Crank Hub Spun On New Bedplate Design

[FirstF80InSpace]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

This. It seems this really only happens on tuned cars. Part of the reason I'm not running BM3 right now. It's just not worth the hassle for 75HP and TQ.

This ^^^

I would be curious to know if there have been any SCH cases with non-tuned cars.

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

This. It seems this really only happens on tuned cars. Part of the reason I'm not running BM3 right now. It's just not worth the hassle for 75HP and TQ.

That doesn't seem to be 100% true http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1357574

Although if it does happen when you are stock, it should easily be covered under warranty

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

That doesn't seem to be 100% true http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1357574

Although if it does happen when you are stock, it should easily be covered under warranty

Yup. Zero hassle if this happened when stock. The worst part for me would be driving around in the 4 banger 330 loaner

[parabmw]

Good point. It's probably too rare in stock form.
The vast majority are tuned on here

[hdubf80]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

There have been very few cases actually confirmed on here. Why do you think BMW needs to recall vehicles

Plenty of stock cars have spun the crank hub. This is a mechanical issue that the engineers should have been aware of and solved before pushing the car out for public sale. If it does enough damage there goes your engine. Years later and many of reports later they still have ignored the issue.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

I really think we're getting close to having a solid fix for the SCH issue on the S55. Both the Gintani and Max PSI fixes look to be solid designs, with me leaning towards the Max Psi offering as it will probably be easier to perform while the engine is still in the car and comes with a simple jig to drill the pin holes. As long as the hardened pins hold-up, I think this is the answer.

Gintani's version looks promising as well, I'm just not sure how they plan on making the needed keyway in the crank snout, but I do like he solid one-piece machined hub. If they have a clever and effective way of drilling the keyway (with the engine still in the car), the Gintani version should be a good fix as well.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by hdubf80

Plenty of stock cars have spun the crank hub. This is a mechanical issue that the engineers should have been aware of and solved before pushing the car out for public sale. If it does enough damage there goes your engine. Years later and many of reports later they still have ignored the issue.

There isn?t enough numbers to say BMW has to 100% fix the problem.

Forum is too small of a sample size to say for certain this is a big problem for BMW. That is why I?m extremely doubtful for when ppl say, ?BMW has to fix this.?

Even among the forum members, it is very few. Only BMW will truly know the numbers that we guess on.

Edit: I’m still waiting for BP to fix the App bug -.-

[hdubf80]

Originally Posted by Arcades

There isn?t enough numbers to say BMW has to 100% fix the problem.

Forum is too small of a sample size to say for certain this is a big problem for BMW. That is why I?m extremely doubtful for when ppl say, ?BMW has to fix this.?

Even among the forum members, it is very few. Only BMW will truly know the numbers that we guess on.

True. But I?m sure there others who are not members that had this issue. I just would like to have the piece of mind knowing my investment will be fine.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by hdubf80

Plenty of stock cars have spun the crank hub. This is a mechanical issue that the engineers should have been aware of and solved before pushing the car out for public sale. If it does enough damage there goes your engine. Years later and many of reports later they still have ignored the issue.

Define "plenty" of cars. Honestly I havent seen many threads on here about SCH and the ones I have seen occasionally end in the fact it wasnt a SCH after all or the car was modified. This isnt like the rod bearing issue on the E9x M3, which was also blown out of proportion, but still had some validity. Unless I am missing something, where are all of these cars that have had a SCH?

[parabmw]

How many m owners on here...1000s? How many stock failures? 1...2. It's a good sampling I'd say.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

I really think we're getting close to having a solid fix for the SCH issue on the S55. Both the Gintani and Max PSI fixes look to be solid designs, with me leaning towards the Max Psi offering as it will probably be easier to perform while the engine is still in the car and comes with a simple jig to drill the pin holes. As long as the hardened pins hold-up, I think this is the answer.

Gintani's version looks promising as well, I'm just not sure how they plan on making the needed keyway in the crank snout, but I do like he solid one-piece machined hub. If they have a clever and effective way of drilling the keyway (with the engine still in the car), the Gintani version should be a good fix as well.

Cary what are the chances now that there would be a solid fix the torque affects the actual crank and or snaps it because of the torque. Before the hub bolt was the weak point so it just backed out and it prevented something major and catastrophic, would this fix be a double edge sword so to speak?

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by Jadar

Cary what are the chances now that there would be a solid fix the torque affects the actual crank and or snaps it because of the torque. Before the hub bolt was the weak point so it just backed out and it prevented something major and catastrophic, would this fix be a double edge sword so to speak?

Despite what some people may think, this design is not a "fuse". It is a cheap design carried over from the N54 days via the N55.

The crank itself isn't going to be damaged by locking the Crank Hub, multiple instances of a SCH can actually damage the crank snout, rendering the crank useless.

