EDC F8x Guys - Stop Wasting Money

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

Absolutely, Measure 455 times and cut ONCE.

The 3 on my short list in order of preference are

1. Ohlins
2. Bilstein Damptronic
3. JRZ Pro

Are there any other options for Sway Bars other than Dinan? Theirs look fine, but usually their stuff is conservative for street. Wonder how they would go with some serious suspension like the Ohlins?

There is nothing wrong with the stock bars.

Install a proper coilover, then add bars if you still think the car needs them.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

There is nothing wrong with the stock bars.

Install a proper coilover, then add bars if you still think the car needs them.

I tend to disagree slightly. The stock bars, whilst I'm sure they are almost up to the job, they aren't adjustable for when you lower the car. It will upset the geometry of the suspension.

So you would either need to add the Fall Line adjustable ends or Dinan Sway bars come with adjustable ends. Everyone forgets about this when they lower their car. They wonder why just putting lower springs in, upsets the balance of the car.

P.S. In some countries EDC is standard. So I never opted for it, it just came with the car. Does anyone know if the Mach Schnell Module for EDC delete is out for our F82 as yet?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

I tend to disagree slightly. The stock bars, whilst I'm sure they are almost up to the job, they aren't adjustable for when you lower the car. It will upset the geometry of the suspension.

So you would either need to add the Fall Line adjustable ends or Dinan Sway bars come with adjustable ends. Everyone forgets about this when they lower their car. They wonder why just putting lower springs in, upsets the balance of the car.

P.S. In some countries EDC is standard. So I never opted for it, it just came with the car. Does anyone know if the Mach Schnell Module for EDC delete is out for our F82 as yet?

Just add adjustable endlinks to get bars to their more ideal geometry, easily done, but not absolutely necessary.

[kitw]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

I tend to disagree slightly. The stock bars, whilst I'm sure they are almost up to the job, they aren't adjustable for when you lower the car. It will upset the geometry of the suspension.

The M4's suspension does not force the sway bar into a binding position. The only issues I've seen are with incorrectly installed KW HAS kits - properly designed coil overs aren't causing issues with the sway bars. Remember, we're not changing the geometry of the suspension by lowering it, it's moving through the same arc it normally moves through, just the static height is at a different point in that travel.

[kitw]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

Absolutely, Measure 455 times and cut ONCE.

The 3 on my short list in order of preference are

1. Ohlins
2. Bilstein Damptronic
3. JRZ Pro

Are there any other options for Sway Bars other than Dinan? Theirs look fine, but usually their stuff is conservative for street. Wonder how they would go with some serious suspension like the Ohlins?

You don't need sway bars, why reduce the independence of the suspension when you can run a VERY stiff spring with proper dampers?

The JRZ RS Pros are fantastic but why do you want to run an external reservoir on the street? The RSone and RStwo are fantastic pieces of equipment, and the Touring models are really nice for street/track use. The Bilsteins are nowhere near the same league, especially from a consistency point of view - Bilstein is not rebuilding PSS shocks anymore, so they are trash once they have miles on them.

the Ohlins will be nice, I'm sure but the JRZs are a class above. (I have JRZ RStwos)

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

Just add adjustable endlinks to get bars to their more ideal geometry, easily done, but not absolutely necessary.

That is what I am saying. However if I am going to that trouble, I may as well upgrade the sway bars whilst I am their. Dinan are only around $895 for Both and they have the adjustable end links included.

The rear on full is only 0-13% stiffer but the front can be made significantly stiffer at 57-103% Stiffer.



Seems a no brainer for track guys.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by kitw

You don't need sway bars, why reduce the independence of the suspension when you can run a VERY stiff spring with proper dampers?

The JRZ RS Pros are fantastic but why do you want to run an external reservoir on the street? The RSone and RStwo are fantastic pieces of equipment, and the Touring models are really nice for street/track use. The Bilsteins are nowhere near the same league, especially from a consistency point of view - Bilstein is not rebuilding PSS shocks anymore, so they are trash once they have miles on them.

the Ohlins will be nice, I'm sure but the JRZs are a class above. (I have JRZ RStwos)

I want it all, and I want it in one car. I want to be able to do a track day and then go out to dinner in the same car.

