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      04-13-2021, 06:53 PM   #1
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Looks like Our M3/M4 will continue to go up in value

Just read this and it explains why the market has gone the wrong direction. Thankfully I got my car at a hell of a price considering todayís market. You now have a good chance at getting an even better deal on your trade in if your upgrading to another car.

My advice to anyone that might still be looking to buy should consider getting one ASAP before prices keep going up. Without new car sales demand will control the market.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us...se-11618339300

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/16/car-...nventory-.html

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/21/busin...ply/index.html
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      04-13-2021, 07:02 PM   #2
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Very interesting, I have a Z06 to sell. I will see how it goes.
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      04-13-2021, 07:55 PM   #3
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Wait till you see what happens to the values of used ICE sports cars like the M3/4 when the US bans the sales of new gasoline powered vehicles (assuming gasoline is still easily accessible)
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      04-13-2021, 08:09 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Suds View Post
Very interesting, I have a Z06 to sell. I will see how it goes.
My buddy just did a KBB on his 09 Z06 with about 40k on it and got it estimated at 42k on the low end. We were both shocked.
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      04-13-2021, 08:20 PM   #5
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I get it if you have cash but are used car loan interest rates low in the US? They are high in Canada (typically around 5% or higher) and I feel on late model used vehicles you are better off financing a new vehicle when manufacturers are offering low interest rates of 2% or better.
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      04-13-2021, 08:32 PM   #6
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I was shooting the breeze with a salesman at a local BMW dealer last weekend. Super nice guy, we talked all about the new M3/M4 and the insanity that's going on in the used car market. He made a flat out offer for my 18 Comp 6MT with 29k miles on it, and the offer was higher than I saw on blue book. Of course my car has some very tasteful (in my opinion of course hah) valuable mods and looks a helluva lot more expensive than it actually is (my opinion x2). Told me they'd offer the money on the spot, and they'd have my car sold within 48 hours at a sizeable profit. I have no idea how he could offer me more than the blue book and still make a profit, but his words not mine. He said the later model LCI Comp 6MTs are all commanding a high premium now. He was very savvy, he knew exactly what I had.

He said they can't keep any nice used cars in stock. He told me he has friends at different dealerships who've been flipping used cars so fast, often the same day they come in, that folks are having titles delayed big time. He said it's not uncommon for buyers to have to wait 60 days before the title shows up, which I think is just nuts. He was of course very clear that wasn't happening at HIS dealership.

His best advice however, was that if you're buying a car now just go new. Used car prices are so insanely jacked up, that you're honestly hurting yourself by not going new and getting the warranty, maintenance, sometimes 0% interest on new car loans, etc. He stated he's been selling used cars 2-3 years old for less than 5k from the new car price and that new car is sitting right there on the lot! He's just dumbfounded that people are still buying used at this point if the price is anywhere close to a new model!

Crazy crazy times for sure.
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      04-13-2021, 09:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
I was shooting the breeze with a salesman at a local BMW dealer last weekend. Super nice guy, we talked all about the new M3/M4 and the insanity that's going on in the used car market. He made a flat out offer for my 18 Comp 6MT with 29k miles on it, and the offer was higher than I saw on blue book. Of course my car has some very tasteful (in my opinion of course hah) valuable mods and looks a helluva lot more expensive than it actually is (my opinion x2). Told me they'd offer the money on the spot, and they'd have my car sold within 48 hours at a sizeable profit. I have no idea how he could offer me more than the blue book and still make a profit, but his words not mine. He said the later model LCI Comp 6MTs are all commanding a high premium now. He was very savvy, he knew exactly what I had.

He said they can't keep any nice used cars in stock. He told me he has friends at different dealerships who've been flipping used cars so fast, often the same day they come in, that folks are having titles delayed big time. He said it's not uncommon for buyers to have to wait 60 days before the title shows up, which I think is just nuts. He was of course very clear that wasn't happening at HIS dealership.

