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      12-26-2013, 06:41 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
fortunately none of those things are true.

you should read in depth the technical data on the OP in this thread. the engine is NOT a warmed over n55. just because they are both turbocharged doesnt mean they are the same. the information explaining the VAST differences, and exaclty why the s55 is so different in superior is plastered all over this forum for anyone to read.

there is NO narrowing gap, in fact, the gap between non M and M is growing in terms of performance. the prior generation featured the closest acceleration gap between a non M and an M car (335 to M3). This gen the m3 is quoted by BMW as being a half second faster to 60, making much more average HP over the powerband, making much more torque. Not to mention 180 lbs lighter, stiffer materials, upmarket interior with fixed back seats, more standard features etc...

I couldnt disagree with your premise more, and the facts point to you being wrong
I really wasn't pointing out facts as much as sharing an opinion and accept that people will not agree. Agreed on the weight savings being a step in the right direction. The s55 is clearly evolutionary, from the N54. New turbos, closed deck casting, sturdier crank sharing (unless im mistaken), the same displacement specs - sounds warmed over to me. Certainly calling it an "all new M motor" would be a stretch. The "exhaust flap creating unique M sound" is on the list (everything gets marketed).

FWIW, the current F30 335i lost the same .5 sec as the 2015 M3 so the gap has likely remained the same. Yes, I'm making a broad generalization, and no I'm not going to go dig up and compare every stat - I'm sure someone will do it for me and prove me wrong. What you call "Upmarket interior" I call tacky (certainly the seats are).

While I'll reserve final judgement until I see it in person and drive one, the irony in all this is that the gap I'm talking about is not measured in absolute stats alone. The fact that I have to say that means this car was built for enthusiasts like you and not me. We are all after all enthusiasts - the beauty of opinions is that we can all have one.

Last edited by Uberm3; 12-26-2013 at 07:14 PM..
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      12-26-2013, 07:10 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uberm3 View Post
I really wasn't pointing out facts as much as sharing an opinion and accept that people will not agree. Agreed on the weight savings being a step in the right direction. The s55 is clearly evolutionary, from the N54. New turbos, closed deck casting, sturdier crank sharing (unless im mistaken), the same displacement specs - sounds warmed over to me. Certainly calling it an "all new M motor" would be a stretch. The "exhaust flap creating unique M sound" is on the list.

FWIW, the current F30 335i lost the same .5 sec as the 2015 M3 so the gap has likely remained the same. Yes, I'm making a broad generalization, and no I'm not going to go dig up and compare every stat - I'm sure someone will do it for me and prove me wrong. What you call "Upmarket interior" I call tacky (certainly the seats are).

While I'll reserve final judgement until I see it in person and drive one, the irony in all this is that the gap I'm talking about is not measured in absolute stats alone. The fact that I have to say that means this car was built for enthusiasts like you and not me. We are all after all enthusiasts - the beauty of opinions is that we can all have one.
actually, what you said that i disagree with is that this gen is closer to the 335 than the prior gen in performance. thats just simply not true, and that is not an opinion, it is a fact. your preference for one gen of m3 over the other is an opinion, and to that, each their own.

the e90 and f30 335 have basically identical performance numbers. the f80 m3 is over .5 seconds faster than the e9x to 60, and the difference is even greater in in-gear acceleration numbers due to the fatter powerband. the car is also lighter and has more advanced handling tech, including a rear subframe that is directly attached to the car.

so, if the 335 performance didnt change, but the new m3 is a lot quicker.....how is the gap smaller now than it used to be? that is what does not compute for me.

also, the "exhaust flap" is a valved exhaust system, seen in many performance cars such as a z06 corvette. its also a common mod for people to do to the m3. search "innotech" exhaust to see examples of this.

i love my e92, but the f80 will be faster and the gap between it and the 335 and the prior gen m3 will be large. that is not up for debate.

