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      09-20-2019, 07:21 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by pmurray633 View Post
I will keep mine through the duration of the lease, especially considering I have lowered it, spacers, tint, reflectors, downpipes, tune, and soon to be full e85 lol. It's a great daily and you can't go wrong.
Unless BMW finds out how you modified their car and asks for the car back. "lol"

It happen to that guy in UK.
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      10-12-2019, 11:37 AM   #24
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Why so many CS for sale?

Sup Bimmer bros??
After my 17 ZCP was stolen just over 6 weeks ago, whilst waiting for the insurance to pay out I toyed with the idea of going full in and picking up a CS as my next car..

I just want to ask the CS owners if they would fill us none CS owners in on why no one wants to buy them and secondly everyone wants to sell them???

I mean looking at reviews the car is being hailed as the shining light in the F80 line up yet since they've started to show up on the showroom lots despite being a limited run they are just not selling. I had my BMW SA tell him in the UK M3CS' with a sticker price of 90k are being sold for 55-60 as head office just wants them gone!

Also looking at the lease take over section of this forum I noticed no fewer than 9 M3CS leases on the first 2 pages alone?? So why is it the guys who actually have the car are so desperate to get rid of them?

Am I missing something here and about to make a mistake getting into one???
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      10-12-2019, 11:46 AM   #25
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My guess is the lack of armrest.
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      10-12-2019, 11:52 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by ZeCP View Post
Sup Bimmer bros??
After my 17 ZCP was stolen just over 6 weeks ago, whilst waiting for the insurance to pay out I toyed with the idea of going full in and picking up a CS as my next car..

I just want to ask the CS owners if they would fill us none CS owners in on why no one wants to buy them and secondly everyone wants to sell them???

I mean looking at reviews the car is being hailed as the shining light in the F80 line up yet since they've started to show up on the showroom lots despite being a limited run they are just not selling. I had my BMW SA tell him in the UK M3CS' with a sticker price of 90k are being sold for 55-60 as head office just wants them gone!

Also looking at the lease take over section of this forum I noticed no fewer than 9 M3CS leases on the first 2 pages alone?? So why is it the guys who actually have the car are so desperate to get rid of them?

Am I missing something here and about to make a mistake getting into one???
It's a nice car but for the price point it's not worth it and that's pretty apparent with the massive discounts they're pushing for them.

There are some quality of life items removed, I personally don't think a daily CS is worth it but to each his own.
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      10-12-2019, 12:15 PM   #27
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I'd love to run an F80 CS. My bet is it's an underrated/underappreciated car like other F8X.

I peek in on the market every once in a while. Not sure how things look in the UK, but just 2 M3 CS currently listed on Cars.com. 135 M4 CS. Apparently plenty of happy M3 CS owners.
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      10-12-2019, 01:06 PM   #28
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I'd be looking all day for one (M4) if it came in a stick, the prices are ridiculous. No stick, no car for me though.
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      10-12-2019, 01:50 PM   #29
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I got rid of mine more because of BMW NAs attitude about some things other than the car itself. I had the MP HAS installed by a BMW dealer approved by BMW to put it on. Then two or so months later BMW NA calls me out of the blue and says they need to take it off because it was possibly unsafe if fully lowered (which I was never going to do). After numerous back and forth trying to keep it with calls from BMW NA and help from my dealer they still made me remove it or else I'd have to buy the car out from my lease and sign something saying I'd have no warranty. It never got to the last part, but it was intimated to me in numerous ways via my BMW NA rep and via the regional rep through my dealer contacts. Never mind the parts and clearances are the same as the variants of M3/4s and people have been installing them in Canada with zero issues etc. My dealer service department of who are track enthusiasts themselves and a really great bunch of people were dumbfounded as well. BMW NA is basically saying their designed part for their own car is potentially unsafe for all variants. Truly bizarre back and forth in the end.

Also I was having brake fade issues within 10 laps on of track sessions with the iron brakes. I've never been interested in the CCBs for multiple reasons.