In this day and age, you can have your cake and eat it too.

The Ohlins TTX 46 Front & TTX36 Rear having the blow off valve and the recirc thing. (Fast & Slow) it should give you great streetability with uncompromised performance.

Of course you don't get a cheap price. But when you want everything, you have to pay for it.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

I want it all, and I want it in one car. I want to be able to do a track day and then go out to dinner in the same car.

In this day and age, you can have your cake and eat it too.

The Ohlins TTX 46 Front & TTX36 Rear having the blow off valve and the recirc thing. (Fast & Slow) it should give you great streetability with uncompromised performance.

Of course you don't get a cheap price. But when you want everything, you have to pay for it.

If you must have bars, go for it!

[shigeru]

I don't if I missed something, but any update on when the Bilstiens will be available!

[Mario_Kart]

Bilstien is usually very very slow at releasing their new products. When I had my E60 M5, it took them over a year to release the damptronic struts after they announced it and had it as "coming soon" on their website. If I had to guess, I am going to say these wont come out until middle of next year.

[Uponone76]

Originally Posted by Mario_Kart

Bilstien is usually very very slow at releasing their new products. When I had my E60 M5, it took them over a year to release the damptronic struts after they announced it and had it as "coming soon" on their website. If I had to guess, I am going to say these wont come out until middle of next year.

Let's hope you're wrong! Lol

Every vendor that I've spoken with states the suspension will be released in October. Whenever it releases this will be a day one purchase for me.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Mario_Kart

Bilstien is usually very very slow at releasing their new products. When I had my E60 M5, it took them over a year to release the damptronic struts after they announced it and had it as "coming soon" on their website. If I had to guess, I am going to say these wont come out until middle of next year.

You know who is also very slow with R&D is Ohlins, but everyone knows a great product takes lots of engineering time.

Now, if the the EDC guys make the switch, then they have wasted their money buying EDC in the first place.

[kitw]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

That is what I am saying. However if I am going to that trouble, I may as well upgrade the sway bars whilst I am their. Dinan are only around $895 for Both and they have the adjustable end links included.

The rear on full is only 0-13% stiffer but the front can be made significantly stiffer at 57-103% Stiffer.

Seems a no brainer for track guys.

No, aftermarket sway bars suck for track guys, especially from the perspective of putting power down. Sway bars are generally a band aid to make a car feel faster by eliminating body roll, and reducing the independence of the suspension.

And if you say, "no brainer" you haven't seen how bad the rear sway bar is to install. Leave them stock, and do adjustable endlinks.

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by kitw

No, aftermarket sway bars suck for track guys, especially from the perspective of putting power down. Sway bars are generally a band aid to make a car feel faster by eliminating body roll, and reducing the independence of the suspension.

And if you say, "no brainer" you haven't seen how bad the rear sway bar is to install. Leave them stock, and do adjustable endlinks.

No brainer when you get the Dealer to fit it. Like anything, they only suck when you go cheap. It has to of been engineered with a system in mind. Doubling the stiffness of the front one and back off the rear one a touch and you'll have no worries putting power down. (The Dinan ones have 3 and 4 settings)

I don't have the time to mess around fitting Mods. I am busy at Work, so I prefer to work harder at the things I do well, Pay someone else to stress about fitting the bars and other mods.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by kitw

No, aftermarket sway bars suck for track guys, especially from the perspective of putting power down. Sway bars are generally a band aid to make a car feel faster by eliminating body roll, and reducing the independence of the suspension.

And if you say, "no brainer" you haven't seen how bad the rear sway bar is to install. Leave them stock, and do adjustable endlinks.

I completely agree.

Sway bar should only be used to balance the handling of a car and should never be used to "make the car handle better". It may feel better, but at the expense of traction most of the time. Larger than stock rear bar makes the rear unstable under trailing braking and corner entry and at corner exit you almost have to straighten out before applying power. I typically run no bar or a very small one in the rear to maximize corner entry and exit speeds. However, a larger front bar could potentially do wonders on the strut type suspension BMW uses depending on your particular set-up.

