Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I wonder if there's some automotive chatter that they are hearing behind the scenes that's making them be unusually conservative with their allocations.

My dealership received four 2022 911 allocations this year. The first three came in May-ish when I first ordered my car; I was #3 on the list. They got one allocation in July, which is the one they slotted my build into in hopes that I'll get my AeroKit. They subsequently filled the May allocation that was previously mine.

Honestly I have no clue why.

I'm not overly familiar with how Porsche does things since I been with BMW long enough to get used to just able to get what you want, almost immediately without having to fight for it. Well, generally anyway.

If that BMW David person is canceling orders because they cannot fill it, or get allocations for them then something is happening beyond automotive that is constraining them. If it isn't semiconductor problem now, then it is something else that is doing it.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Honestly I have no clue why.

I'm not overly familiar with how Porsche does things since I been with BMW long enough to get used to just able to get what you want, almost immediately without having to fight for it. Well, generally anyway.

If that BMW David person is canceling orders because they cannot fill it, or get allocations for them then something is happening beyond automotive that is constraining them. If it isn't semiconductor problem now, then it is something else that is doing it.

That makes two of us. This is all new and I don't even have the perspective you have.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That makes two of us. This is all new and I don't even have the perspective you have.

haha, well I just like to learn

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Hopefully it's more than "think" The conventional product development metric is called "customer acquisition cost" or [B]CAC = the average cost to attract & secure a customer for a new product or service.

Yes, “think”. Effective polarizing design and marketing intensifies the relationship between the brand and the segment of customers who have or develop a strong affinity for the new direction. It requires an extremely deep and nuanced understanding of your target and a willingness to allow customers outside of it to churn away. It’s a high risk, high reward move.

Even gold-standard Porsche realized the need to refresh the customer base and acquire new customers by creating product lines where they can have permission to be more bold and change things up. They correctly determined that the Porsche customer would accept SUVs, cheaper models, etc if they were true to Porsche’s product design principles. Where would they be without the “brand-diluting” Boxster, Cayenne, and their derivatives?

There is a near-zero % chance that BMW has made any substantial decisions or course corrections with only a few months of sales data. Everything you see today was developed 18-24 months ago or more; no products today or in the near term reflect any decisions made based on social media backlash. No one knows how the grilles have impacted LTV yet, especially since sales are still quite brisk. During the Bangle years, media backlash didn’t translate to the numbers, so it’s unlikely that BMW will make any premature and reactionary decisions this time.

[fiveohwblow]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I wonder if there's some automotive chatter that they are hearing behind the scenes that's making them be unusually conservative with their allocations.

My dealership received four 2022 911 allocations this year. The first three came in May-ish when I first ordered my car; I was #3 on the list. They got one allocation in July, which is the one they slotted my build into in hopes that I'll get my AeroKit. They subsequently filled the May allocation that was previously mine.

Begs the question where/how are they profiting if not from 911 sales. Can’t keep a dealership alive on four (4) sales… I realize SUV’s have taken a front seat in us car sales, but, just how many cars does one dealership need to sell to remain profitable. Certainly they would want to sell more than FOUR 911’s if they received the allocation

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

Begs the question where/how are they profiting if not from 911 sales. Can't keep a dealership alive on four (4) sales… I realize SUV's have taken a front seat in us car sales, but, just how many cars does one dealership need to sell to remain profitable. Certainly they would want to sell more than FOUR

I've heard Porsche is one of the most profitable auto companies in the world. I can't remember the margins, but they were significant. I know the Cayenne really saved Porsche and kept them afloat (…along with VAG money). The 911 is definitely too niche to pay the bills.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Yes, "think". Effective polarizing design and marketing intensifies the relationship between the brand and the segment of customers who have or develop a strong affinity for the new direction. It requires an extremely deep and nuanced understanding of your target and a willingness to allow customers outside of it to churn away. It's a high risk, high reward move.

Even gold-standard Porsche realized the need to refresh the customer base and acquire new customers by creating product lines where they can have permission to be more bold and change things up. They correctly determined that the Porsche customer would accept SUVs, cheaper models, etc if they were true to Porsche's product design principles. Where would they be without the "brand-diluting" Boxster, Cayenne, and their derivatives?

There is a near-zero % chance that BMW has made any substantial decisions or course corrections with only a few months of sales data. Everything you see today was developed 18-24 months ago or more; no products today or in the near term reflect any decisions made based on social media backlash. No one knows how the grilles have impacted LTV yet, especially since sales are still quite brisk. During the Bangle years, media backlash didn't translate to the numbers, so it's unlikely that BMW will make any premature and reactionary decisions this time.

Excellent points!

