CarBahn Autoworks Flash Tunes for Fxx BMW

[CarBahn Autoworks]

Originally Posted by cntzl

Where can we find your warranty agreement to see all the details?

They are listed on the bottom of each respective product's page.
For the F80, you can see it here.

[TR930]

How does this tune compare to Dinan Stage 3? F80 M3

[CarBahn Autoworks]

Originally Posted by TR930

How does this tune compare to Dinan Stage 3? F80 M3

Power figures are nearly identical, ours being slightly higher. Our pricing is significantly less, especially if you opt for the non-warrantied version. And of course, there is the fundamental difference of piggyback vs flash.

[CYA CFA]

OK, so I’ve been lurking for a while now, and it all sounds pretty good so far, but still a bit murky. I’m guessing you’ll publish some stock vs stage 1 dyno charts and we’ll all be relatively happy again. At that point, I’ll be pretty excited to purchase your tune, and I’m expecting that I’ll get it with the warranty (in case $hit hits the fan), but I had some questions about the mechanics of your warranty first.

Apologies in advance if any of this has already been addressed, it’s time consuming and confusing attempting to parse through all of the conversations in the dual threads, as well as the info on your site.

1. In the event of a catastrophic failure, I will likely attempt to conceal your tune (for reasons that I will elaborate on below), but assuming it is discovered and blamed for the failure, what happens next? Do you then step in and work with the dealer directly? What are the timelines, who exactly does the work, are loaners still covered, and is it paid directly or reimbursed?

2. Does your warranty include just the engine, or absolutely anything that BMW disqualifies based on your tune, but that would have been covered had the car been unmodified? An obvious example here would be the DCT, where they might opportunistically argue that additional power placed undue stress.

3. Your exclusion list includes “any vehicle operated in any competitive event or subjected to aggressive track conditions”. You’re referring to IMSA or club racing but NOT HPDE or lapping events, right? The correct answer is “yes, HPDE and lapping events are fine”, BTW, because otherwise that’s going to be a sticking point for a lot of us.

4. Are there any Canada-specific foibles we should be aware of? Shipping or duties on remanufactured parts, for example?

5. Assuming that if the dealer is aware of your tune it will preclude my adding a BMW warranty extension at the 4 year mark, I’ll likely still want to attempt to hide this from them. So when I flash back to my factory tune to go in for oil changes and whatnot:

A. Will the calibration verification number (CVN) will match that of the stock ECU file?
B. Will the flash counter be incremented when the ECU is written?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to clearly answer my questions; I’m sure they will be of interest to many other following this thread.

[Rppngears]

Originally Posted by CYA CFA

1. In the event of a catastrophic failure, I will likely attempt to conceal your tune (for reasons that I will elaborate on below), but assuming it is discovered and blamed for the failure, what happens next? Do you then step in and work with the dealer directly? What are the timelines, who exactly does the work, are loaners still covered, and is it paid directly or reimbursed?

I know they don't cover loaners, but neither did Dinan. Also an HPDE restriction is an over-rated concern. There's no way they would know unless you tell them. For extended warranty just go with a 3rd party vendor such as Carshield. They don't have the level of diagnostics that BMW do and wouldn't have any way to know about the flash.

[CYA CFA]

Originally Posted by Rppngears

Also an HPDE restriction is an over-rated concern. There's no way they would know unless you tell them

Even my dealer doesn't care if I participate in HPDEs. I would be shocked if Steve Dinan did.

Anyways, I appreciate your insight, but I'm optimistic that Carbahn will respond directly point by point, rather than relying on the broader community to infer answers elsewhere and then relay them on their behalf. Getting it from the horse's mouth would provide both more clarity and reassurance.

[CarBahn Autoworks]

Originally Posted by CYA CFA

OK, so I’ve been lurking for a while now, and it all sounds pretty good so far, but still a bit murky. I’m guessing you’ll publish some stock vs stage 1 dyno charts and we’ll all be relatively happy again. At that point, I’ll be pretty excited to purchase your tune, and I’m expecting that I’ll get it with the warranty (in case $hit hits the fan), but I had some questions about the mechanics of your warranty first.

Apologies in advance if any of this has already been addressed, it’s time consuming and confusing attempting to parse through all of the conversations in the dual threads, as well as the info on your site.

1. In the event of a catastrophic failure, I will likely attempt to conceal your tune (for reasons that I will elaborate on below), but assuming it is discovered and blamed for the failure, what happens next? Do you then step in and work with the dealer directly? What are the timelines, who exactly does the work, are loaners still covered, and is it paid directly or reimbursed?

2. Does your warranty include just the engine, or absolutely anything that BMW disqualifies based on your tune, but that would have been covered had the car been unmodified? An obvious example here would be the DCT, where they might opportunistically argue that additional power placed undue stress.