as far as the engine goes, your definition of warmed over and mine are not the same. other than being a 3L turbo, nothing else is similar between the n55 and s55.

as far as the seats, to each their own. integrated one piece headrest sport seats are seen in actual sports cars, see the 911 for example. i for one am glad we finally have them available. the glowing M in the seats? yea its lame but who cares? thats far down the list of things to complain about IMO

i track and DD my car, so having more efficiency, more power under the curve, more tech, lighter weight, much more performance and better brakes is nothing but a good thing.
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      12-26-2013, 07:43 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
actually, what you said that i disagree with is that this gen is closer to the 335 than the prior gen in performance. thats just simply not true, and that is not an opinion, it is a fact. your preference for one gen of m3 over the other is an opinion, and to that, each their own.

the e90 and f30 335 have basically identical performance numbers. the f80 m3 is over .5 seconds faster than the e9x to 60, and the difference is even greater in in-gear acceleration numbers due to the fatter powerband. the car is also lighter and has more advanced handling tech, including a rear subframe that is directly attached to the car.

so, if the 335 performance didnt change, but the new m3 is a lot quicker.....how is the gap smaller now than it used to be? that is what does not compute for me.

also, the "exhaust flap" is a valved exhaust system, seen in many performance cars such as a z06 corvette. its also a common mod for people to do to the m3. search "innotech" exhaust to see examples of this.

i love my e92, but the f80 will be faster and the gap between it and the 335 and the prior gen m3 will be large. that is not up for debate.

as far as the engine goes, your definition of warmed over and mine are not the same. other than being a 3L turbo, nothing else is similar between the n55 and s55.

as far as the seats, to each their own. integrated one piece headrest sport seats are seen in actual sports cars, see the 911 for example. i for one am glad we finally have them available. the glowing M in the seats? yea its lame but who cares? thats far down the list of things to complain about IMO

i track and DD my car, so having more efficiency, more power under the curve, more tech, lighter weight, much more performance and better brakes is nothing but a good thing.
Ok I'll keep it short (as I can):
1 - Depending on who you believe, the F30 335 did get quicker than the E90 335i (4.7 vs. 4.9-5.2). F8X M3 is estimated be quicker by around .5 sec over the E9X M3. Real world will probably prove better - no one really knows yet. You're probably right, but to me the gap isn't measured in 10ths of seconds - its about more than that for me (my previous posts).
2 - I'm aware of integrated headrest in sports cars again I'm referring to the overall look of them. Simpler is better. The lights are tacky (so is the perforation IMO). I'm paying 70-80k. I care.
3 - exhaust flap - this is regulation turned to marketing. It might improve drivability, meet noise regs, emissions/etc., perhaps help the turbo spool quicker. Its not there for max top end performance (nor is it closed at the top - don't see it on any race car after all. I don't look to the aftermarket for direction there - plenty of "snake oil" to be had in general.
4. The motor - agreed nothing else is similar, except the basic design, dimensions, etc. Our definitions of warmed over are different.

Please re-read what I've said (in my original post and my response). I did not say PERFORMANCE gap. You said that. Again, I'll reiterate to me its not entirely about numbers. If that was the we'd all likely be on a different forum. You don't have to convince me and I respect the fact that you don't agree. We can take this up over PMs if you really want to but I think I've clarified myself enough publicly.

Last edited by Uberm3; 12-26-2013 at 08:48 PM..
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      12-26-2013, 07:58 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uberm3 View Post
Ok I'll keep it short (as I can):
1 - Yes,the F30 335 did get quicker than the E90 by the same amount that the M3 is estimated to. Real world may prove different. No one really knows yet.