[Multimodal]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

Begs the question where/how are they profiting if not from 911 sales. Can’t keep a dealership alive on four (4) sales… I realize SUV’s have taken a front seat in us car sales, but, just how many cars does one dealership need to sell to remain profitable. Certainly they would want to sell more than FOUR 911’s if they received the allocation

New vehicle sales are the lowest margin part of the auto dealership business. Parts and service are what keep the lights on. This is shown in AutoNation's annual report:

[NickyC]

This is getting insane, even the G82 USED values are going up lol. I just ran a quick check on Autotrader, there are only TWO new M4s within 500 miles of me (St. Louis area) and roughly three used ones. ALL the used ones are going for more than the price of a new car, look at this one good grief. Is the car shortage getting WORSE?

Jeece I'd swing by Carmax to see what they'd offer me (Car is totally stock with 800 miles on it so right up their alley) but I'd get whipsawed on any car I replaced it with. They actually had a G80 with 2k miles on it for sale over the weekend on their site for over MSRP, but it was gone within 24 hours. Bizarre times continue!

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by NickyC

This is getting insane, even the G82 USED values are going up lol. I just ran a quick check on Autotrader, there are only TWO new M4s within 500 miles of me (St. Louis area) and roughly three used ones. ALL the used ones are going for more than the price of a new car, look at this one good grief. Is the car shortage getting WORSE?

Jeece I'd swing by Carmax to see what they'd offer me (Car is totally stock with 800 miles on it so right up their alley) but I'd get whipsawed on any car I replaced it with. Bizarre times continue!

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

That one is clean too.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

Still better than the G8X

Minus the wheels it's dope!

[fiveohwblow]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

New vehicle sales are the lowest margin part of the auto dealership business. Parts and service are what keep the lights on. This is shown in AutoNation's annual report:

From where I’m sitting (my experience) revenues keep the lights on and appease shareholders where profits appease the owners wallets. Not to split hairs, I know the “profits” are in the back with dealers…. But, what do you have to work on if you sell 4 a year….

[Multimodal]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

From where I’m sitting (my experience) revenues keep the lights on and appease shareholders where profits appease the owners wallets. Not to split hairs, I know the “profits” are in the back with dealers…. But, what do you have to work on if you sell 4 a year….

A shit ton of SUVs and a handful of ridiculously overpriced used cars.

P.s. I agree providing each dealer with just 4 911 allocations is not sustainable.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by NickyC

This is getting insane, even the G82 USED values are going up lol. I just ran a quick check on Autotrader, there are only TWO new M4s within 500 miles of me (St. Louis area) and roughly three used ones. ALL the used ones are going for more than the price of a new car, look at this one good grief. Is the car shortage getting WORSE?

Jeece I'd swing by Carmax to see what they'd offer me (Car is totally stock with 800 miles on it so right up their alley) but I'd get whipsawed on any car I replaced it with. They actually had a G80 with 2k miles on it for sale over the weekend on their site for over MSRP, but it was gone within 24 hours. Bizarre times continue!

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

Everything used is up, market is absolutely ridiculous. My MB dealer is selling GLE loaners above sticker! Loaners!

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

From where I’m sitting (my experience) revenues keep the lights on and appease shareholders where profits appease the owners wallets. Not to split hairs, I know the “profits” are in the back with dealers…. But, what do you have to work on if you sell 4 a year….

For Porsche and most other car companies recently, it's all about SUVs.

Porsche would have not gotten to their current place if it wasn't for the first gen Cayenne. That car saved them in more ways then one because 911 and Cayman/Boxster wasn't where their cash flow was coming from. Where the car world was going mid 2000s, there was no way Porsche would have survived any longer without something else.

There were a lot of articles about this so it wasn't any sort of a secret the Cayenne, then Macan saved Porsche.

Porsche profits are mainly from car options. Anyone of you currently ordering or have ordered a Porsche would know this. They scalp the living heck out of you for everything. Of course, the way they say it is, you get to have the car exactly the way you want but what they don't say is, a 100k car doesn't have Power Folding Mirrors without you optioning it in. Up until last year, they still charge you for Apple Carplay, some Porsche cars still charge you for it. You can option a base Macan that is at a reasonable 56k into 80k MSRP without really blinking. That is where their $$ comes from.

[Peertwelve]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

A shit ton of SUVs and a handful of ridiculously overpriced used cars.

P.s. I agree providing each dealer with just 4 911 allocations is not sustainable.

Speaking of used Cars… did you pull the trigger yet? That white 718 would do nicely

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Peertwelve

Speaking of used Cars… did you pull the trigger yet? That white 718 would do nicely

I want to know this too.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Everything used is up, market is absolutely ridiculous. My MB dealer is selling GLE loaners above sticker! Loaners!