His best advice however, was that if you're buying a car now just go new. Used car prices are so insanely jacked up, that you're honestly hurting yourself by not going new and getting the warranty, maintenance, sometimes 0% interest on new car loans, etc. He stated he's been selling used cars 2-3 years old for less than 5k from the new car price and that new car is sitting right there on the lot! He's just dumbfounded that people are still buying used at this point if the price is anywhere close to a new model!

Crazy crazy times for sure.
Well when the new model happens to have a buck tooth as a front bumper Iím not surprised the new models are not being sold. As for interest rates right now itís can be expensive at 5% private party; However, if you use Bank of America and do their used dealer auto loans you can get it at 2.6%. I bought a 2015 f83 for $38,900 with 38k miles and fully loaded and got a 2.6% interest on the loan (rates also vary by the state).

Thatís pretty much why the dealer can take your car as a trade in and flip it within 24 hours. Since these cars are priced so high going from 2.5% to 5% is the difference of about 4k over the life of the Loan which means if you can get a lower rate by going to the dealer you can pay a higher price than if you bought it private party and still get a better deal. On cheaper cars this doesnít exactly workout the same way.

Last edited by buster84; 04-13-2021 at 09:18 PM..
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      04-13-2021, 09:26 PM   #8
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Yeah it's insane at the moment. The lease on my 8K miles F80 ZCP 6MT is up in Sept, and I've been surprised to see current street prices compared to my residual value.

The dealer kept leaving me voicemails asking me to consider trading for a new car. I eventually called the sales guys back and listened to his pitch. When he was done I said: yeah, but have you looked at the snout of the new M3? His response: "I know, I know, you're not the first one!"

I told him I was just having fun and not ready to make a move. He said they're looking for used cars and would make a good offer if I changed my mind.
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      04-13-2021, 09:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buster84 View Post
Well when the new model happens to have a buck tooth as a front bumper I’m not surprised the new models are not being sold. As for interest rates right now it’s can be expensive at 5% private party; However, if you use Bank of America and do their used dealer auto loans you can get it at 2.6%. I bought a 2015 f83 for $38,900 with 38k miles and fully loaded and got a 2.6% interest on the loan (rates also vary by the state).

That’s pretty much why the dealer can take your car as a trade in and flip it within 24 hours. Since these cars are priced so high going from 2.5% to 5% is the difference of about 4k over the life of the Loan which means if you can get a lower rate by going to the dealer you can pay a higher price than if you bought it private party and still get a better deal. On cheaper cars this doesn’t exactly workout the same way.
Good explanation thanks! Congrats on the awesome new car as well!
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      04-13-2021, 09:51 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by PK1 View Post
Yeah it's insane at the moment. The lease on my 8K miles F80 ZCP 6MT is up in Sept, and I've been surprised to see current street prices compared to my residual value.

The dealer kept leaving me voicemails asking me to consider trading for a new car. I eventually called the sales guys back and listened to his pitch. When he was done I said: yeah, but have you looked at the snout of the new M3? His response: "I know, I know, you're not the first one!"

I told him I was just having fun and not ready to make a move. He said they're looking for used cars and would make a good offer if I changed my mind.
Since you know your residual cost on the car and what the buyback price is, Iíd go to another dealer and ask them what they would buy it for out of curiosity because I bet you can get more for it buy simply buying out your lease and trading it in (if thatís what you want to do)

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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Good explanation thanks! Congrats on the awesome new car as well!
Haha no problem. I only understand it because I recently went through this when I got my car. Iím really surprised at the used market right now, itís crazy to see the prices of bmws so high. Even basic e90s went up by a lot and surprised me when I browsed them out of curiosity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suds View Post
Very interesting, I have a Z06 to sell. I will see how it goes.
Donít forget to get a quote from Carmax and carava since they always paid more than typical dealers and I get the feeling they still do. Plus it can be used as a bargaing tool to say carmax offered this, if you want my car itíll be blah blah blah. This is probably the first time in a long time where car owners have the upper hand.