Where did you pull that from? The 335i's are more or less on the same ground in terms of raw performance in stock trim. If nothing else, the older E9X N54 powered 335i is really the true gem of the N motors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Uberm3 View Post
2 - yes, I'm aware of integrated headrest in sports cars again I'm referring to the overall look of them. Simpler is better. The lights are tacky. I'm paying 70-80k. I care.
Are the lights in the seats a deal breaker? If they are, why even consider the car?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Uberm3 View Post
3 - exhaust flap - this is regulation turned to marketing. It likely improves drivability, meets noise regs, emissions/etc., not max top end performance (don't see it on any race car after all). I don't look to the aftermarket for direction there - plenty of "snake oil" to be had in general.
What does the flap have to do with anything?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Uberm3 View Post
4. The motor - agreed nothing else is similar, except the basic design, dimensions, etc. Our definitions of warmed over are different.
I think your definition of warmed over is different than most.
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      12-30-2013, 07:56 AM   #247
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Any new info or pics out there? Would really like to see a price listed on the new M3/M4 and hopefully an expanded color palette. Maybe Jason can call his people and see if they have anything to offer up to all of the BMW fans here.
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      12-30-2013, 11:26 AM   #248
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Any new info or pics out there? Would really like to see a price listed on the new M3/M4 and hopefully an expanded color palette. Maybe Jason can call his people and see if they have anything to offer up to all of the BMW fans here.
I know waiting is hard but the NAIAS (Detroit Auto Show) is just around the corner and there might be some info leaks right before it starts January 13th.This board along with the internet will be filled with info the moment anything is released.
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      12-30-2013, 11:46 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3nari View Post
I know waiting is hard but the NAIAS (Detroit Auto Show) is just around the corner and there might be some info leaks right before it starts January 13th.This board along with the internet will be filled with info the moment anything is released.
Your right. I just have to hold out a little longer. Then the flood gates should open.
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      12-30-2013, 06:39 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by karbonphiber View Post
the car sounds like a shit taking a shit. I honestly think BMW did this on purpose, as well as leave out the CF splitter, rear diffuser, LED tails, etc... to sell separately as M performance parts. F'ing bastards.
Sounds like a troll to me...
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      12-31-2013, 03:51 AM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
as far as the engine goes, your definition of warmed over and mine are not the same. other than being a 3L turbo, nothing else is similar between the n55 and s55.


i track and DD my car, so having more efficiency, more power under the curve, more tech, lighter weight, much more performance and better brakes is nothing but a good thing.
i am not here trying to start another debate.

rather maybe trying to help to understand a different view point, on what that guy was talking about. even if you disagree with the view point.

its clear they are not the "same" engines.they have many different parts. we all can come to a agreement on that.

i am not sure about all the M cars in the past. but recent (E46-E92-E60) M generations the M engines were CLEARLY different machines (engine).

these new engines are made by the same people on the same plant as everything else(maybe not designed by them) . the engines are made with less "love" if you will. It would almost be a blaspheme for a M car to even share the same displacement or block/size of other non M cars. i have never seen a car company make much dramatic changes before in recent history.

Its CLEAR the E60 M5 was packing a different beast over the non m 5 series. it was CLEAR the E90 m was packing a different engine over a 335i or 328i. even though the E46 was a I6 engine, it was worlds better than any I6 engine BMW was making at that time.

sure you can give me all specs and different parts on the new M4 engine, and why it is different.

but the fact that this is even up for a debate sums it all up. there was ZERO debate on the E60 M5 vs 5 series. Zero debate on the E90 engine vs 335i engine. because the engines were much more dramatically different.

but with all that said. i honestly feel BMW can no long make engines like that because its way to costly. putting V10 engines in a dam sedan is quote Frankly insane. or a gas guzzling high revving M V8. the party if over in that sense.

i feel BMW is going in a direction where they should be going. making engines and cars that turn profit. and please most of the population. people usually just look at specs on paper any how.
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      12-31-2013, 07:51 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
i am not here trying to start another debate.

rather maybe trying to help to understand a different view point, on what that guy was talking about. even if you disagree with the view point.

its clear they are not the "same" engines.they have many different parts. we all can come to a agreement on that.

i am not sure about all the M cars in the past. but recent (E46-E92-E60) M generations the M engines were CLEARLY different machines (engine).

these new engines are made by the same people on the same plant as everything else(maybe not designed by them) . the engines are made with less "love" if you will. It would almost be a blaspheme for a M car to even share the same displacement or block/size of other non M cars. i have never seen a car company make much dramatic changes before in recent history.

