and just list as module had gone bad. They covered 1 hour of diagnostic, a new module, the install and coding which was about $1k.

If they had written up what they initially suspected with interior retrofit, it would have been rejected. As it was straight forward in a warranty friendly explanation, there was no issue.

I have had another instance as well, where I had installed a 6WB and LED Taillights. The turn signal later began malfunctioning and would only keep signaling if I held it in the up or down position. If the Dealership had noted these changes, the work most likely would be denied (needed an istep update). Though it would only run about $300, but leaving out non-relevant details on the work order, again, it was covered.

It's imperative when writing your Service Ticket/Work Order with SA, you know what warranty will and will not cover and you make sure it's written in the most warranty friendly way.
Sorry, I was probably unclear... it wasnít the dealer who saw the charge pipe and created problems. They wrote it up listing the issues (significant vibration under acceleration) and their determination it needed driveshaft replacement. Warranty company was contacted and sent out a representative who inspected the car and determined it would be denied for non-stock items.

During a discussion with the representative, I tried to argue that a charge pipe would not be the cause of a bad driveshaft but of course that was wasting my breath. He actually told me they have denied other claims (for example a seat heater) based solely on non-stock sized wheels and tires!? I had been paying monthly for coverage and had paid around $1000 at that point. Surprisingly, based on the fact that the car would not have qualified for any coverage from the beginning, they actually refunded me about half the money I had paid. Iím sure thereís probably some government regulations requiring them to do that or they would keep every dollar.
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      01-20-2020, 11:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintking View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
If a Dealer is trying to deny your claim just by seeing a metal charge pipe, then it's ridiculous to try and attemp any warranty work done by them in the first place.

A difference in the way it is written on the work order is often the difference between approval or rejection.

And that Dealer was never going to write it in such a way that would lead to your warranty covering it.

I had a BMW that had Beige interior. I swapped EVERYTHING out for an LCI Black interior and Individual Seats. The Dealership was well aware of this.

9 months later I developed a short on the KCAN. The tech was convinced that I must have not routed a wire in the seat or interior retrofit.

Quite an argument that I was sure that was not the cause, but as EW only pay for 30 -60 minutes of diagnostic time if at all, I had to sign an open ticket for up to 10 hours to track down the short.

We agreed when located, we would readdress what happened.

After 3.5 hours, the seat module was determined to be bad and shorted the KCAN to ground.

Again, Dealer knew the seats had been replaced. Service Manager and I agreed to not mention all that and just list as module had gone bad. They covered 1 hour of diagnostic, a new module, the install and coding which was about $1k.

If they had written up what they initially suspected with interior retrofit, it would have been rejected. As it was straight forward in a warranty friendly explanation, there was no issue.

I have had another instance as well, where I had installed a 6WB and LED Taillights. The turn signal later began malfunctioning and would only keep signaling if I held it in the up or down position. If the Dealership had noted these changes, the work most likely would be denied (needed an istep update). Though it would only run about $300, but leaving out non-relevant details on the work order, again, it was covered.

It's imperative when writing your Service Ticket/Work Order with SA, you know what warranty will and will not cover and you make sure it's written in the most warranty friendly way.
Sorry, I was probably unclear... it wasn’t the dealer who saw the charge pipe and created problems. They wrote it up listing the issues (significant vibration under acceleration) and their determination it needed driveshaft replacement. Warranty company was contacted and sent out a representative who inspected the car and determined it would be denied for non-stock items.

During a discussion with the representative, I tried to argue that a charge pipe would not be the cause of a bad driveshaft but of course that was wasting my breath. He actually told me they have denied other claims (for example a seat heater) based solely on non-stock sized wheels and tires!? I had been paying monthly for coverage and had paid around $1000 at that point. Surprisingly, based on the fact that the car would not have qualified for any coverage from the beginning, they actually refunded me about half the money I had paid. I’m sure there’s probably some government regulations requiring them to do that or they would keep every dollar.
And that's why it's important to know EXACTLY what every word of the fine print on the ACTUAL EW Agreement they sign and send you says.

As I have noted in many threads, what is stated (and what should be stated but isn't) is often a gotcha if you do not read it multiple times and understand what exactly is and isn't there, is often a gotcha.

That includes anything from diagnostic time limitations, towing, rental car, parts, labor rates, taxes, shop fees and countless other gotchas.
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      01-21-2020, 08:28 AM   #11
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The law basically states that the modification has to be the reasonable cause of the damage to exclude coverage. Charge pipe = more power (possibly) which stresses driveline and therefore more likely to fail. Also, "I had removed my JB4 and my downpipes.." so I wanted to prevent warranty company knowing other mods (which any decent rep would suspect).