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      04-14-2021, 02:46 AM   #11
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The dealer I've gotten my last two M cars from.. cold called me and basically asked me to trade in my '20 Heritage Edition for one of the 4 M3/4s they have sitting on the lot. He said he could get me into one for the same monthly payment I'm making now and no cash needed down. I politely declined. They know they have turds on their hands.
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      04-14-2021, 07:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buster84 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PK1 View Post
Yeah it's insane at the moment. The lease on my 8K miles F80 ZCP 6MT is up in Sept, and I've been surprised to see current street prices compared to my residual value.

The dealer kept leaving me voicemails asking me to consider trading for a new car. I eventually called the sales guys back and listened to his pitch. When he was done I said: yeah, but have you looked at the snout of the new M3? His response: "I know, I know, you're not the first one!"

I told him I was just having fun and not ready to make a move. He said they're looking for used cars and would make a good offer if I changed my mind.
Since you know your residual cost on the car and what the buyback price is, I’d go to another dealer and ask them what they would buy it for out of curiosity because I bet you can get more for it buy simply buying out your lease and trading it in (if that’s what you want to do)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Good explanation thanks! Congrats on the awesome new car as well!
Haha no problem. I only understand it because I recently went through this when I got my car. I’m really surprised at the used market right now, it’s crazy to see the prices of bmws so high. Even basic e90s went up by a lot and surprised me when I browsed them out of curiosity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suds View Post
Very interesting, I have a Z06 to sell. I will see how it goes.
Don’t forget to get a quote from Carmax and carava since they always paid more than typical dealers and I get the feeling they still do. Plus it can be used as a bargaing tool to say carmax offered this, if you want my car it’ll be blah blah blah. This is probably the first time in a long time where car owners have the upper hand.
Not ready to trade as I haven't yet decided what my next car will be. There aren't too many options out there for a sports sedan with a manual transmission. I can't use a Porsche as a daily, I need something more practical. This leaves the options of buying my F80 at the end of the lease or getting a G80.

I'll have a number of months to decide.
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      04-14-2021, 07:23 AM   #13
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Porsche prices are stupid too so it doesnít make sense to trade up.

I was looking at a manual low mile 2016 GTS. It was the last NA 911 with a back seat so I can take the kids.

It was in the low $90ks in 2019. Now itís like $20-30 k more.
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      04-14-2021, 07:27 AM   #14
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Porsche prices are stupid too so it doesnít make sense to trade up.

I was looking at a manual low mile 2016 GTS. It was the last NA 911 with a back seat so I can take the kids.

It was in the low $90ks in 2019. Now itís like $20-30 k more.
exactly. its sell high and buy high so whats the point.
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      04-14-2021, 09:07 AM   #15
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Wait till you see what happens to the values of used ICE sports cars like the M3/4 when the US bans the sales of new gasoline powered vehicles (assuming gasoline is still easily accessible)
I wouldn't worry about that too much. You can be absolutely sure the same freedom loving fuckers who have set the ban for new car ICE sales will quickly broaden the scope and find a way to remove ICE cars from the road.

The politics of banning stuff is well rehearsed and can be seen in other countries, like Spain in Europe. 20 year old cars are banned from major cities like Barcelona, so friends who live there have gone from one car to zero once their older car (year 2005 diesel passenger car for example) is no longer legal to use.

As usual, the people getting fucked are the poor bastards who don't have money. People with money can always buy a Taycan or something and continue to drive around.

You can be sure the future in the US entails massive restrictions on private vehicle ownership. If not an outright ban, they will simply make it cost prohibitive.
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      04-14-2021, 09:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
His best advice however, was that if you're buying a car now just go new. Used car prices are so insanely jacked up, that you're honestly hurting yourself by not going new and getting the warranty, maintenance, sometimes 0% interest on new car loans, etc. He stated he's been selling used cars 2-3 years old for less than 5k from the new car price and that new car is sitting right there on the lot! He's just dumbfounded that people are still buying used at this point if the price is anywhere close to a new model!

