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      01-19-2020, 02:33 PM   #67
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      01-19-2020, 03:57 PM   #68
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... I can stand outside the grocery store and it will back out, drive around the parking lot, and come pick me up. ...

This is absolutely bonkers to me.
Total gimmick. What's bonkers to me is that any able bodied person would actually want this. Talk about lazy. What's next? An autonomous ass-wiping toilet bowl? Maybe Tesla could integrate one into next year's model. Think about the possibilities. You wouldn't even need to pull over.
Everything nowadays is designed to make you lazy. Do you still keep a map in your glove box for your navigation or like to crank your windows? Do you boycott backup cameras, cruise control, automatic transmissions, and automatic opening and closing trunks? I said the same things as you at first, but trust me your viewpoint changes once you experience all of this technology
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      01-19-2020, 04:04 PM   #69
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There's risk of your house catching on fire. There's no stories as of late. There's risk of the car catching on fire after a car accident.
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      01-19-2020, 04:05 PM   #70
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The acceleration of the Model 3 performance is outstanding. Tesla drivetrains are great in that regard. Reliability leaves a lot on the table. Build quality of the overall car is also pretty poor in comparison to BMW.
Buddy of mine had one for awhile and just traded it in last week on an Audi S3. He said the range issues with the M3P and the overall build quality just bothered him after living with it for six months. He never got anywhere close to the advertised range and when it got cold if he drove conservatively he'd get 60-70% of the stated range, getting 40-50% wasn't uncommon. In the summer time it was 10-12% better.
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      01-19-2020, 04:24 PM   #71
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... Buddy of mine had one for awhile and just traded it in last week on an Audi S3. He said the range issues with the M3P and the overall built quality just bothered him after living with it for six months. He never got anywhere close to the advertised range and when it got cold if he drove conservatively he'd get 60-70% of the stated range, getting 40-50% wasn't uncommon. In the summer time it was 10-12% better.
That's been my biggest concern with EVs here in Colorado, where it can get quite cold. Especially up over those mountain pass areas. I've been reading reports that match your friend's experience with cold temps. That, alone, is enough to keep me away for the foreseeable future.
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      01-19-2020, 07:50 PM   #72
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Everything nowadays is designed to make you lazy. Do you still keep a map in your glove box for your navigation or like to crank your windows? Do you boycott backup cameras, cruise control, automatic transmissions, and automatic opening and closing trunks? I said the same things as you at first, but trust me your viewpoint changes once you experience all of this technology
Wow, talk about comparing apples to elbows. I'm all for useful tech, hell I'm an AI engineer. There's tech that actually saves time or increases safety while minimizing distractions, then there's tech that's just gimmicky and encourages one to no longer think on their own. I'm perfectly comfortable saying with absolute certainty that I have zero use for a car that drives around a parking lot by itself. I don't need tech that thinks for me nor do I need tech that drives for me. I enjoy driving, I enjoy thinking on my own. My viewpoint isn't changing.
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      01-19-2020, 09:44 PM   #73
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Everything nowadays is designed to make you lazy. Do you still keep a map in your glove box for your navigation or like to crank your windows? Do you boycott backup cameras, cruise control, automatic transmissions, and automatic opening and closing trunks? I said the same things as you at first, but trust me your viewpoint changes once you experience all of this technology
Wow, talk about comparing apples to elbows. I'm all for useful tech, hell I'm an AI engineer. There's tech that actually saves time or increases safety while minimizing distractions, then there's tech that's just gimmicky and encourages one to no longer think on their own. I'm perfectly comfortable saying with absolute certainty that I have zero use for a car that drives around a parking lot by itself. I don't need tech that thinks for me nor do I need tech that drives for me. I enjoy driving, I enjoy thinking on my own. My viewpoint isn't changing.
And that's perfectly understandable. I also enjoy driving a lot which is why I could never have a Tesla as my only car
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      01-20-2020, 10:39 AM   #74
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And that's perfectly understandable. I also enjoy driving a lot which is why I could never have a Tesla as my only car
Being that you're in CA, I could totally understand an EV as a daily. The cost/benefit probably justifies it with such high gasoline costs and the amount of traffic. Every once in a while I toy with the idea of getting a daily EV, but in NC, gas prices are very reasonable and I simply don't drive enough miles in a year to justify the cost. Roads here have been getting more crowded, but it's still NOTHING compared to CA traffic. So for me at least, the only real benefit would be to have a car that's a "beater" and keeps the miles and door dings off the car I actually care about. True story - on busy days, it's not uncommon for me to spend 10 minutes driving around a parking lot waiting for a suitable parking spot to open up ... a spot where it's impossible for some idiot to slam their door into the side of my car. Those are the days where the thought of having a daily toaster appeal to me most.
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      01-20-2020, 10:50 AM   #75
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The acceleration of the Model 3 performance is outstanding. Tesla drivetrains are great in that regard. Reliability leaves a lot on the table. Build quality of the overall car is also pretty poor in comparison to BMW.
Buddy of mine had one for awhile and just traded it in last week on an Audi S3. He said the range issues with the M3P and the overall build quality just bothered him after living with it for six months. He never got anywhere close to the advertised range and when it got cold if he drove conservatively he'd get 60-70% of the stated range, getting 40-50% wasn't uncommon. In the summer time it was 10-12% better.
Your buddy probably hammers that pedal a lot since it's pretty easy to go fast in the the Model 3 Performance. I have the same car and my range stays consistent pretty much all the time. It's only when it gets really cold the range will start dropping.
Yes the BMW build quality is better. But the Model 3 quality is not that bad. I did have alignment and squeaking issues but that was all minor. I would not let that bother me or make me get rid of the car. The car is fantastic.
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      01-20-2020, 11:08 AM   #76
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Your buddy probably hammers that pedal a lot since it's pretty easy to go fast in the the Model 3 Performance. I have the same car and my range stays consistent pretty much all the time. It's only when it gets really cold the range will start dropping.
Yes the BMW build quality is better. But the Model 3 quality is not that bad. I did have alignment and squeaking issues but that was all minor. I would not let that bother me or make me get rid of the car. The car is fantastic.
I have several friends with Tesla's. None of them get their stated range, but the others are more reasonable, kind of akin to EPA ratings IMO. For example, buddy has a model 3, it's not the performance, it's the standard dual motor long range car. In the summer he is consistently about 10% short of the stated range. In the winter it's 20-25%. 10% is pretty typical of driving habits in my experience. For example, guy that just traded his model3 performance for the S3 is under performing the EPA rating by 2mpg. This isn't surprising, he has a bit of a heavy foot at times.