BMW knows this is an issue that needs to be addressed, because they actually did address it on the new B-series inline engines, like the B58. They moved the timing chain to the back of the engine and the crank has the timing chain/oil pump sprockets machined into the snout, thus removing the crank hub issue altogether.

That said, many platforms have a similar Crank Hub design as the N54/N55/S55 but feature woodruff keys, splines and other ways of securing the Crank Hub to the crank snout.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

Despite what some people may think, this design is not a "fuse". It is a cheap design carried over from the N54 days via the N55.

The crank itself isn't going to be damaged by locking the Crank Hub, multiple instances of a SCH can actually damage the crank snout, rendering the crank useless.

BMW knows this is an issue that needs to be addressed, because they actually did address it on the new B-series inline engines, like the B58. They moved the timing chain to the back of the engine and the crank has the timing chain/oil pump sprockets machines into the snout, thus removing the crank hub issue altogether.

That said, many platforms have a similar Crank Hub design as the N54/N55/S55 but feature woodruff keys, splines and other ways of securing the Crank Hub to the crank snout.

Are we not seeing this on the N54 and N55 side predominantly due to much lower torque figures. I haven?t seen a single n55, perhaps n54 has occurred but at such a low rate or even a single instance to get that type of power the n54 must have been heavily modded making the Info lost in translation.

One other thing, how will we really know of the crank hub fixes by gintani and others are really full proof? Will there be a substantial amount of R&D? Thanks

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by Jadar

Are we not seeing this on the N54 and N55 side predominantly due to much lower torque figures. I haven?t seen a single n55, perhaps n54 has occurred but at such a low rate or even a single instance to get that type of power the n54 must have been heavily modded making the Info lost in translation.

One other thing, how will we really know of the crank hub fixes by gintani and others are really full proof? Will there be a substantial amount of R&D? Thanks

Well, the N54 and N55 are actually very different engines as compared to the S55 and there are many instances of a SCH on both the N54 and N55.

The S55 while being a significantly different engine, also starts-out as a much higher powered engine from the factory and has much more potential stock as compared to either the N54 or the N55.

The S55 obviously has some nasty harmonic vibrations that maybe the other two engines didn't have, or at different frequencies and maybe some significant crank twist. BMW did revise the bedplate on the newer S55's, so that points to an issue that they're aware of.

As for these two aftermarket designs being "fool-proof", that remains to be seen. However, the issue is pretty simple.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

Well, the N54 and N55 are actually very different engines as compared to the S55 and there are many instances of a SCH on both the N54 and N55.

The S55 while being a significantly different engine, also starts-out as a much higher powered engine from the factory and has much more potential stock as compared to either the N54 or the N55.

The S55 obviously has some nasty harmonic vibrations that maybe the other two engines didn't have, or at different frequencies and maybe some significant crank twist. BMW did revise the bedplate on the newer S55's, so that points to an issue that they're aware of.

As for these two aftermarket designs being "fool-proof", that remains to be seen. However, the issue is pretty simple.

Can?t wait to see what the s58 has to offer. Very excited for that platform in 2022

How far in mods have you gotten on your s55? Are you running bm3 like you said you would?

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by Jadar

Can?t wait to see what the s58 has to offer. Very excited for that platform in 2022

How far in mods have you gotten on your s55? Are you running bm3 like you said you would?

The B-series engines will be the future for sure. The S58 will be the L6 to watch for.

Not only have I been involved with BM3 for quite awhile now, I'm running full E85 on the stock fuel system (have been for almost 7 months). Still on the stock turbos (for now).

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

Not only have I been involved with BM3 for quite awhile now, I'm running full E85 on the stock fuel system (have been for almost 7 months). Still on the stock turbos (for now).

Ah cool that?s bad ass. I haven?t been on this side of town for a while .

Did you get a custom progressive map as far as the torque goes?

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by Jadar

Ah cool that?s bad ass. I haven?t been on this side of town for a while .

Did you get a custom progressive map as far as the torque goes?

I'm a tuner, I can do whatever I want.

I do/did tune-in a slightly lower initial boost pressure target to limit the initial torque hit.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

I'm the tuner, I can do whatever I want.

Ah nice utilizing the custom end user to its fullest I like it. I saw your build in the past with jb4 and the settings were spot on. Good stuff there, that car has to move out like an angry bull. I love me some bm3 and the way they tune.

[parabmw]

How's the crankhub fix holding up?

[CloudVIII]

Originally Posted by parabmw

How's the crankhub fix holding up?

I ran a 5.8 60-130 yesterday. Seems to be good

[parabmw]

Originally Posted by CloudVIII

I ran a 5.8 60-130 yesterday. Seems to be good

How many miles and hard miles?
How much to install?