Crazy crazy times for sure.
That's what I was saying. This phenomenon isn't happening in Canada but from an outsider point of view it seems like purchasing late model used in the US market doesn't seem overly sensible in a lot of cases at inflated prices when you can get near 0% financing on new vehicles.
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      04-14-2021, 10:18 AM   #17
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I get it if you have cash but are used car loan interest rates low in the US? They are high in Canada (typically around 5% or higher) and I feel on late model used vehicles you are better off financing a new vehicle when manufacturers are offering low interest rates of 2% or better.
You can get 2% APR used auto loans here in the U.S. For example: https://www.dcu.org/borrow/vehicle-l...uto-loans.html
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      04-14-2021, 10:36 AM   #18
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That's what I was saying. This phenomenon isn't happening in Canada but from an outsider point of view it seems like purchasing late model used in the US market doesn't seem overly sensible in a lot of cases at inflated prices when you can get near 0% financing on new vehicles.
If the difference in price is only 5-10k for a new car vs used and you get 0% interest then it makes sense to go new. The only new car that I bought was a 2018 red XSE camery for the wife for 25k and got a loan at 3% I could have used their financing, but I put down 15k on the car and I planned to pay it off within a year so i didnt care about the rate and choose bank of america for conveince.

Suprisingly that camery barley has 15k miles on it out of curiosity I just went online and Carvana actually offered me $25,300 for it. Wow im shocked, 3 years old and I could sell if for what i paid. Even the M4 that I just bought for $38,900 could be sold today for what I just paid at a dealer last month. Usually I'd expect to have overpaid, but I guess my buy was just right. The dealer must have gotten this car at a hella of a trade in price then.

For anyone wondering, carvana only asks you a few basic questions and gives you an offer if your curious what they'd offer you. Also rates change based on zip codes/states.
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      04-14-2021, 10:38 AM   #19
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one reason why F8X prices may be increasing==>
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      04-14-2021, 12:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I wouldn't worry about that too much. You can be absolutely sure the same freedom loving fuckers who have set the ban for new car ICE sales will quickly broaden the scope and find a way to remove ICE cars from the road.

The politics of banning stuff is well rehearsed and can be seen in other countries, like Spain in Europe. 20 year old cars are banned from major cities like Barcelona, so friends who live there have gone from one car to zero once their older car (year 2005 diesel passenger car for example) is no longer legal to use.

As usual, the people getting fucked are the poor bastards who don't have money. People with money can always buy a Taycan or something and continue to drive around.

You can be sure the future in the US entails massive restrictions on private vehicle ownership. If not an outright ban, they will simply make it cost prohibitive.
I hate how right you are on this lmao I was trying to be optimistic but yeah we're all for sure screwed😂
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      04-14-2021, 12:23 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I wouldn't worry about that too much. You can be absolutely sure the same freedom loving fuckers who have set the ban for new car ICE sales will quickly broaden the scope and find a way to remove ICE cars from the road.

The politics of banning stuff is well rehearsed and can be seen in other countries, like Spain in Europe. 20 year old cars are banned from major cities like Barcelona, so friends who live there have gone from one car to zero once their older car (year 2005 diesel passenger car for example) is no longer legal to use.

As usual, the people getting fucked are the poor bastards who don't have money. People with money can always buy a Taycan or something and continue to drive around.

You can be sure the future in the US entails massive restrictions on private vehicle ownership. If not an outright ban, they will simply make it cost prohibitive.
There will be a mass exodus from California then. Both cars and people. Thanks to Newsom. Smh
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      04-14-2021, 12:26 PM   #22
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The end of the ICE age is 9 years away in the UK and four years away in Norway 😢

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...hicles-to-2030
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