I asked for a trade assist into a M2C and they flat out said no. One line from BMW NA really pissed me off. Knowing the hit I'd take they sarcastically said "I was free to trade it in on a M2C if I liked." I took that eff you and dumped it for a truly mental 19 6MT ZL1 1LE. I won't even bother trying to compare the two as they radically different cars for different purposes. And I truly hate GM so go figure, but it is an amazing machine as many of these cars are form different manufactures. So with one line BMW essentially ended a very lucrative for them relationship with a long term fairly loyal customer. As many know here I've bought around ten BMWs over the last six years, half of them M cars or M car light. Also I've purchased many things from their M Performance catalog and had them installed by their dealers. I would think I was the type of customer they wanted to keep, but I guess not. I never expected them to kiss my ass nor agree to the trade assist, but in the end I was truly surprised how little they cared about my business and the relationship because of that. In the end after much pushing from my dealer for something they refunded me two lease payments. Of which I'm grateful for something in the end other than just a refund for parts and labor for the removal and return of the MP HAS.

So rant/whining over here is my take on having a manual M3 ZCP with MP HAS/other Dinan suspension parts installed compared to the stock M4 CS. The interior bits that were missing didn't bother me and I think the M3/4 CS are the best looking cars of all the variants. I also actually think the stereo was much better in the M4 CS than any other HK I've had in other M3/4s. I also truly liked the simplified HVAC system and thought it to worked much better than the dual systems. No CA does suck, but it is something one gets used to.

Here is my problems with the CS and BMWs decisions about the car. If you are trying to make a six figure lighter more track focused car they made some odd decisions. One why take out CA, dual climate, door pulls and the armrests but put in a leather dash and door tops (optional rear sunshade in a track focused coupe ) , especially since the door cards are recycled something or other? If you are going to make a lighter car, make a lighter car and don't go half assed about it. My M4 CS came in over 3600 pounds still and it was a base/lightest version. It really isn't/wasn't much lighter than my MT ZCP M3. Also going back to the six figure price tag a version of the MP HAS that is "approved" for the CS should be standard. So you can corner balance and obviously lower it. Stock the M4 CS looks to have more wheel gap than my stock M3 ZCP did. Also, I don't think the suspension is that great unless you have the MP HAS or something similar installed on the CS IMO. BMW even could of had camber plates standard since of course this is a six figure track focused car. And the decision to only put PSS on US cars is really a bad one as that is most of the traction advantage over the ZCP cars (Cup2s). Also as has been talked about to death, I and others don't understand why BMW refuses to allow a MT transmission in their CS/GTS versions.

I did think it felt more special than the ZCP cars overall and the extra power was noticeable and very nice IMO. Also MDM was much better calibrated and usable in the CS than civic or ZCP models also IMO. The CS also rode better either stock or with MP HAS again in my opinion.

So in the end if you want a more special feeling/faster car from the factory (no modding) and don't care about MT, I think you will really enjoy this car. It really is an awesome/fun DD. This is of course at a serious discount as I've always maintained this is in no way a six figure car. And this of course has been proven by what the market has said.

If you want a more serious track car (of which it is advertised to be), I don't think you will like it stock and will need a decent amount of mods to get it there. I was surprised by the iron brake fade problem and I really don't like CCBs as most serious track people don't (of which I'm not, just 2-3 events a year, hoping I can change that in the future though) due to cost etc (upfront and replacement parts).

Now I need to go work on my mullet, have a good day everyone and flame away. This is just one long tome BMW owners opinions and I'm sure many have a different one. Have a good weekend everyone.

Edit: In the beginning BMW offered me a MPE with CS tips for compensation or a one day track school, which wasn't bad at all. But, I told them I had no use for either as I already have two free M Schools lined up and an exhaust set up that I liked much better. So I would just end up selling the MPE/tips, which can be a pain the ass and I didn't want to deal with. They wanted to stick to that youldn't entertain anything else at all until my dealer pushed them for a couple of lease payments instead.