Two friends used to have Model S's, one was a P90D, I know (but am not really friends with, more of acquaintance of) a couple folks with S's and X's as well the drivetrains in all cases are fun due to the instant torque.

You say the interior is "not that bad" but that's really a relative statement IMO. The interior is on par with Kia or something like a Malibu in my experience, when talking quality. Both the Camry and especially the current Accord are better (as are all the euro brands at the Tesla's price point).

If I had confidence in the build quality and longevity I would make the trade off of a subpar interior for the drivetrain in a Tesla (assuming they fixed their issue). I was cheering on the sidelines for Tesla through the announcement of the model 3. It was then that I got serious about researching the company since I was considering a deposit. Paid more attention when riding in and driving the cars, dug through their 10k's and 10Q's. I decided I would pass.

I don't blame you for buying a model3 performance though, it would make a fun daily driver the powertrain is intoxicating.
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      01-20-2020, 12:28 PM   #77
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There's an equal amount of BMW owners with cringey M names or "AMG LOL" on their plates.
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      01-20-2020, 12:37 PM   #78
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I agree about governments, just so happens that it works out well for the automakers as well.
Governments +1. It's driven by climate change and laws put in place by governments regarding emissions.

Automakers are still very much in the red regarding EVs. source: am former GM employee. Also look at Tesla's financials and government subsidies. It'll be financially viable with scale, hopefully. But today it's not there.
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      01-20-2020, 12:49 PM   #79
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I have several friends with Tesla's. None of them get their stated range, but the others are more reasonable, kind of akin to EPA ratings IMO. For example, buddy has a model 3, it's not the performance, it's the standard dual motor long range car. In the summer he is consistently about 10% short of the stated range. In the winter it's 20-25%. 10% is pretty typical of driving habits in my experience. For example, guy that just traded his model3 performance for the S3 is under performing the EPA rating by 2mpg. This isn't surprising, he has a bit of a heavy foot at times.

Two friends used to have Model S's, one was a P90D, I know (but am not really friends with, more of acquaintance of) a couple folks with S's and X's as well the drivetrains in all cases are fun due to the instant torque.

You say the interior is "not that bad" but that's really a relative statement IMO. The interior is on par with Kia or something like a Malibu in my experience, when talking quality. Both the Camry and especially the current Accord are better (as are all the euro brands at the Tesla's price point).

If I had confidence in the build quality and longevity I would make the trade off of a subpar interior for the drivetrain in a Tesla (assuming they fixed their issue). I was cheering on the sidelines for Tesla through the announcement of the model 3. It was then that I got serious about researching the company since I was considering a deposit. Paid more attention when riding in and driving the cars, dug through their 10k's and 10Q's. I decided I would pass.