Consumers seem to be doubling down on quality products and services. Businesses that were winning before the pandemic largely seem to be winning to a greater extent now. Anecdotally, practically all of my successful friends are doing better now than they ever have.

Yes, all boats have risen, but some are definitely sitting closer to the apex of the wave than others. It’ll be interesting to see where the G8x lands.

[Multimodal]

Originally Posted by Peertwelve

Speaking of used Cars… did you pull the trigger yet? That white 718 would do nicely

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I want to know this too.

I am currently in discussions on three white one-owner clean-Carfax manual-transmission 718 Caymans. I am likely to buy the cheapest one.

• Cathedral VW in Palm Springs has a 2017 Cayman S in white with a black interior, 14-way seats and a good collection of daily driver options (e.g., Premium Package with bi-xenon PDLS+ lights, two-zone auto climate control, heated seats, dimming mirrors; power folding mirrors; Bose, Navigation, etc.). 28k miles. Warranty expired in January 2021. It's listed for $60,889 ($976/mo.) and they are serious about not negotiating. It would cost me $600 to fly down to Palm Springs and drive the car home. https://www.vwofpalmsprings.com/inve...ab2a87hs285875
  
• Porsche Bethesda has a CPO 2018 718 Cayman GTS in Carrara White with a black interior, 18-way seats and a great collection of daily driver options (e.g., Premium Plus which adds ambient lighting and keyless entry to the Premium Package) for $79,998 ($1282/mo.). 26k miles and CPO warranty through March 2024. I offered $70K but haven't heard back. It would cost me $2500 to get the car shipped cross-country. https://www.porschebethesda.com/cert...f8d61f807a.htm
  
• A private seller has listed a 2019 718 Cayman GTS in white with GTS alcantara interior (black with red stitching) and "race car spec": full carbon bucket seats and minimal options. 2K miles and plenty of factory warranty left. They're asking $85,000 ($1362/mo.); I've offered $80,000, assuming my 40" waistband can fit in the seats. Waiting to hear back. I could go pick this up on my lunch break - it's a local listing. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto...349970579.html

All good options. If everyone is firm on their price I would find the $20K-$25K cost delta between the S and GTS hard to justify. I should know more tomorrow and will report back.

I'm currently registered to run my X5 50i M Sport at the BMW HPDE at Thunderhill in late August. My goal is to take a new-to-me sports car instead.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

I am currently in discussions on three white one-owner clean-Carfax manual-transmission 718 Caymans. I am likely to buy the cheapest one.

• Cathedral VW in Palm Springs has a 2017 Cayman S in white with a black interior, 14-way seats and a good collection of daily driver options (e.g., Premium Package with bi-xenon PDLS+ lights, two-zone auto climate control, heated seats, dimming mirrors; power folding mirrors; Bose, Navigation, etc.). 28k miles. Warranty expired in January 2021. It's listed for $60,889 ($976/mo.) and they are serious about not negotiating. It would cost me $600 to fly down to Palm Springs and drive the car home. https://www.vwofpalmsprings.com/inve...ab2a87hs285875
  
• Porsche Bethesda has a CPO 2018 718 Cayman GTS in Carrara White with a black interior, 18-way seats and a great collection of daily driver options (e.g., Premium Plus which adds ambient lighting and keyless entry to the Premium Package) for $79,998 ($1282/mo.). 26k miles and CPO warranty through March 2024. I offered $70K but haven't heard back. It would cost me $2500 to get the car shipped cross-country. https://www.porschebethesda.com/cert...f8d61f807a.htm
  
• A private seller has listed a 2019 718 Cayman GTS in white with GTS alcantara interior (black with red stitching) and "race car spec": full carbon bucket seats and minimal options. 2K miles and plenty of factory warranty left. They're asking $85,000 ($1362/mo.); I've offered $80,000, assuming my 40" waistband can fit in the seats. Waiting to hear back. I could go pick this up on my lunch break - it's a local listing. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto...349970579.html

All good options. If everyone is firm on their price I would find the $20K-$25K cost delta between the S and GTS hard to justify. I should know more tomorrow and will report back.

I'm currently registered to run my X5 50i M Sport at the BMW HPDE at Thunderhill in late August. My goal is to take a new-to-me sports car instead.

I/we are seriously rooting for you bro. We're all hoping to hear some good P-Car news from you in the coming days.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

I thought this was a really thoughtful and almost insightful post until ...

Story of my life bro, story of my life.

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Everything used is up, market is absolutely ridiculous. My MB dealer is selling GLE loaners above sticker! Loaners!

Because of the implication.