Last edited by minn19; 10-12-2019 at 02:07 PM..
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      10-12-2019, 02:02 PM   #30
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If you track or want performance, the CS is a monster. It's also incredibly gorgeous but, in my opinion, only if you get the CS the way it was meant to be (M4 not M3). The rear OLEDs, the door cards, the seats, etc... Very special car. I don't want to talk down the M3cs at all because it's amazing too but the M3cs was one of those "Well, we did it to the M4 so we kind of have to do it to the M3 as best as we can." Since there's no such thing as an M3 GTS, the M3CS isn't quite the same. If you just want a daily fast driver then I'd tell you to avoid the F8x in general and just go with an M5. Is the CS worth it at sticker price? No. Is it worth it for the price it's actually being sold at? You'd have to be insane to not take it.



I was one of the few street driven cars that broke 150 mph in the back straight of Watkins Glen (Proof above at 30 seconds). None of my buddies GT350s, 1LEs, C7s, etc... did. It's a monstrous car and I'm not even a pro. The only mods done to my car is camber plates/suspension -- still on stock power.

EDIT: minn19 is right about the brakes, they're garbage. There is no good F8x when it comes to brakes. BMW figured it was a good idea to neglect brake cooling completely.

Last edited by NYG; 10-12-2019 at 02:13 PM..
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      10-12-2019, 02:09 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
If you track or want performance, the CS is a monster. It's also incredibly gorgeous but, in my opinion, only if you get the CS the way it was meant to be (M4 not M3). The rear OLEDs, the door cards, the seats, etc... Very special car. I don't want to talk down the M3cs at all because it's amazing too but the M3cs was one of those "Well, we did it to the M4 so we kind of have to do it to the M3 as best as we can." Since there's no such thing as an M3 GTS, the M3CS isn't quite the same. If you just want a daily fast driver then I'd tell you to avoid the F8x in general and just go with an M5. Is the CS worth it at sticker price? No. Is it worth it for the price it's actually being sold at? You'd have to be insane to not take it.



I was one of the few street driven cars that broke 150 mph in the back straight of Watkins Glen (Proof above at 30 seconds). None of my buddies GT350s, 1LEs, C7s, etc... did. It's a monstrous car and I'm not even a pro. The only mods done to my car is camber plates/suspension -- still on stock power.
This is down to the driver than because those cars (a couple of them easily) are capable of doing it.

Nice vid/driving by the way!
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      10-12-2019, 02:19 PM   #32
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I love mine! No complaints here!
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      10-12-2019, 03:00 PM   #33
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I'll be in the minority I guess and say the M3CS > M4CS. I don't have cardboard for door panels, have a nice sound system and its practical without sacrificing too much comfort/noise. I get that its a "track orientated car" but for six figures... yeah no. Im gonna have leather door panels and decent insulation and sound.

I also wont be out $4000 when an OLED panel goes out on a tail light.

Love it.

Edit: As to why there are so many lease xfers? (notice there are non that are owned out-right) easy. BMW started offering stupid discounts on them in Feb-May of 2019 to move them. People scooped them up for 700-800/m payments. Many weren't even M enthusiasts and just got it for "the hell of it". Now they want something else. Some even claimed to have made money on the lease, but I doubt it as many of those low 700 payments took either MSD's or some type of down payment.

Last edited by nickl630; 10-12-2019 at 03:08 PM.. Reason: updated
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      10-12-2019, 04:03 PM   #34
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Just over a year into mine, and no intentions of selling it. Infact, I can see it being a long term keeper. This will be a highly desired model in 10-15 years time. Like all the previous greats that weren’t huge sellers at the time.
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      10-12-2019, 04:11 PM   #35
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I'll be in the minority I guess and say the M3CS > M4CS. I don't have cardboard for door panels, have a nice sound system and its practical without sacrificing too much comfort/noise. I get that its a "track orientated car" but for six figures... yeah no. Im gonna have leather door panels and decent insulation and sound.

I also wont be out $4000 when an OLED panel goes out on a tail light.

Love it.