I don't blame you for buying a model3 performance though, it would make a fun daily driver the powertrain is intoxicating.
i understand the interior might not be everyone's taste. But for me that minimalist interior makes everything in the car really clean. I love that. The material might not be the same as whats inside my M3 but it's good enough for me. Everyone has there opinion on what they want in their cars. There's just so many different options out there today.
Even the Korean cars are getting better in quality and reliability. Might even consider one in the near future. Especially that new GV80 Sub from Genesis. What a beautiful car.
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      01-20-2020, 01:13 PM   #80
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People think an EV saves money... it only does if you buy an EV that is cheap. If you want anything that has some performance, it isn't worth it from a cost perspective. There are calculators out there that will convert your empg to fuel costs and there are many things to consider when charging. Does your electrical panel support the charger? (Charging off your existing 110V outlet is like filling up your tank using an eye dropper). If it doesn't, you'd need to upgrade your panel to handle the charge rates that EV manufacturers claim.

The acceleration below 50mph is great. P100D is even better, probably up to 70mph. That being said, most of the acceleration you do is below 70mph. Sure, it's slower than some combustion from a roll, but how often will that actually matter?
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      01-20-2020, 02:10 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by wdskukm3 View Post
Your buddy probably hammers that pedal a lot since it's pretty easy to go fast in the the Model 3 Performance. I have the same car and my range stays consistent pretty much all the time. It's only when it gets really cold the range will start dropping.
Yes the BMW build quality is better. But the Model 3 quality is not that bad. I did have alignment and squeaking issues but that was all minor. I would not let that bother me or make me get rid of the car. The car is fantastic.
Or that owner drives fast on the freeways.

My average consumption in my model 3p over 26k miles is 285 wh/mile which translates to about 236 miles charging to 90%, so Iím looking for a charger every 200 mi or so. My usage is 50/50 of bumper to bumper (morning commute) and 65-75mph flowing traffic (evening commute).

Itís a similar range as my old 911 turbo which gets 16.7mpg combined.

Maybe itís my own fault due to how my gasser is configured but there is an epic amount of noise in the cabin of my 911, due to the wide cup2 tires and loud exhaust, and the clutch is on the grabby side, with a light flywheel, so itís a full attention required, physical drive. Great for fun driving, a bit rough for a 30-60min daily commute

My f80 was a champ for commuting, with 18s, passive suspension and dct. But the reason I let it go was when I wanted to have fun, it lacked some of the intangibles of the more focused sports cars. Maybe if there was a fixed roof z4 with s55.....

As an aside, if the g80 m3 has a level 3 driver assist system that can handle stop and go traffic and curving highways and local roads well, I would be pretty interested, especially if the hov sticker program goes away in a few years.
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      01-20-2020, 02:16 PM   #82
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Being that you're in CA, I could totally understand an EV as a daily. The cost/benefit probably justifies it with such high gasoline costs and the amount of traffic. Every once in a while I toy with the idea of getting a daily EV, but in NC, gas prices are very reasonable and I simply don't drive enough miles in a year to justify the cost. Roads here have been getting more crowded, but it's still NOTHING compared to CA traffic.
Yeah that's the thing, there's tons of traffic here, gas is constantly over $4 a gallon (it's $5 in parts of LA), and I usually do a 2 hour drive to our second house in Monterey each weekend. This alone makes it the perfect commuter and road trip car, especially since I have free supercharging and a station by my house. We don't have nice open roads and backroads here in CA so driving can be a hassle at times. The Tesla just takes the edge off and makes it such a peaceful experience. I just did a road trip this weekend 3 hours north and man is it peaceful just sitting setting the autopilot and having it to all the work on the freeway and deal with traffic. When I got home last night though I did take the M3 out for some fun lol
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      01-20-2020, 05:59 PM   #83
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As an aside, if the g80 m3 has a level 3 driver assist system that can handle stop and go traffic and curving highways and local roads well, I would be pretty interested, especially if the hov sticker program goes away in a few years.
My F80 has the Driver's Assist Plus package. The other day I was driving out of my neighborhood and it started raining. I turned on my wipers, and it beeped loudly and momentarily slammed on the brakes. Guess the system thought it "saw" something dangerous through the camera. Only time it's ever done that, but scared the crap out of me none the less. That's about as autonomous as I'm willing to go.
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      01-20-2020, 09:08 PM   #84
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For further performance-related debate. I'd still buy the 992


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      01-20-2020, 09:26 PM   #85
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For further performance-related debate. I'd still buy the 992


Yes absolutely
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      01-20-2020, 11:23 PM   #86
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So just be faster than 11.8 second is what you're saying? Would a bootmod3 stage 1 do that? Haha
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      01-21-2020, 12:27 AM   #87
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So just be faster than 11.8 second is what you're saying? Would a bootmod3 stage 1 do that? Haha
it would be interesting to see how many model 3 performance owners have owned an 10-11 second quarter mile car. its not that impressive after a while. at least to me.

my sports have to do more than straight line stuff to get my heart thumping.
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      01-21-2020, 07:10 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by TheBreeze View Post
Total gimmick. What's bonkers to me is that any able bodied person would actually want this. Talk about lazy. What's next? An autonomous ass-wiping toilet bowl? Maybe Tesla could integrate one into next year's model. Think about the possibilities. You wouldn't even need to pull over.
Seems like you have not travelled to Japan much
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