Its CLEAR the E60 M5 was packing a different beast over the non m 5 series. it was CLEAR the E90 m was packing a different engine over a 335i or 328i. even though the E46 was a I6 engine, it was worlds better than any I6 engine BMW was making at that time.

sure you can give me all specs and different parts on the new M4 engine, and why it is different.

but the fact that this is even up for a debate sums it all up. there was ZERO debate on the E60 M5 vs 5 series. Zero debate on the E90 engine vs 335i engine. because the engines were much more dramatically different.

but with all that said. i honestly feel BMW can no long make engines like that because its way to costly. putting V10 engines in a dam sedan is quote Frankly insane. or a gas guzzling high revving M V8. the party if over in that sense.

i feel BMW is going in a direction where they should be going. making engines and cars that turn profit. and please most of the population. people usually just look at specs on paper any how.
first of all.....love? seriously? that's the kind of unsubstantiated romanticized opinion that you interject into these threads that is just not relevant. I don't even know what that means. in fact, if you want "love", you should buy an amg or a gtr since those engines are built by hand by a specific engine builder.

second of all, you should consider the difference between an opinion and a fact. I, nor anyone else, has no problem with anyone preferring a different type of engine than the s55. none whatsoever. its great that you love your s65.

what I said was that it is not a simply warmed over n55. the facts and specs that were provided are the specific proof that they are not the same. that is not up for debate.

whether you want to consider the s65 "more different" that's fine. clearly from your posts, prestige and status are very important to you and that's cool, I get it. personally, I see no loss in status whatsoever from having a new engine that happens to have the same displacement as the 335i motor considering the performance will be completely different and fantastic and it will feature a whole host of tech.

that's the point of the m3 in reality. its not about bespoke engines. its about the best all around DD / sports car hybrid on the market. its about the chassis, the styling, the performance, the interior, the tech, all of it. it was never only about the s54, the s65, etc....that's why every generation of m3 was great despite having different engines. (personally I enjoyed the character of my s54 over the s65, but jmo)

whether or not you LIKE the direction of the new m3, or the motor is an opinion. that the s55 is not a tuned n55 is a fact. that's the difference.
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      12-31-2013, 11:57 AM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
first of all.....love? seriously? that's the kind of unsubstantiated romanticized opinion that you interject into these threads that is just not relevant. I don't even know what that means. in fact, if you want "love", you should buy an amg or a gtr since those engines are built by hand by a specific engine builder.

second of all, you should consider the difference between an opinion and a fact. I, nor anyone else, has no problem with anyone preferring a different type of engine than the s55. none whatsoever. its great that you love your s65.

what I said was that it is not a simply warmed over n55. the facts and specs that were provided are the specific proof that they are not the same. that is not up for debate.

whether you want to consider the s65 "more different" that's fine. clearly from your posts, prestige and status are very important to you and that's cool, I get it. personally, I see no loss in status whatsoever from having a new engine that happens to have the same displacement as the 335i motor considering the performance will be completely different and fantastic and it will feature a whole host of tech.

that's the point of the m3 in reality. its not about bespoke engines. its about the best all around DD / sports car hybrid on the market. its about the chassis, the styling, the performance, the interior, the tech, all of it. it was never only about the s54, the s65, etc....that's why every generation of m3 was great despite having different engines. (personally I enjoyed the character of my s54 over the s65, but jmo)

whether or not you LIKE the direction of the new m3, or the motor is an opinion. that the s55 is not a tuned n55 is a fact. that's the difference.
ya like i said its not the same engine. to some people it FEELS to similar. that is 100% opinion based. sharing the same block for some people could be to much. does that mean they are wrong ? no.

