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      05-26-2015, 07:08 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lojs View Post
Did the brake fluid yesterday following your DIY. Thanks a lot!Can I store it in the pressure tank and reuse it later or does the fluid lose its quality once opened and poured out of the original bottle?
happy to help! did you remove the filter? did you just forcefully pry it out or did you use a certain technique?

as far as using the fluid later.... great question but unfortunately i don't know the answer. i know that usually once opened you shouldn't keep it on the shelf indefinitely because (i believe) it can imbibe water from the air and corrupt the fluid. if it's well sealed it may be okay though... but don't take my word for it. there are instruments to measure the water content in the fluid. the stuff (except the highest end stuff) isn't THAT much, so i usually toss the remainder and start with fresh stuff next time. if you plan on burning through a set of pads in a few weekends (causing the fluid to lower dramatically) you could probably close it off and use it top up the fluid at that time. that's just me trying to use logic and no real data, though. sorry i don't have a better answer!
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      05-26-2015, 07:32 PM   #24
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Yeah, I removed the filter. It comes out pretty easily. I just slid in a very tiny screwdriver on the side and then just popped it out, working with the screwdriver around the filter a little. No force applied really.
In the end I just put it back.
What I had trouble with is reading the level of the fluid through the reservoir wall. I tried lighting it with the phone flash from various sides with little success. I ended up filling until the lower end of the filter, which was the level that I started with.
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      05-26-2015, 08:48 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Lojs View Post
I ended up filling until the lower end of the filter, which was the level that I started with.
good call. i had that flashlight sitting on top which made it easier but it's still is tricky to see. glad you had success!
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      05-28-2015, 03:02 PM   #26
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Noob here, If I track my car about 3x a year should I be doing this? does the Service department bleed the brakes at any time?
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      05-31-2015, 11:13 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
Noob here, If I track my car about 3x a year should I be doing this? does the Service department bleed the brakes at any time?
there's not really an easy or single right answer for questions like that. many people will say to keep the car as stock as possible your first track event or couple to get a feel for the car in its stock configuration. however, most HPDE tech inspection sheets require the fluid to be 6months old or newer so yes, you'll need to do that much. i've heard some guys just use stock brake fluid just fine but a vast majority will put in a higher performance brake fluid (such as a DOT4 fluid by ATE or Castrol).

you can try the stock pads and see how they do but i would expect some fade if you're pushing it much, running longer sessions, running MDM traction control (it applies brakes to help you, i believe), or if your braking techniques need work (longer braking zones usually keep the pads hotter, if you brake much harder but over a shorter period of time they shouldn't fade as fast from my experiences). you can always shorten your sessions a little by pitting in early or just practice brake maintenance to stay out there longer (e.g.: don't go as fast on the straight sections of the track so you don't need to brake as hard for the next turn and give them a chance to cool off a bit).

good luck with your decision, i hope this helps!
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      06-01-2015, 07:29 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
anyone know torque specs for wheels & bleed nipples?
The wheels are 102.5 lb/ft (corresponding w/the 14x1.25 bolts) - confirmed by BMW. Still surprises me this information is not in the owner's manual.

Not sure they publish a torque spec for the bleeder screws. I'm sure it's in inch/pounds (or the metric equivalent). I always tighten them to snug, given they're usually a soft materiel and easy to potentially damage.

Re: Self-bleeding on these cars. I was having trouble w/my last car (E90 M3) after boiling fluid at the track. I couldn't get the pedal feel back w/my Motive power bleeder. I took it back to the dealership and discovered that the ABS servo can only be cycled via ECU plug-in to get all the fluid flushed. Also, they use a system that pulls a vacuum on each caliper, which works quite effectively. Although, if you have them use your own fluid (Motul RBF 600), I think they do it the old fashioned way - but still cycle the ABS servo.

Nice write up!
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      06-01-2015, 07:30 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
Noob here, If I track my car about 3x a year should I be doing this? does the Service department bleed the brakes at any time?
I have been using the stock fluid on all my ///Ms since 2001 at the rate of 16~20 track days per year without any issues. I have the stock fluid flushed by the dealer once a year at the start of the track season. There is a good cost benefit in that you get 2 flushes for free as part of regular maintenance. Further, my dealer also has been accomodating by sometimes not charging for the in-between flushes.
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      06-01-2015, 11:12 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
Noob here, If I track my car about 3x a year should I be doing this? does the Service department bleed the brakes at any time?
there's not really an easy or single right answer for questions like that. many people will say to keep the car as stock as possible your first track event or couple to get a feel for the car in its stock configuration. however, most HPDE tech inspection sheets require the fluid to be 6months old or newer so yes, you'll need to do that much. i've heard some guys just use stock brake fluid just fine but a vast majority will put in a higher performance brake fluid (such as a DOT4 fluid by ATE or Castrol).