Edit: As to why there are so many lease xfers? (notice there are non that are owned out-right) easy. BMW started offering stupid discounts on them in Feb-May of 2019 to move them. People scooped them up for 700-800/m payments. Many weren't even M enthusiasts and just got it for "the hell of it". Now they want something else. Some even claimed to have made money on the lease, but I doubt it as many of those low 700 payments took either MSD's or some type of down payment.
There's speakers behind the doorcards fyi.
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      10-12-2019, 04:32 PM   #36
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I don't know why people are getting rid of theirs but I'm happy with mines and the M3CS is the best looking F80 model
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      10-12-2019, 05:02 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I got rid of mine more because of BMW NAs attitude about some things other than the car itself. I had the MP HAS installed by a BMW dealer approved by BMW to put it on. Then two or so months later BMW NA calls me out of the blue and says they need to take it off because it was possibly unsafe if fully lowered (which I was never going to do). After numerous back and forth trying to keep it with calls from BMW NA and help from my dealer they still made me remove it or else I'd have to buy the car out from my lease and sign something saying I'd have no warranty. It never got to the last part, but it was intimated to me in numerous ways via my BMW NA rep and via the regional rep through my dealer contacts. Never mind the parts and clearances are the same as the variants of M3/4s and people have been installing them in Canada with zero issues etc. My dealer service department of who are track enthusiasts themselves and a really great bunch of people were dumbfounded as well. BMW NA is basically saying their designed part for their own car is potentially unsafe for all variants. Truly bizarre back and forth in the end.

Also I was having brake fade issues within 10 laps on of track sessions with the iron brakes. I've never been interested in the CCBs for multiple reasons.

I asked for a trade assist into a M2C and they flat out said no. One line from BMW NA really pissed me off. Knowing the hit I'd take they sarcastically said "I was free to trade it in on a M2C if I liked." I took that eff you and dumped it for a truly mental 19 6MT ZL1 1LE. I won't even bother trying to compare the two as they radically different cars for different purposes. And I truly hate GM so go figure, but it is an amazing machine as many of these cars are form different manufactures. So with one line BMW essentially ended a very lucrative for them relationship with a long term fairly loyal customer. As many know here I've bought around ten BMWs over the last six years, half of them M cars or M car light. Also I've purchased many things from their M Performance catalog and had them installed by their dealers. I would think I was the type of customer they wanted to keep, but I guess not. I never expected them to kiss my ass nor agree to the trade assist, but in the end I was truly surprised how little they cared about my business and the relationship because of that. In the end after much pushing from my dealer for something they refunded me two lease payments. Of which I'm grateful for something in the end other than just a refund for parts and labor for the removal and return of the MP HAS.

So rant/whining over here is my take on having a manual M3 ZCP with MP HAS/other Dinan suspension parts installed compared to the stock M4 CS. The interior bits that were missing didn't bother me and I think the M3/4 CS are the best looking cars of all the variants. I also actually think the stereo was much better in the M4 CS than any other HK I've had in other M3/4s. I also truly liked the simplified HVAC system and thought it to worked much better than the dual systems. No CA does suck, but it is something one gets used to.

Here is my problems with the CS and BMWs decisions about the car. If you are trying to make a six figure lighter more track focused car they made some odd decisions. One why take out CA, dual climate, door pulls and the armrests but put in a leather dash and door tops (optional rear sunshade in a track focused coupe ) , especially since the door cards are recycled something or other? If you are going to make a lighter car, make a lighter car and don't go half assed about it. My M4 CS came in over 3600 pounds still and it was a base/lightest version. It really isn't/wasn't much lighter than my MT ZCP M3. Also going back to the six figure price tag a version of the MP HAS that is "approved" for the CS should be standard. So you can corner balance and obviously lower it. Stock the M4 CS looks to have more wheel gap than my stock M3 ZCP did. Also, I don't think the suspension is that great unless you have the MP HAS or something similar installed on the CS IMO. BMW even could of had camber plates standard since of course this is a six figure track focused car. And the decision to only put PSS on US cars is really a bad one as that is most of the traction advantage over the ZCP cars (Cup2s). Also as has been talked about to death, I and others don't understand why BMW refuses to allow a MT transmission in their CS/GTS versions.

I did think it felt more special than the ZCP cars overall and the extra power was noticeable and very nice IMO. Also MDM was much better calibrated and usable in the CS than civic or ZCP models also IMO. The CS also rode better either stock or with MP HAS again in my opinion.

