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      06-12-2019, 03:25 PM   #1
M 4 FUN
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Lack of rear end grip.

Hi guys. Is there anyone else than me who feels that the rear end is "loose" on these cars? It doesn't require much until the traction control hits in. I have no confidence in the rear end and it feels like you have no real trust in the car when you drive it fast without traction Control or MDM. I had better rear end grip in my old 335i it feels like.. The car doesn't communicate well with me when it's on the limit of grip. As soon as you give it some throttle out of a corner traction control or MDM goes in instantly. just like the Michelin supersports are 15 years old or something.
I was thinking about changing my suspension to Bilsteins EDC B216 kit to see if that helps but i don't know. The car feels scittish at the rear as it is. Anyone else who feels the same? Any solutions to this "issue"?

Johnny

Last edited by M 4 FUN; 06-13-2019 at 05:05 AM..
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      06-12-2019, 05:43 PM   #2
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Are you rolling on the throttle or jabbing at it? Rolling on the throttle helps a lot as it decreases wheel spin a lot.

Also -- check your threads on the tires. Are they corded?
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      06-12-2019, 05:50 PM   #3
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Are you a ZCP car or early build? If so pay for the coding its a night and day difference with GTS rear diff. Seems like the ZCPs were tuned to be hooligan mode.

Also traction control kicks in very conservatively not necessarily when you're at the limit. Get that coded to something less aggressive as well and the car feels 1000x more capable. The car is seriously held back stock and feels just as you describe.
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      06-13-2019, 03:45 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2733 View Post
Are you a ZCP car or early build? If so pay for the coding its a night and day difference with GTS rear diff. Seems like the ZCPs were tuned to be hooligan mode.

Also traction control kicks in very conservatively not necessarily when you're at the limit. Get that coded to something less aggressive as well and the car feels 1000x more capable. The car is seriously held back stock and feels just as you describe.
The car is a Comp pack , 6-speed. Ok, so it does that much difference? maybe something to consider then. The feeling is that the supersport Michelins are really bad for roaduse when they aren't warmed up.
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      06-13-2019, 08:44 AM   #5
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The car is a Comp pack , 6-speed. Ok, so it does that much difference? maybe something to consider then. The feeling is that the supersport Michelins are really bad for roaduse when they aren't warmed up.
It made an absolutely huge difference, several writers have noted this too driving the CS/GTS/ZCP noting the ZCP just locks up and kicks out the rear unnecessarily (true). I also went to PS4S and the difference is astounding with the CS EDC, GTS Diff, GTS DSC (less intervention).

I also feel like the BMW star spec MPSS are a major let-down I have sets of MPSS on other vehicles I daily drive and the difference is astounding. The BMW spec ones seem to have almost no grip in comparison.
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      06-13-2019, 04:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by omega2733 View Post
It made an absolutely huge difference, several writers have noted this too driving the CS/GTS/ZCP noting the ZCP just locks up and kicks out the rear unnecessarily (true). I also went to PS4S and the difference is astounding with the CS EDC, GTS Diff, GTS DSC (less intervention).

I also feel like the BMW star spec MPSS are a major let-down I have sets of MPSS on other vehicles I daily drive and the difference is astounding. The BMW spec ones seem to have almost no grip in comparison.

Thanks, good to hear! I will definately look into flashing the TC and diff. Thanks for confirming what i also feel with the tires .
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      06-13-2019, 05:45 PM   #7
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Is gts dsc more or less intervention than euro mdm?
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      06-13-2019, 07:24 PM   #8
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What you are experiencing is BMW's poor chassis and shock tuning , which then requires a super conservative traction/stability & MDM systems.

I'll get a lot of hate for this but the rear answer is getting away from the F platform and moving do something like this...
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      06-14-2019, 06:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
What you are experiencing is BMW's poor chassis and shock tuning , which then requires a super conservative traction/stability & MDM systems.

I'll get a lot of hate for this but the rear answer is getting away from the F platform and moving do something like this...
No thanks. And they aren't faster around the track anyway after what i've seen so they can't be that much better than the M4. Too big and Heavy for my taste. Updated software in the diff and MDM together with new tires will probably do it.