you can try the stock pads and see how they do but i would expect some fade if you're pushing it much, running longer sessions, running MDM traction control (it applies brakes to help you, i believe), or if your braking techniques need work (longer braking zones usually keep the pads hotter, if you brake much harder but over a shorter period of time they shouldn't fade as fast from my experiences). you can always shorten your sessions a little by pitting in early or just practice brake maintenance to stay out there longer (e.g.: don't go as fast on the straight sections of the track so you don't need to brake as hard for the next turn and give them a chance to cool off a bit).

good luck with your decision, i hope this helps!
Thanks for the advice, good to know. The steel brakes have been great so far, I have yet to experience brake fade after 2 long track days. Even some of the much more capable drivers I was on the track with pushed their F8X to its limits without getting brake fade. Only thing is that they tend to squeal but I was told that that happens because they are cold
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      06-01-2015, 11:13 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
Noob here, If I track my car about 3x a year should I be doing this? does the Service department bleed the brakes at any time?
I have been using the stock fluid on all my ///Ms since 2001 at the rate of 16~20 track days per year without any issues. I have the stock fluid flushed by the dealer once a year at the start of the track season. There is a good cost benefit in that you get 2 flushes for free as part of regular maintenance. Further, my dealer also has been accomodating by sometimes not charging for the in-between flushes.
Awesome thanks for the advice, I actually just got my front brakes replaced a month ago during 10k mile service
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      06-02-2015, 07:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
Noob here, If I track my car about 3x a year should I be doing this? does the Service department bleed the brakes at any time?
I have been using the stock fluid on all my ///Ms since 2001 at the rate of 16~20 track days per year without any issues. I have the stock fluid flushed by the dealer once a year at the start of the track season. There is a good cost benefit in that you get 2 flushes for free as part of regular maintenance. Further, my dealer also has been accomodating by sometimes not charging for the in-between flushes.
I tell everyone about this now when discussing brake fluid. being fresh is the most important thing it seems.
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      06-08-2015, 02:03 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I have been using the stock fluid on all my ///Ms since 2001 at the rate of 16~20 track days per year without any issues. I have the stock fluid flushed by the dealer once a year at the start of the track season. There is a good cost benefit in that you get 2 flushes for free as part of regular maintenance. Further, my dealer also has been accomodating by sometimes not charging for the in-between flushes.
This is true, OEM fluids are fine. If you track a few times a year, you can get by with flushing it once. However, if you do experience fading on one given weekend then you'll need to flush after that track weekend as air is now in your system (boiling).

My dealership is very reasonable, they charge $105 for oil changes. For brake fluid, they charge $127. The recommended standard interval is once every 2-yr. A Motiv pressure bleeder is $50 and Ate Typ 200 is $15. The ROI and convenient factor is there. Fluid specs below:

Ate TYP 200 - Dry 536*F / Wet 392*F
BMW OEM - Dry: 446*F / Wet: 311*F

I splurged on the Motiv Black Label (pro grade) so I can help my track buddies w/o worrying wear and tear to the cap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
I tell everyone about this now when discussing brake fluid. being fresh is the most important thing it seems.
You are correct. Even the highest performing fluid will degrade as they absorb moisture. Moisture in the air will dilute its ability to hold a high boiling temp.
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      06-08-2015, 02:07 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0-100 ninja real quick View Post
Is this for track people wanting to change their brakes? Thought we have 4 years free maintenance.
I'm not doing all that.
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      06-08-2015, 02:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by 0-100 ninja real quick View Post
Is this for track people wanting to change their brakes? Thought we have 4 years free maintenance.
Yes. If you drive an M3/M4, why haven't you tracked your car? M vehicles are built for the track and you'll be surprise how capable they are in stock forms.

Stock brakes will do if you go out 1-2 weekends per year.
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      06-08-2015, 03:29 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol View Post
This is true, OEM fluids are fine. If you track a few times a year, you can get by with flushing it once. However, if you do experience fading on one given weekend then you'll need to flush after that track weekend as air is now in your system (boiling).
Usually brake fade is related to the pads overheating and not the fluid. Bad fluid usually translates into a soft and/or long pedal.