So in the end if you want a more special feeling/faster car from the factory (no modding) and don't care about MT, I think you will really enjoy this car. It really is an awesome/fun DD. This is of course at a serious discount as I've always maintained this is in no way a six figure car. And this of course has been proven by what the market has said.

If you want a more serious track car (of which it is advertised to be), I don't think you will like it stock and will need a decent amount of mods to get it there. I was surprised by the iron brake fade problem and I really don't like CCBs as most serious track people don't (of which I'm not, just 2-3 events a year, hoping I can change that in the future though) due to cost etc (upfront and replacement parts).

Now I need to go work on my mullet, have a good day everyone and flame away. This is just one long tome BMW owners opinions and I'm sure many have a different one. Have a good weekend everyone.

Edit: In the beginning BMW offered me a MPE with CS tips for compensation or a one day track school, which wasn't bad at all. But, I told them I had no use for either as I already have two free M Schools lined up and an exhaust set up that I liked much better. So I would just end up selling the MPE/tips, which can be a pain the ass and I didn't want to deal with. They wanted to stick to that youldn't entertain anything else at all until my dealer pushed them for a couple of lease payments instead.
Damn Minn. Sorry to hear about all that. Sucks. Very surprised BMW didn't try to keep you as a customer. Things are all sorts of wacked out at BMW. Just have a gander at the G8x renderings. Awful.
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      10-12-2019, 05:18 PM   #38
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Damn Minn. Sorry to hear about all that. Sucks. Very surprised BMW didn't try to keep you as a customer. Things are all sorts of wacked out at BMW. Just have a gander at the G8x renderings. Awful.
I’ve seen them and the other plans for the G that concern me more, which is why I went to Mulletville for one last shot at a truly involving car I really like and doesn’t fall apart like my GT350 did. I’m under no illusions though that GM will help out if things go to shit.

I will give them credit though that they thought a lot of things out really well for the driver of these cars. One thing with their MTs is they left the paddles in the car to turn on and off rev match whenever you want in any driving or TC(MDM) mode. What a crazy idea to give the driver of these cars choices like this right?

Like I said I didn’t expect them to kiss my ass etc, but I was surprised how little they really cared about customers like me. With declining sales car companies are going to begging for customers like us back that switch out cars as often as I do. I feel bad for my local BMW dealers because they lost a great customer and it had nothing to do with them. We have two main dealers in town and I buy from one and service at another. I was kind of surprised that both said they didn’t blame me one bit and they really like what GM has done with their sports cars.
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      10-12-2019, 05:34 PM   #39
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EDIT: minn19 is right about the brakes, they're garbage. There is no good F8x when it comes to brakes. BMW figured it was a good idea to neglect brake cooling completely.
I’ve never liked the soft pedal feel on the iron brakes with any of my M3/4s. But, I’ve never had the pedal go over halfway to the floor (I think) like I did at the and of 100 mph straight in any previous version of M3/4 I had. It was the biggest thing I missed from GT350 and I have it back with the 1LE.

That’s another strange BMW decision I didn’t get. Why give the M2C a slightly lighter car bigger brakes (6/4 pots) than your heavier supposedly more track focused CS models.

Edit: Had they not taken away my MP HAS, I was going to add a front set of AP racing brakes to my M4 CS. But since they did I obviously took that money and went elsewhere.
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      10-12-2019, 06:44 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Iíve never liked the soft pedal feel on the iron brakes with any of my M3/4s. But, Iíve never had the pedal go over halfway to the floor (I think) like I did at the and of 100 mph straight in any previous version of M3/4 I had. It was the biggest thing I missed from GT350 and I have it back with the 1LE.

Thatís another strange BMW decision I didnít get. Why give the M2C a slightly lighter car bigger brakes (6/4 pots) than your heavier supposedly more track focused CS models.