[kitw]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

No brainer when you get the Dealer to fit it. Like anything, they only suck when you go cheap. It has to of been engineered with a system in mind. Doubling the stiffness of the front one and back off the rear one a touch and you'll have no worries putting power down. (The Dinan ones have 3 and 4 settings)

I don't have the time to mess around fitting Mods. I am busy at Work, so I prefer to work harder at the things I do well, Pay someone else to stress about fitting the bars and other mods.

Wow. So you're going to pay for the dealer to drop the subframe to make your car handle worse, because the dealer said it would be awesome?

Ok, well, clearly you're not learning anything else here, but hopefully for the rest of the more open minded people who might stumble across this, they can skip sway bars and not make their car handle worse.

[bluekn8286]

I agree with this; I've never been a proponent of buying new suspension unless tracking is something you do quite often or your car is a dedicated track car. BMW designed the car with its suspension for a specific reason.

[x.shell]

Originally Posted by bluekn8286

I agree with this; I've never been a proponent of buying new suspension unless tracking is something you do quite often or your car is a dedicated track car. BMW designed the car with its suspension for a specific reason.

Now that's just silly. I see what you did there.

• M4 CSL - I don't like the stock khakis. There's a good sale on Dinan jeans and rhinestones. I'm gonna get those jeans and put on the rhinestones because they made by Dinan.
• kitw - Dude, don't get the rhinestones; it'll ruin the jeans.
• HP Autosport - I agree. Don't get the rhinestones.
• bluekn8286 - I agree. Don't get the jeans. BMW made the khakis for a specific reason.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by bluekn8286

I agree with this; I've never been a proponent of buying new suspension unless tracking is something you do quite often or your car is a dedicated track car. BMW designed the car with its suspension for a specific reason.

The F80/82 stock suspension are very well designed. I'm not going to disclose a very reputable BMW suspension company, but the owner indicated his race suspension only shaved 1-2sec per lap on a typical track. He's a pro. That means to an average Joe is not going to improve much time on the track.

However, the stock wheel gap is ridiculous. The point of this thread is if you're going to lower, might as well go will full coils. Putting the wrong spring rate on stock struts will shorten the life of your OEM struts and the ride isn't pleasant.

[bluekn8286]

Originally Posted by ex o

Now that's just silly. I see what you did there.

• M4 CSL - I don't like the stock khakis. There's a good sale on Dinan jeans and rhinestones. I'm gonna get those jeans and put on the rhinestones because they made by Dinan.
• kitw - Dude, don't get the rhinestones; it'll ruin the jeans.
• HP Autosport - I agree. Don't get the rhinestones.
• bluekn8286 - I agree. Don't get the jeans. BMW made the khakis for a specific reason.

You are very fashion forward

[rubber_ducky]

I find the comments that "BMW engineers designed the [in this case suspension system but it could be anything] that way for a reason" funny in that oftentimes the same people making this claim will install a tune or exhaust or DPs or something else. I'm sure BMW designed those systems for a reason as well.

FWIW, i do agree that BMW designed each and every system of the F8x cars for a reason. And that reason is to be a one-size-fits-all system. However, as is the case with my own melon and most every one-size-fits-all baseball caps, this isn't always the case

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by rubber_ducky

I find the comments that "BMW engineers designed the [in this case suspension system but it could be anything] that way for a reason" funny in that oftentimes the same people making this claim will install a tune or exhaust or DPs or something else. I'm sure BMW designed those systems for a reason as well.

FWIW, i do agree that BMW designed each and every system of the F8x cars for a reason. And that reason is to be a one-size-fits-all system. However, as is the case with my own melon and most every one-size-fits-all baseball caps, this isn't always the case

Engine/exhaust/downpipes were designed for maximum performance while maintaining drive-ability/reliability/emission laws (after-market parts throw all those aspects out the window). Suspension is something the M3/M4 are tuned for performance. There is compromise in ride height to meet safety regulations and comfort (for someone who wants an M, but drives like a pansy). Overall, the stock suspension of the new M3/M4 is very well done. For track, all you really need is front cambers. Other than that, not many people on this planet can reduce their lap time with high-end coils on the new M3/M4.

This is why I said if you need to lower the car for looks, then go with full coils. Don't ruin the OEM struts, it's not designed for stiffer spring rate and shorter strokes.