Blown motors CHECK IN

[StockM4]

Got a few questions, recently blew my motor, doing a built motor.
Who has built a S55 motor?

[TopJimmy]

QUICK SUMMARY:
After investigation PI failed, not Paul. See page 2.

I have one being built now. I didn't blow up my current motor, but was lucky to buy a spare as a builder for drag racing.

How did you blow up yours?

[StockM4]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

I have one being built now. I didn't blow up my current motor, but was lucky to buy a spare as a builder for drag racing.

How did you blow up yours?

Well i was told it was due to bad tuning.

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by StockM4

Well i was told it was due to bad tuning.

Any of the big tuners? what fuel?

[StockM4]

Originally Posted by sly1types

Any of the big tuners? what fuel?

Yes big known tuner.
I was full e85 + pi

[nioh_lbbm2]

Originally Posted by StockM4

Yes big known tuner.
I was full e85 + pi

Cary Jordan?

[StockM4]

Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2

Cary Jordan?

Nope lmfao i shoulda went JordanTuned haha.
Don't know if I should expose the tuner, not really my style of handling things but what happened was not right, and i at the very least just wanted a refund for tuning.

[nioh_lbbm2]

Pretty sure both Cary and Paul Johnson are responsible for blowing several motors. Those are the two big names so I assume you had one or the other.

[StockM4]

Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2

Pretty sure both Cary and Paul Johnson are responsible for blowing several motors. Those are the two big names so I assume you had one or the other.

I have yet to find a JordanTuned car that was blown as fast as mine was or just blown in general lol. Mine didn't even last 2 days on that setup.

[TopJimmy]

Was the tuner USA based or overseas?

[Enzobaa]

I bet you it was Paul f80???

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2

Pretty sure both Cary and Paul Johnson are responsible for blowing several motors. Those are the two big names so I assume you had one or the other.

It seems there arnt many failures until people add meth or More injectors.

Way harder to control 2 fuel sources.

That sucks though man...

[MisterF80M3]

What kind of mods?

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by StockM4

I have yet to find a JordanTuned car that was blown as fast as mine was or just blown in general lol. Mine didn't even last 2 days on that setup.

That totally sucks man… all of the blown motors I've seen have had supplemental fueling work done either on meth or port injection.

What controller were you running for PI? These setups simply aren't safe for prime time until BM3 releases their module to control additional fueling setups via the DME.

With that said, my Jordan tune feels better than factory in terms of smoothness. I didn't go for max effort e85. Things just don't go well when you tune for max effort.

[dodospor]

whar was your whp ?

[StockM4]

Since everyone is curious and has been non stop messaging me regarding this, I decided to just simply say it, F80Paul blew my motor.
Thankfully i was datalogging when i blew my motor so i have the log of when the car blew.
I have shown this log to multiple tuners and people i trust and all say the reasoning to why i blew is simply bad tuning.
I was Upgraded Turbos Full E85 + pi , so i knew i was gonna be pushing near limits of the stock motor but i have seen people with that same setup run for years and not blow so fast like mine on just the 1st revision.
I been told that F80PAUL has his associates tune some cars because he is simply too busy which i think is simply just wrong and the reasoning to why maybe shit like this happens and its not right, i called out paul on it and he responded with "No tune adjustments happen without my approval and i look at every log"basically admitting his associates do tune which is just retarded.
Since blowing the motor i have found multiple people who have recently also blown on Paul's tune, like @F80Justin on instagram for example.
I simply wanted paul to admit to his mistakes and refund me the money for the tuning at the VERY least. Instead now he simply wont respond to any of my messages.

[Redacre]

Yikes! Sorry this happened to you, sounds like a nightmare

[TopJimmy]

Very sorry to hear that…

This is why I'm not doing PI or Meth as added fueling…added risk that can't be monitored well by the DME for fail-safe action.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by StockM4

Since blowing the motor i have found multiple people who have recently also blown on Paul's tune, like @F80Justin on instagram for example.

You're probably blown engine #18 or #20 with Paul. I stopped counting early last year.

Paul is not a bad tuner, but customers with blown engines have not been very specific with him, nor do they know how to read logs on an elementary level. For example, if they're saying the STFT delta is high between Banks 1 and 2, you may want to dial things down a bit until you can get that situation cleared. Often times, the DI injectors get stuck from running at high Duty Cycle over an extended time -- this is probably the most common cause of failure aside from running too much boost.

People often let tuners dictate what is too much for their cars when the tuners don't know themselves. Just because a formula worked for one car, doesn't mean it's going to work the same way for another car.

Bottom line, people need to understand their own car's limitations. Learn how to read logs, and know what's in the danger zone and what's safe. Cut your maintenance intervals by more than half if you need to; that's what FCPEuro is for. And last, stop asking your tuner for a full send calibration unless you can afford to drop a rebuilt engine for every time a failure happens.

[StockM4]

Originally Posted by FriedPiston

You're probably blown engine #18 or #20 with Paul. I stopped counting early last year.

Paul is not a bad tuner, but customers with blown engines have not been very specific with him, nor do they know how to read logs on an elementary level. For example, if they're saying the STFT delta is high between Banks 1 and 2, you may want to dial things down a bit until you can get that situation cleared. Often times, the DI injectors get stuck from running at high Duty Cycle over an extended time -- this is probably the most common cause of failure aside from running too much boost.

People often let tuners dictate what is too much for their cars when the tuners don't know themselves. Just because a formula worked for one car, doesn't mean it's going to work the same way for another car.

Bottom line, people need to understand their own car's limitations. Learn how to read logs, and know what's in the danger zone and what's safe. Cut your maintenance intervals by more than half if you need to; that's what FCPEuro is for. And last, stop asking your tuner for a full send calibration unless you can afford to drop a rebuilt engine for every time a failure happens.

Isn't that the purpose of having a tuner to look at your logs and be able to see if something is wrong before even providing a revision..? Lol i never asked for a full send or anything I literally was on my 1st revision and he already had me at 31 almost 32 psi… like what? How did base map start at 26 and 1st revision climbs up 5psi? Like you said this is one of many paul blown motors you seen.. wonder why they are all paul tuned.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by StockM4

Isn't that the purpose of having a tuner to look at your logs and be able to see if something is wrong before even providing a revision..? Lol i never asked for a full send or anything I literally was on my 1st revision and he already had me at 31 almost 32 psi… like what? How did base map start at 26 and 1st revision climbs up 5psi? Like you said this is one of many paul blown motors you seen.. wonder why they are all paul tuned.

That's most people's assumption that the tuner will oversee everything with 110% effort and attention 100% of the time. That's a very fair expectation for the customer, especially for neophytes, but Paul is not that guy unless you're very specific with him.

28 psi on stock internals is high IMO, so 30 psi is pretty much asking for trouble. At some point, the customer needs to say STOP for their very own interest. Paul's base E85 maps used to start at 17 degrees ignition advance, which I've heard from other recently blown S55s that this have been lowered to 15.5 degrees.

If people want their hands held throughout the tuning process, they need to start looking at other (more expensive) tuners, namely Ian@BendCalibration. I've seen him guide customers through what is safe based on his professional experience, and he will warn you when what you're asking for is too risky.

My advice to anyone reading: emphasize safety with your tuner, and have them explain the safety thresholds they have in place with their tune.

Otherwise, expect to pay to play if you don't exercise due diligence.

[TopJimmy]

What was your entire setup? Paul starting at 32PSI sounds insane unless you had a big build. His 600HP tune on my first F80 (stock turbos/fueling, FBOs) started at stock boost and worked up from there over many revs.