Last edited by M 4 FUN; 06-14-2019 at 06:27 AM..
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      06-14-2019, 01:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
What you are experiencing is BMW's poor chassis and shock tuning , which then requires a super conservative traction/stability & MDM systems.

I'll get a lot of hate for this but the rear answer is getting away from the F platform and moving do something like this...
No thanks. And they aren't faster around the track anyway after what i've seen so they can't be that much better than the M4. Too big and Heavy for my taste. Updated software in the diff and MDM together with new tires will probably do it.
You might want to recheck your track time stats. The SS 1LE is just a tick behind the M4 GTS and GT350R, the standard M4 isn't even close.
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      06-14-2019, 01:24 PM   #11
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Yes, it's slightly faster on some tracks but it's still too big for me and i am not a Camaro guy. I'm not a fan of the looks either with the high body panels and low windows. I like my M4, i just have to do some diff and MDM flashing . I see you run Íhlins R/T suspension on your M3. Do you like it?
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      06-14-2019, 02:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M 4 FUN View Post
Yes, it's slightly faster on some tracks but it's still too big for me and i am not a Camaro guy. I'm not a fan of the looks either with the high body panels and low windows. I like my M4, i just have to do some diff and MDM flashing . I see you run Öhlins R/T suspension on your M3. Do you like it?
Fair enough.

The Ohlins had their pros and cons.

PROS: they settled the rear-end and took ALL of the nastiness/instability out under all conditions whether it was braking or cornering and hitting a bump mid-corner.

CONS: While the low speed and small bumps were smoother over stock because of the DSV technology , the bigger bumps were very jarring. Some bumps and dips on the freeways near me would cause me to lift out of my seat and set off the traction control system.

It also still doesn't fix the rear traction issues or the MDM that still is very intrusive.
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      06-14-2019, 02:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M 4 FUN View Post
Yes, it's slightly faster on some tracks but it's still too big for me and i am not a Camaro guy. I'm not a fan of the looks either with the high body panels and low windows. I like my M4, i just have to do some diff and MDM flashing . I see you run Öhlins R/T suspension on your M3. Do you like it?
BTW, I was not a Camaro guy before this either. I had many Z06 Corvettes before, but this is my first Camaro.

After having it almost a year now , it it one of the top 3 performance cars I have ever had. The 1st being my C5 Z06 , and the 2nd being my tuned Audi TTRS.

Regarding the weight, it drives much lighter than its weight suggests and feels lighter compared to my M3 when tossing it around the corners. The M3 felt quite a bit more top heavy over the SS 1LE, despite the M3 having the carbon fiber roof.
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      06-14-2019, 04:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
BTW, I was not a Camaro guy before this either. I had many Z06 Corvettes before, but this is my first Camaro.

After having it almost a year now , it it one of the top 3 performance cars I have ever had. The 1st being my C5 Z06 , and the 2nd being my tuned Audi TTRS.

Regarding the weight, it drives much lighter than its weight suggests and feels lighter compared to my M3 when tossing it around the corners. The M3 felt quite a bit more top heavy over the SS 1LE, despite the M3 having the carbon fiber roof.

Ok! Thanks for the Review of the Íhlins suspension.


Ok, the American made cars have really shaped up over the last years, that's for sure. Good performance for the Money, no doubt.
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      06-14-2019, 05:25 PM   #15
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What you are experiencing is BMW's poor chassis and shock tuning , which then requires a super conservative traction/stability & MDM systems.

I'll get a lot of hate for this but the rear answer is getting away from the F platform and moving do something like this...
But then I would have to grow a mullet, get me some Mr. T gold chains, put a hoop earring in and pick up a case of Budweiser.

Ummm. No Thanks :
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      06-14-2019, 06:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
What you are experiencing is BMW's poor chassis and shock tuning , which then requires a super conservative traction/stability & MDM systems.

I'll get a lot of hate for this but the rear answer is getting away from the F platform and moving do something like this...
But then I would have to grow a mullet, get me some Mr. T gold chains, put a hoop earring in and pick up a case of Budweiser.

Ummm. No Thanks :
Says the brand snob who has no clue of which he speaks.

Stereotypes are a rather ignorant and narrowed minded thinking process.

That's like saying because you drive a BMW, you are a preppy douche bag who drives like an asshole.

