Preventing injector failure on E85

papasmurf_m3 · 02-05-2021, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineF80

What kind of issues did you run into with full E85?

Clogged injectors that caused misfires and ate a plug. No bueno.

papasmurf_m3 · 02-05-2021, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Hey papasmurf_m3 do you have any log info of your HPFP PSI target on E50/60?

Hey Jimmy. I would. So, I asked my tuner, He frowned at the idea of sharing my logs.

Sorry dude!

TopJimmy · 02-05-2021, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Hey papasmurf_m3 do you have any log info of your HPFP PSI target on E50/60?

Hey Jimmy. I would. So, I asked my tuner, He frowned at the idea of sharing my logs.

Sorry dude!

If you can't share the log maybe you can PM me with the HPFP target PSI? If it's only slightly lower than what we run for E85 it might help me save injectors.

terahertz · 02-05-2021, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

If you can't share the log maybe you can PM me with the HPFP target PSI? If it's only slightly lower than what we run for E85 it might help me save injectors.

I'm also interested in this data point as I am looking to get an E85 tune after bm3 map switching is released.

Twistm4 · 02-05-2021, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineF80

What are your 60-130mph times and on which tires?
Do you have any dyno data?

Thanks!

If you go to the 60 130 thread you'll see my entries in bold. No dyno yet, I dynoed on e30 mhd 550 but custom tune has a few v dyno plots around the 618-628 range.

dirtygrid · 02-05-2021, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twistm4

If you go to the 60 130 thread you'll see my entries in bold. No dyno yet, I dynoed on e30 mhd 550 but custom tune has a few v dyno plots around the 618-628 range.

618-628whp on just E50 and bolt ons?

Bmwlmr99 · 02-05-2021, 07:25 PM

I stayed away from e50 , e85...and run 100 octane when I want to play ... no injector issues, no crank hub fix at all an I ran a similar m4 on full e85 and was only a half car off his pace from 50 to 130 or so....and I have 96,000 miles too full bolt on VF 100 octane tune

Twistm4 · 02-05-2021, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtygrid

618-628whp on just E50 and bolt ons?

Nope. I have never dynoed this set up. But when I put my log that dynoed 550 into it, it read almost exactly the same. You just have to set the configurations up right/specs.

dirtygrid · 02-05-2021, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwlmr99

I stayed away from e50 , e85...and run 100 octane when I want to play ... no injector issues, no crank hub fix at all an I ran a similar m4 on full e85 and was only a half car off his pace from 50 to 130 or so....and I have 96,000 miles too full bolt on VF 100 octane tune

Where do you get your 100 octane? I feel like it's way harder to get than E85

AlpineF80 · 02-05-2021, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3

Clogged injectors that caused misfires and ate a plug. No bueno.

Thanks for clarifying.
Do you use a fuel filter now with the flex fuel kit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twistm4

If you go to the 60 130 thread you'll see my entries in bold. No dyno yet, I dynoed on e30 mhd 550 but custom tune has a few v dyno plots around the 618-628 range.

Thanks!

Bmwlmr99 · 02-05-2021, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtygrid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwlmr99

I stayed away from e50 , e85...and run 100 octane when I want to play ... no injector issues, no crank hub fix at all an I ran a similar m4 on full e85 and was only a half car off his pace from 50 to 130 or so....and I have 96,000 miles too full bolt on VF 100 octane tune

Where do you get your 100 octane? I feel like it's way harder to get than E85

There is a sunco dealer not to far from me in Houston, has 100 ,104, 98 etc...

cookiesowns · 02-14-2021, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

If you can't share the log maybe you can PM me with the HPFP target PSI? If it's only slightly lower than what we run for E85 it might help me save injectors.

Just a reminder these injectors are really only rated for 20Mpa, some tunes run in the 25-27.5Mpa range. That's a significant difference!

Eric SS · 02-25-2021, 12:33 PM

Always run a fuel filter with E85 that is no larger than 10 microns. At least here where I am it is dirty as hell. I run a 6 micron Fuelab 5" filter just before the rail on my SS.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fue-81831-1

Edit: Oh, and check/change it often. Even consider running a tank of 91 every 4th tank or so to clean out some of the gel gunk that builds in it.

hellokitty · 07-25-2021, 05:38 PM

Some good information here! Thanks

ICantDrive4Sht · 07-26-2021, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Some good information here! Thanks

Thanks for bringing this thread to my eyes.
Can't believe i've missed this

theweebabySeamus · 07-31-2021, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiesowns

Just a reminder these injectors are really only rated for 20Mpa, some tunes run in the 25-27.5Mpa range. That's a significant difference!

I've wondered how much things would have to be scaled back to keep the injectors within their range. Might be worth it if it's not a huge decrease in performance.

hellokitty · 07-31-2021, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theweebabySeamus

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiesowns

Just a reminder these injectors are really only rated for 20Mpa, some tunes run in the 25-27.5Mpa range. That's a significant difference!