you also gotta understand. styling, performance, interior, tech, AND bespoke engines. M use to make. so you got people here why like that kind of stuff. BMW M were making the same type of engines. then all of a sudden they dramatically changed there engine line up across the board. even non M cars did the same thing. its hard for me to believe they use to put a V10 in a road car.

i use to own a 2010 328i before getting my M3. i actually to this day miss that car. even loved the engine (believe it or not). The engine sounded good, and was smooth.

i have driven a few F30 328s. must say i was very disappointed. the car has totally loss all steering feel and 4 banger turbo is awful. even with a M sport package wasn't enough.

its almost like when BMW lost the "E" and went to F series they also left a bit of there soul behind.
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      12-31-2013, 12:15 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
ya like i said its not the same engine. to some people it FEELS to similar. that is 100% opinion based. sharing the same block for some people could be to much. does that mean they are wrong ? no.

you also gotta understand. styling, performance, interior, tech, AND bespoke engines. M use to make. so you got people here why like that kind of stuff. BMW M were making the same type of engines. then all of a sudden they dramatically changed there engine line up across the board. even non M cars did the same thing. its hard for me to believe they use to put a V10 in a road car.

i use to own a 2010 328i before getting my M3. i actually to this day miss that car. even loved the engine (believe it or not). The engine sounded good, and was smooth.

i have driven a few F30 328s. must say i was very disappointed. the car has totally loss all steering feel and 4 banger turbo is awful. even with a M sport package wasn't enough.

its almost like when BMW lost the "E" and went to F series they also left a bit of there soul behind.
agree about the new f cars, but I think the problem is different in why each one sucks. the bad tuning on the electric steering and a softer sprung car is mostly to blame on the f30, and the electric steering AND mainly the massive weight gain and use of the 7 series chassis is the problem on the f10.

that's also the problem on the m5, and that's why I think the m3 will not suffer the same problems as the f10 m5 did. the m5 is on a 7 derived series chassis / wheelbase and gained 400 lbs. the m3 is not on that chassis and will have lost 200 lbs. very different.

its not like the m3 is a limited edition ferarri or something, its a mass market road car that isn't particularly rare. the performance, feel and looks are what matters (like you said) and I think the m3 will deliver in spades.
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      12-31-2013, 04:07 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
ya like i said its not the same engine. to some people it FEELS to similar. that is 100% opinion based. sharing the same block for some people could be to much. does that mean they are wrong ? no.

you also gotta understand. styling, performance, interior, tech, AND bespoke engines. M use to make. so you got people here why like that kind of stuff. BMW M were making the same type of engines. then all of a sudden they dramatically changed there engine line up across the board. even non M cars did the same thing. its hard for me to believe they use to put a V10 in a road car.

i use to own a 2010 328i before getting my M3. i actually to this day miss that car. even loved the engine (believe it or not). The engine sounded good, and was smooth.

i have driven a few F30 328s. must say i was very disappointed. the car has totally loss all steering feel and 4 banger turbo is awful. even with a M sport package wasn't enough.

its almost like when BMW lost the "E" and went to F series they also left a bit of there soul behind.
Well, at least a few people understand my perspective. Why do I love my E30 M3? Its a focused tool (albeit slow by today's standards) - call me old school. The ///M3 started as a car no one wanted and became a mass market car. Why? The addressable market for people wanting fewer compromises is larger than people like me bringing more volume and with it profitability. The reduced cost of not having to develop a new engine from an entirely blank sheet, is significant. Let's not kid ourselves. This is a numbers game.

To re-emphasize again (and again and again and again)....I never said the motor was the same - someone put words in my mouth. I said it was warmed over. I stand by that statement. It is. I can understand why this pisses people off about to spend $70-80K on this car (like calling someones baby ugly). It shouldn't. It's MY opinion. When the time comes, you speak with your wallet and I'll speak with mine. Until then, we can be free to share our opinions.