Edit: Had they not taken away my MP HAS, I was going to add a front set of AP racing brakes to my M4 CS. But since they did I obviously took that money and went elsewhere.
100% agree. Making CCB's standard on the CS would have helped sales, and agree with your thoughts on things like removing CA and Dual AC but making power sunshades standard? Just odd. I still enjoy/love the car though.
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      10-12-2019, 07:26 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Damn Minn. Sorry to hear about all that. Sucks. Very surprised BMW didn't try to keep you as a customer. Things are all sorts of wacked out at BMW. Just have a gander at the G8x renderings. Awful.
I've seen them and the other plans for the G that concern me more, which is why I went to Mulletville for one last shot at a truly involving car I really like and doesn't fall apart like my GT350 did. I'm under no illusions though that GM will help out if things go to shit.

I will give them credit though that they thought a lot of things out really well for the driver of these cars. One thing with their MTs is they left the paddles in the car to turn on and off rev match whenever you want in any driving or TC(MDM) mode. What a crazy idea to give the driver of these cars choices like this right?

Like I said I didn't expect them to kiss my ass etc, but I was surprised how little they really cared about customers like me. With declining sales car companies are going to begging for customers like us back that switch out cars as often as I do. I feel bad for my local BMW dealers because they lost a great customer and it had nothing to do with them. We have two main dealers in town and I buy from one and service at another. I was kind of surprised that both said they didn't blame me one bit and they really like what GM has done with their sports cars.
Mulletville. Haha

Agreed. I don't think BMW really cares about customers like us any longer. They are to busy trying to get every soccer mom and granny to leave Lexus. Sad. The new G8xs are gonna be AWD, heavy, 8ZF with a terrible front end. There is NO way I'm spending good cashola on that.

Are you considering the C8 when that finally arrives?

I've never been into Vette's but the C8 is going to be tempting.
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      10-12-2019, 07:35 PM   #42
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Mulletville. Haha

Agreed. I don't think BMW really cares about customers like us any longer. They are to busy trying to get every soccer mom and granny to leave Lexus. Sad. The new G8xs are gonna be AWD, heavy, 8ZF with a terrible front end. There is NO way I'm spending good cashola on that.

Are you considering the C8 when that finally arrives?

I've never been into Vette's but the C8 is going to be tempting.
I donít think so because I still need rear seats for my daughter. If I didnít, I wouldíve got a MT Grand Sport Vette a long time ago. The 1LE is as close as I can get to that IMO so Iíll give it a try. Iíd love a GTS 911, but I honestly canít get over that they are worth 130-140k and up.
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      10-13-2019, 06:53 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Mulletville. Haha

Agreed. I don't think BMW really cares about customers like us any longer. They are to busy trying to get every soccer mom and granny to leave Lexus. Sad. The new G8xs are gonna be AWD, heavy, 8ZF with a terrible front end. There is NO way I'm spending good cashola on that.

Are you considering the C8 when that finally arrives?

I've never been into Vette's but the C8 is going to be tempting.
I don't think so because I still need rear seats for my daughter. If I didn't, I would've got a MT Grand Sport Vette a long time ago. The 1LE is as close as I can get to that IMO so I'll give it a try. I'd love a GTS 911, but I honestly can't get over that they are worth 130-140k and up.
I hear you. That's why I love the current ///M cars. Performance, style, usable back seat for my little guy, a real trunk. I always wanted a 911 as well and even test drove a few over the years. It just doesn't work as a daily for my needs. No trunk space, laughable back seat for amputees and WAY overpriced.

I just grabbed another F82 at the PC a few months ago. ZCP this time. I really do like this Generation. Not sure where to go in a few years if BMW pushes me away. Maybe a REAL AMG. Just not sure I can get over the stigma that Merc is for Grandpas
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      10-14-2019, 12:00 AM   #44
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I hear you. That's why I love the current ///M cars. Performance, style, usable back seat for my little guy, a real trunk. I always wanted a 911 as well and even test drove a few over the years. It just doesn't work as a daily for my needs. No trunk space, laughable back seat for amputees and WAY overpriced.

I just grabbed another F82 at the PC a few months ago. ZCP this time. I really do like this Generation. Not sure where to go in a few years if BMW pushes me away. Maybe a REAL AMG. Just not sure I can get over the stigma that Merc is for Grandpas
Wait, Porsche is overpriced and AMG is for old people? Please wake up...lol
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