I've wondered how much things would have to be scaled back to keep the injectors within their range. Might be worth it if it's not a huge decrease in performance.

What I'm planning to do is run Hot Shots LX4 (an absolute must to keep ethanol from frying your fuel system due to lack of lubrication) as well as turning down my flex fuel blend to around E40-E50.

Full E85 is really convenient and the extra power is nice, but running it long term is going to stress out fuel components more quickly.

Where I am at, full E85 measures around E75, so it isn't a huge drop in performance. The tuner can set max power based on your highest ethanol content and it doesn't have to be 85% ethanol. There really isn't much of a power difference beyond E50-E60 IMO.

ONEof500 · 07-31-2021, 02:17 PM

@Commanderwiggin

Two questions how do you feel about adding 2 gallons of e85 to California 91 octane on a stock car? Recently replaced plugs looked very clean.

2nd Thoughts on injector cleaner on stock car running regular gas? I don't do the mix above every fill up but when I do you can feel it the difference vs 91.

TopJimmy · 07-31-2021, 02:35 PM

Guys,
Sales@Kratos engineers called Bosch to check on this. The "stuck injector" problem is caused by the overpressure from running E85. The HPFPs Target PSI needs to be jacked way up around 3900 to get you the fuel volume you need. The injectors have stainless steel bodies so they don't corrode or get stuck. It's the gate inside that breaks.

My injector failed on E85 while running lube religiously.

theweebabySeamus · 08-01-2021, 03:35 PM

Has anybody ever sent in a fuel filter from the Bend kit (or others) to be analyzed for particulate?

hellokitty · 08-01-2021, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theweebabySeamus

Has anybody ever sent in a fuel filter from the Bend kit (or others) to be analyzed for particulate?

There is a flow meter on the filter housing no? That's how you know when it needs to be changed.

theweebabySeamus · 08-02-2021, 12:14 AM

I just mean to see if it’s really catching as much from the e85 as people think.

02-05-2021, 07:25 PM	#29
Bmwlmr99 First Lieutenant 209 Rep 314 Posts Drives: Bmw m4 Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	I stayed away from e50 , e85...and run 100 octane when I want to play ... no injector issues, no crank hub fix at all an I ran a similar m4 on full e85 and was only a half car off his pace from 50 to 130 or so....and I have 96,000 miles too full bolt on VF 100 octane tune
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-25-2021, 12:33 PM	#35
Eric SS Lieutenant 195 Rep 467 Posts Drives: 2016 Chevy SS Sedan Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Phoenix iTrader: (0)	Always run a fuel filter with E85 that is no larger than 10 microns. At least here where I am it is dirty as hell. I run a 6 micron Fuelab 5" filter just before the rail on my SS. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fue-81831-1 Edit: Oh, and check/change it often. Even consider running a tank of 91 every 4th tank or so to clean out some of the gel gunk that builds in it. __________________ 2011 335is Black/Oyster. 1 of 46 without moonroof (total of all years): JB4 E50 tune, gone 2013 335i M Sport JB4: Estoril Blue gone 2018 M4 ZCP: current 2023 X3M Comp: current
	Appreciate 1 dirtygrid15.50 Quote

07-25-2021, 05:38 PM	#36
hellokitty Brigadier General 2894 Rep 3,726 Posts Drives: '17 M3 ZCP DCT Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Southern California iTrader: (2)	Some good information here! Thanks
	Appreciate 1 Commanderwiggin2048.00 Quote

07-31-2021, 02:17 PM	#40
ONEof500 First Lieutenant 165 Rep 354 Posts Drives: 2017 M3 30 Jahre Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: California iTrader: (0)	@Commanderwiggin Two questions how do you feel about adding 2 gallons of e85 to California 91 octane on a stock car? Recently replaced plugs looked very clean. 2nd Thoughts on injector cleaner on stock car running regular gas? I don't do the mix above every fill up but when I do you can feel it the difference vs 91.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-31-2021, 02:35 PM	#41
TopJimmy Major General 5448 Rep 5,138 Posts Drives: 2023 M3 Comp xDrive Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Chester County, PA iTrader: (5)	Guys, Sales@Kratos engineers called Bosch to check on this. The "stuck injector" problem is caused by the overpressure from running E85. The HPFPs Target PSI needs to be jacked way up around 3900 to get you the fuel volume you need. The injectors have stainless steel bodies so they don't corrode or get stuck. It's the gate inside that breaks. My injector failed on E85 while running lube religiously. __________________ '18 F80 Base 6MT \| '19 F82 Exec DCT \| '18 F82 Comp Exec DCT \| '23 G80cx
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08-01-2021, 03:35 PM	#42
theweebabySeamus Captain 373 Rep 901 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (1)	Has anybody ever sent in a fuel filter from the Bend kit (or others) to be analyzed for particulate?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-02-2021, 12:14 AM	#44
theweebabySeamus Captain 373 Rep 901 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (1)	I just mean to see if it’s really catching as much from the e85 as people think.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

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