I have been tracking at the rate of 16~20 days per season starting since 2002 with my E46, a single flush per year at the beginning of the season has been proven sufficient for me. However, some tracks can be tougher on brakes, so if one does experience a soft/long brake pedal, more frequent flushes may be needed.
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      06-08-2015, 03:34 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0-100 ninja real quick View Post
Is this for track people wanting to change their brakes? Thought we have 4 years free maintenance.
Brakes are not covered under the standard maintenance program, you have to purchase the extended program (Service Inclusive Plus) to include some of the consumable items such as brakes.
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      06-08-2015, 03:39 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0-100 ninja real quick View Post
Is this for track people wanting to change their brakes? Thought we have 4 years free maintenance.
Brakes are not covered under the standard maintenance program, you have to purchase the extended program to include some of the consumable items such as brakes.
Actually, brakes are included unless the M is different. Just got brakes done under warranty on my 6GC.
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      06-08-2015, 03:45 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by JNoSol View Post
Actually, brakes are included unless the M is different. Just got brakes done under warranty on my 6GC.
Interesting. Could be a difference between Canada and US...

See screenshot below from the BMW.CA website:

EDIT: Just checked the US site. So yes, confirmed difference between BMW US and Canada. Sorry for the confusion.
Attached Images
  
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      06-08-2015, 04:10 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol View Post
Actually, brakes are included unless the M is different. Just got brakes done under warranty on my 6GC.
Interesting. Could be a difference between Canada and US...

See screenshot below from the BMW.CA website:

EDIT: Just checked the US site. So yes, confirmed difference between BMW US and Canada. Sorry for the confusion.
You're right. U.S. Includes brake pads into the standard warranty program and Canada doesn't. Unlimited pads and rotors for defect/normal wear. But if you track it, you get one set under warranty.
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      06-08-2015, 07:45 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol View Post
Actually, brakes are included unless the M is different. Just got brakes done under warranty on my 6GC.
Interesting. Could be a difference between Canada and US...

See screenshot below from the BMW.CA website:

EDIT: Just checked the US site. So yes, confirmed difference between BMW US and Canada. Sorry for the confusion.
You're right. U.S. Includes brake pads into the standard warranty program and Canada doesn't. Unlimited pads and rotors for defect/normal wear. But if you track it, you get one set under warranty.
honor system for tracking?
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      06-08-2015, 10:11 PM   #42
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Here is tip if have pressure bleeder and just want to bleed the brakes in couple of minutes before your next track day and not have the PITA messy bottle to clean up.....
Use the Pressure bleeder to pressurize the system without putting any fluid in the bottle and bleed the brakes. Then use a clamp to clamp off the hose when depressurizing the bottle and this will keep Fluid from traveling back into the Pressure bottle. Remember to add to fluid back in the reservoir.
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      06-08-2015, 11:48 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol View Post
Actually, brakes are included unless the M is different. Just got brakes done under warranty on my 6GC.
Interesting. Could be a difference between Canada and US...

See screenshot below from the BMW.CA website:

EDIT: Just checked the US site. So yes, confirmed difference between BMW US and Canada. Sorry for the confusion.
You're right. U.S. Includes brake pads into the standard warranty program and Canada doesn't. Unlimited pads and rotors for defect/normal wear. But if you track it, you get one set under warranty.
honor system for tracking?
They can tell if you tracked the car by looking at the brakes. These pads are designed to last 40-60k miles. If you bring it in at 12k with it completely worn pads then it's a good indication. So you pretty much get one set of brakes under wear (normal or track).

Defect examples are brakes not seated correctly, warped rotors, squealing, etc.
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      06-09-2015, 09:46 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol View Post
Actually, brakes are included unless the M is different. Just got brakes done under warranty on my 6GC.
Interesting. Could be a difference between Canada and US...

See screenshot below from the BMW.CA website:

EDIT: Just checked the US site. So yes, confirmed difference between BMW US and Canada. Sorry for the confusion.
You're right. U.S. Includes brake pads into the standard warranty program and Canada doesn't. Unlimited pads and rotors for defect/normal wear. But if you track it, you get one set under warranty.
honor system for tracking?
They can tell if you tracked the car by looking at the brakes. These pads are designed to last 40-60k miles. If you bring it in at 12k with it completely worn pads then it's a good indication. So you pretty much get one set of brakes under wear (normal or track).

Defect examples are brakes not seated correctly, warped rotors, squealing, etc.
gotcha .. figured the tracking thing was based on accelerated brake wear (oxymoron? ha)... not "proof" though. just wondering. I'm still hesitant to admit tracking to the dealership. good to know at least one free set is included.
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