If you are basing decisions on stereotypes and not facts/reality then you are missing out on some gems. Tunnel vision thinking is never a good thing.
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      06-14-2019, 07:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
What you are experiencing is BMW's poor chassis and shock tuning , which then requires a super conservative traction/stability & MDM systems.

I'll get a lot of hate for this but the rear answer is getting away from the F platform and moving do something like this...
But then I would have to grow a mullet, get me some Mr. T gold chains, put a hoop earring in and pick up a case of Budweiser.

Ummm. No Thanks :
Says the brand snob who has no clue of which he speaks.

Stereotypes are a rather ignorant and narrowed minded thinking process.

That's like saying because you drive a BMW, you are a preppy douche bag who drives like an asshole.
Don't cry dude.

Your a hillbilly.

It's cool.

Embrace it.

I am a Preppy Douche that drives like an Asshole and I'm ok with it

It was a joke. Get a sense of humor.
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      06-14-2019, 07:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
What you are experiencing is BMW's poor chassis and shock tuning , which then requires a super conservative traction/stability & MDM systems.

I'll get a lot of hate for this but the rear answer is getting away from the F platform and moving do something like this...
But then I would have to grow a mullet, get me some Mr. T gold chains, put a hoop earring in and pick up a case of Budweiser.

Ummm. No Thanks :
Says the brand snob who has no clue of which he speaks.

Stereotypes are a rather ignorant and narrowed minded thinking process.

That's like saying because you drive a BMW, you are a preppy douche bag who drives like an asshole.
Don't cry dude.

Your a hillbilly.

It's cool.

Embrace it.

I am a Preppy Douche that drives like an Asshole and I'm ok with it

It was a joke. Get a sense of humor.
Lol. I didn't take it serious , just countering.
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      06-14-2019, 07:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
What you are experiencing is BMW's poor chassis and shock tuning , which then requires a super conservative traction/stability & MDM systems.

I'll get a lot of hate for this but the rear answer is getting away from the F platform and moving do something like this...
But then I would have to grow a mullet, get me some Mr. T gold chains, put a hoop earring in and pick up a case of Budweiser.

Ummm. No Thanks :
Says the brand snob who has no clue of which he speaks.

Stereotypes are a rather ignorant and narrowed minded thinking process.

That's like saying because you drive a BMW, you are a preppy douche bag who drives like an asshole.
Don't cry dude.

Your a hillbilly.

It's cool.

Embrace it.

I am a Preppy Douche that drives like an Asshole and I'm ok with it

It was a joke. Get a sense of humor.
Lol. I didn't take it serious , just countering.
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      06-15-2019, 08:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
What you are experiencing is BMW's poor chassis and shock tuning , which then requires a super conservative traction/stability & MDM systems.

I'll get a lot of hate for this but the rear answer is getting away from the F platform and moving do something like this...
Well said. The F8X rear suspension is far from sensational, even with ZCP dampers, CS coding, solid rear toe links, optimized alignment settings, different springs, Pilot Sport 4S tires, etc, etc. The new Camaro (when properly optioned) or an S550 GT350 are worlds better in this department than an F8X. I own an F82 so I am not a hater but I am not blinded by the Roundel magic - BMW needs to step up their game for the next generation M3/4.
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      07-12-2019, 12:49 PM   #21
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Traction issues

I know it doesn't fully address your questions but this is my suspension and what I think of mine. After I installed Coilovers, Camber plates, Toe Link, F/R Steel bushings, Rear suspension link kit, a proper ride height, F 275,/R 305 or 285 square tires and my car feels great. I have no complaints during hard acceleration, braking and wild turns. I suppose you have to spend some dough to make it perform the way you want it.
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      10-19-2019, 05:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobe92 View Post
I know it doesn't fully address your questions but this is my suspension and what I think of mine. After I installed Coilovers, Camber plates, Toe Link, F/R Steel bushings, Rear suspension link kit, a proper ride height, F 275,/R 305 or 285 square tires and my car feels great. I have no complaints during hard acceleration, braking and wild turns. I suppose you have to spend some dough to make it perform the way you want it.
Not to diverge from OP thread but what kind of tires you run 285 square?
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