So your choices:

1. Don't performance mod if you want coverage

2. Get performance mods that include warranty ala Dinan

3. Work with SA and dealership selling warranty to confirm mods will not be excluded

4. Remove mods before service (which is insurance fraud)

5. Bank warranty money (odds are you come out ahead, but risk of big loss on you)

On the other side, 37k for that car seems way steep. Mods add little to know value imho, and most 15's are going south of $35k
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      01-21-2020, 09:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintking View Post
During a discussion with the representative, I tried to argue that a charge pipe would not be the cause of a bad driveshaft but of course that was wasting my breath. He actually told me they have denied other claims (for example a seat heater) based solely on non-stock sized wheels and tires!? I had been paying monthly for coverage and had paid around $1000 at that point. Surprisingly, based on the fact that the car would not have qualified for any coverage from the beginning, they actually refunded me about half the money I had paid. I'm sure there's probably some government regulations requiring them to do that or they would keep every dollar.
I believe you; I had an aftermarket warranty company deny my transmission claim, for a known issue, in an Acura RSX under the basis that I had "aftermarket" rotors on my car.. True story, not a bit of exaggeration.

When I explained to him that the rotors are "A-Spec," which is equivalent to M Performance of Acura, i.e. OEM, he said; "Well, it still won't be covered." I told him he's full of shit and he didn't even attempt to deny it, he almost seemed proud to be a scumbag.

Long story longer, I would sell or burn down my car before I pay for another aftermarket automotive warranty. As I've learned since then, aftermarket warranty companies will find any unreasonable reason to weasel their way out of paying for any major claim. It's a losing bet that you'll almost guaranteed to never come out ahead with.

However, If you're purchasing a vehicle new and have Geico, I do suggest opting their Mechanical Breakdown insurance, as it doesn't fall under warranty/service contract terms but insurance laws, so there are mandatory state protections written in and I've only heard good things about it, nothing negative.


https://www.geico.com/auto-insurance...own-insurance/
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      01-21-2020, 09:31 PM   #13
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"As I've learned since then, aftermarket warranty companies will find any unreasonable reason to weasel their way out of paying for any major claim. It's a losing bet that you'll almost guaranteed to never come out ahead with."

I have had two good warranty experiences. First with CarMax warranty on a 2004 Audi Allroad. THe first claim was a hassle and an indie shop, so I went to dealer for the rest and they ended up paying out over $16k on an 1.8k warranty.

My BMW extended warranty costs $5.2k, but covered all new engine seals (but dealer tried to get a new engine) plus thousands in other parts.

Picking the right company and getting waivers before modding is only safe way to go.
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      01-21-2020, 10:20 PM   #14
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I have had nothing but good experiences with Carmax (MaxCare) and my prior BMW dealer for warranty work.

Canít say Iíve had the best experience with CarMax but at least their warranty hasnít failed me.
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      01-22-2020, 03:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjposner View Post
"As I've learned since then, aftermarket warranty companies will find any unreasonable reason to weasel their way out of paying for any major claim. It's a losing bet that you'll almost guaranteed to never come out ahead with."

I have had two good warranty experiences. First with CarMax warranty on a 2004 Audi Allroad. THe first claim was a hassle and an indie shop, so I went to dealer for the rest and they ended up paying out over $16k on an 1.8k warranty.

My BMW extended warranty costs $5.2k, but covered all new engine seals (but dealer tried to get a new engine) plus thousands in other parts.

Picking the right company and getting waivers before modding is only safe way to go.
I was under something called AcuraCare, which I learned at the time, is not an extension of the factory warranty backed by Acura USA, as I ignorantly assumed but some shitty, third-party company that underwriters their "service contract." Acura just slapped their name on it and takes a cut, I guess.

You're right, I heard good things about CarMax's extended warranty from Doug DeMuro on YouTube and I'm not sure if BMW ex warranty you reference is backed by BMW AG, so I'm not totally bias to the concept of an extended automotive warranty, I even recommend Geico MB but it's difficult sometimes to know which one will pay off in the end, other than word-of-mouth or prior experience. It can be a roll of the dice and not something you would appreciate at one of your most difficult moments.
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      01-22-2020, 11:35 PM   #16
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What do you mean by “getting waivers before modding”?
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      01-23-2020, 12:31 PM   #17
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OP, that car has more than a catback exhaust. I can see the suspension is lowered and there is a BBK just in that one picture, aside from the wheels and wrap.

Easycare is a reputable company, but instead of shelling out $5100 for an extended warranty, on a relatively high mileage car, you may want to consider other cars - i.e. lower mileage cars that haven't been modified. That is if warranty coverage is important to you.
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      01-23-2020, 05:04 PM   #18
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Spent money on look mods, but has some crap tires on the back. Op, donít buy this car. You can find another 15 for less in better shape. I would go to Carnax and take advantage of their maxcare warranty
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      01-23-2020, 06:32 PM   #19
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I'd love to see what BMW says when you pull into a dealership with this car....
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      02-08-2020, 10:47 AM   #20
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Spent money on look mods, but has some crap tires on the back. Op, donít buy this car. You can find another 15 for less in better shape. I would go to Carnax and take advantage of their maxcare warranty
But then they wouldnít be in their bossí good graces.
Is buying the bossí performance car ever a wise career move? Lol
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      02-11-2020, 07:15 AM   #21
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"What do you mean by “getting waivers before modding?"

Option 1, have shop that handles warranty claims install mods (dinan at BMW dealers for example)

Option 2, call warranty company and verify that mod x will not violate policy (unless said mod is the cause of the claim). Cite Magnuson Moss Act (which basically states that after market changes do not void warranty unless they are the cause of the failure.
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