Last edited by Uberm3; 12-31-2013 at 04:49 PM..
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      01-01-2014, 09:35 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Ezio View Post

Zero debate on the E90 engine vs 335i engine. because the engines were much more dramatically different.
Yes, there were never a "M3 vs 335" debate or a thread or any discussion.
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      01-01-2014, 09:46 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Chill72 View Post
Yes, there were never a "M3 vs 335" debate or a thread or any discussion.
I yesterday wanted to post the same thing. But now you did

As many of us know already, when the N54 .35i engine came out in 06 BMW had to detune it, easily making 400BHP back to letīs say 300, because otherwise it would destroy the oncoming E9x M3 in terms of straight line performance lol.

But we wonīt go there anymore.

HNY

Cheers
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      01-01-2014, 01:35 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
i am not here trying to start another debate.

rather maybe trying to help to understand a different view point, on what that guy was talking about. even if you disagree with the view point.

its clear they are not the "same" engines.they have many different parts. we all can come to a agreement on that.

i am not sure about all the M cars in the past. but recent (E46-E92-E60) M generations the M engines were CLEARLY different machines (engine).

these new engines are made by the same people on the same plant as everything else(maybe not designed by them) . the engines are made with less "love" if you will. It would almost be a blaspheme for a M car to even share the same displacement or block/size of other non M cars. i have never seen a car company make much dramatic changes before in recent history.

Its CLEAR the E60 M5 was packing a different beast over the non m 5 series. it was CLEAR the E90 m was packing a different engine over a 335i or 328i. even though the E46 was a I6 engine, it was worlds better than any I6 engine BMW was making at that time.

sure you can give me all specs and different parts on the new M4 engine, and why it is different.

but the fact that this is even up for a debate sums it all up. there was ZERO debate on the E60 M5 vs 5 series. Zero debate on the E90 engine vs 335i engine. because the engines were much more dramatically different.

but with all that said. i honestly feel BMW can no long make engines like that because its way to costly. putting V10 engines in a dam sedan is quote Frankly insane. or a gas guzzling high revving M V8. the party if over in that sense.

i feel BMW is going in a direction where they should be going. making engines and cars that turn profit. and please most of the population. people usually just look at specs on paper any how.
Some minor fact checking would help immensely EZIO

E30 M3 - S14 Engine:
"The BMW S14 is a straight-4 DOHC piston engine which was used in the E30 M3. It is based on the M10 block and the M88 head with two cylinders removed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S14

E36 M3 - S50 Engine:
"The S50 is higher performance version of the M50 which was used in the M3. Like the M50, it has an iron block and aluminum head with four valves per cylinder."

Upgrades over the M50 include:
-Individual throttle plates for each cylinder
-Increased compression ratio to 11.3:1
-Advanced BMW/Siemens MSS50 engine management system able to compute 20 million instructions per second
-Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust strokes
-Lightweight pistons
-Dual-mass flywheel
-Graphite-coated conrods
-Larger inlet valves
-Second oil pump.

S50B30US:
"The E36 M3 for Canada and USA is powered by a 3.0L tuned version of the M50 which produced 240 hp (179 kW).[8] This engine was based on the M50TU out of the 325 but was bored out to yield greater displacement and utilized the same cylinder head but with more aggressive cams and valvetrain."

Wikipedia doesn't even have a separate page for the S50, it's considered a version of the M50 engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M50#S50

E46 M3 - S54 Engine:
"The S54 is the high performance version of the M50 and was used in the E46 M3, Z3 M Coupé / Roadster, and the E85 Z4 M Roadster / E86 M Coupe.

The S54 is technically an evolution of the iron-block S50B32. It shares few major components with the S50 and differences include:

-Increased cylinder bore to 87 mm (from 86.4 mm) for a new total displacement of 3,246 cc (from 3,201 cc)
-Modified camshafts
-High pressure Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing system with faster operation at high rpm
-Increased compression to 11.5:1 (from 11.3:1)
-More advanced BMW/Siemens MSS 54 engine management control
-Finger-type rocker arms for reduced reciprocating mass and friction
-One-piece aluminum head casting for lighter weight
-Scavenging oil pump to maintain pressure during heavy cornering


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S54B32#S54

So, as history shows, all previous M3 engines, apart from the S65, are based on BMW AG engines and cylinder Blocks. In fact just two different BMW AG engines as the E46 S54 engine also is evolution of the M50 based S50.

And the E36 S50B30US is just a tuned version of the M50. Same block (larger bore) and same cylinder head as the M50, just more aggressive cams.

Compared to the S16, S50 and S54, the S55 follows that same tradition of BMW AG based engine but substantially modified for BMW M use.

Whether it will be as special as the S54 remains to be seen, but it's performance and power delivery characteristics seems to be just as distant from the N55 as the S54 was from the M50 or contemporary M54 engine.

So, instead of seeing the S55 as a case of breaking the tradition of BMW M engines origin, it's the other way round. The S65 and S85 were the two engines that broke with previous BMW M engine origin. They are the ones that stand out as truly unique and breaking the tradition. The S55 (and S63) are once again back to "based on BMW AG engine" tradition for M GmbH.
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      01-01-2014, 01:58 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Some minor fact checking would help immensely EZIO

Compared to the S16, S50 and S54, the S55 follows that same tradition of BMW AG based engine but substantially modified for BMW M use.

Whether it will be as special as the S54 remains to be seen, but it's performance and power delivery characteristics seems to be just as distant from the N55 as the S54 was from the M50 or contemporary M54 engine.

So, instead of seeing the S55 as a case of breaking the tradition of BMW M engines origin, it's the other way round. The S65 and S85 were the two engines that broke with previous BMW M engine origin. They are the ones that stand out as truly unique and breaking the tradition. The S55 (and S63) are once again back to "based on BMW AG engine" tradition for M GmbH.
ya i wasn't 100% sure on the E46. in my statement i was talking about E46, E90, and E60. guess i was wrong on the E46 part.
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      01-01-2014, 02:02 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I yesterday wanted to post the same thing. But now you did

As many of us know already, when the N54 .35i engine came out in 06 BMW had to detune it, easily making 400BHP back to letīs say 300, because otherwise it would destroy the oncoming E9x M3 in terms of straight line performance lol.

But we wonīt go there anymore.

HNY

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill72 View Post
Yes, there were never a "M3 vs 335" debate or a thread or any discussion.
its like talking to kids here.

you totally took that statement out of context. so because you are 11 i will repeat.

there was no debate that the E90 M3 engine and E90 335i had anything similar in common . the V8 was very different.

people like to compare a tuned 335i to M3. for who can hit 60 faster. but again thats a different topic!
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      01-01-2014, 02:03 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
ya i wasn't 100% sure on the E46. in my statement i was talking about E46, E90, and E60. guess i was wrong on the E46 part.
Yeah, and I understand how "youngsters" that grew up with the E9x and E6x M5 with S65 and S85 engines can feel disappointed by BMW using a production engine as base for their new M-engines. But looking back on M3 history, that's what they did APART from the S65...
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      01-01-2014, 02:05 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Yeah, and I understand how "youngsters" that grew up with the E9x and E6x M5 with S65 and S85 engines can feel disappointed by BMW using a production engine as base for their new M-engines. But looking back on M3 history, that's what they did APART from the S65...
i understand. it makes sense
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      01-01-2014, 03:51 PM   #263
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Making it an M4 doesn't improve upon the ugly underlying 4-series design that much - still ugly.
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      01-02-2014, 03:48 PM   #264
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The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
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