3. Your exclusion list includes “any vehicle operated in any competitive event or subjected to aggressive track conditions”. You’re referring to IMSA or club racing but NOT HPDE or lapping events, right? The correct answer is “yes, HPDE and lapping events are fine”, BTW, because otherwise that’s going to be a sticking point for a lot of us.

4. Are there any Canada-specific foibles we should be aware of? Shipping or duties on remanufactured parts, for example?

5. Assuming that if the dealer is aware of your tune it will preclude my adding a BMW warranty extension at the 4 year mark, I’ll likely still want to attempt to hide this from them. So when I flash back to my factory tune to go in for oil changes and whatnot:

A. Will the calibration verification number (CVN) will match that of the stock ECU file?
B. Will the flash counter be incremented when the ECU is written?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to clearly answer my questions; I’m sure they will be of interest to many other following this thread.

Great questions. Answers below, respectively:

1. Generally speaking, we won't ask you to, and we actually prefer that you do not try and conceal the tune. This is has been, and still is Steve's approach on doing business ethically- that if we are to blame for a failure, we should be the ones to step up and handle the concern rather than trying to put the blame on someone not responsible - BMW in this case. The ideal sequence of events would be that if you experience a failure, you would call us, and we will suggest for you a trusted shop (we have about 200 around the country) to do a diagnosis. If the independent diagnosis tells us that we are to blame, we will take care of it, direct payment to the repair facility. You won't be asked to foot the bill, unless you somehow prefer to. Timelines will of course vary depending on the type of repair, parts availability, etc.. but we will handle every issue with urgency. We do not cover the cost of rentals or loaners, but if the car is at a BMW dealership, at their discretion they may or may not provide you a loaner out of their fleet.

2. Our coverage will be on anything that is affected by the modification. Of course, the claim needs to 'make sense' for us to agree.

3. We consider a competitive event to be one that is timed, and/or scored. Driving schools and things of that nature are no issue.

4. There are duties, but we're not sure exactly what it would amount to.

5.
A. Yes, CVN will match.
B. No, flash counters will be reset.

Hope this helps!

[CYA CFA]

Thanks, now we're getting somewhere quickly. A couple of follow-ups:

Originally Posted by CarBahn Autoworks

1. Generally speaking, we won't ask you to, and we actually prefer that you do not try and conceal the tune. This is has been, and still is Steve's approach on doing business ethically- that if we are to blame for a failure, we should be the ones to step up and handle the concern rather than trying to put the blame on someone not responsible - BMW in this case.

That's my preference as well, and the reason I'm truthful about the HPDEs and lapping days. But I do anticipate extending the BMW factory bumper to bumper warranty - I believe it's referred to as VSC at the moment. Will you also match that coverage, then? I wouldn't expect you to do so for third party stuff, but given that BMW is willing to warranty their product for that period, are you as well?

Originally Posted by CarBahn Autoworks

The ideal sequence of events would be that if you experience a failure, you would call us, and we will suggest for you a trusted shop (we have about 200 around the country) to do a diagnosis. If the independent diagnosis tells us that we are to blame, we will take care of it, direct payment to the repair facility.

May I insist that the diagnosis and repair be done at my nearest BMW dealership? It's the only place I go as it's proximal and I have a job and kids. Driving out to tuner shops in the burbs isn't going to happen.

Originally Posted by CarBahn Autoworks

3. We consider a competitive event to be one that is timed, and/or scored. Driving schools and things of that nature are no issue.

That's a clear and fair delineation. I have no problem with that.

Originally Posted by CarBahn Autoworks

4. There are duties, but we're not sure exactly what it would amount to.

So I'm not on the hook for shipping, but I am on the hook for duties? Have you ever done this in practice?

[Kenbo]

Will the tune be 50 state emissions legal, or will we have to flash back to stock prior to a smog test?

[CarBahn Autoworks]

Originally Posted by CYA CFA

Thanks, now we're getting somewhere quickly. A couple of follow-ups:



That's my preference as well, and the reason I'm truthful about the HPDEs and lapping days. But I do anticipate extending the BMW factory bumper to bumper warranty - I believe it's referred to as VSC at the moment. Will you also match that coverage, then? I wouldn't expect you to do so for third party stuff, but given that BMW is willing to warranty their product for that period, are you as well?




May I insist that the diagnosis and repair be done at my nearest BMW dealership? It's the only place I go as it's proximal and I have a job and kids. Driving out to tuner shops in the burbs isn't going to happen.



That's a clear and fair delineation. I have no problem with that.



So I'm not on the hook for shipping, but I am on the hook for duties? Have you ever done this in practice?

Sorry, beyond the 4yr/50k we can't match any warranties, factory or otherwise. You may want to double check if having a flagged VIN disqualified you only from CPO enrollment, or extended contracts as well. If memory serves, only CPO enrollment is prohibited with a flagged VIN. Please correct me if I am wrong.

We will have no issue with a franchised BMW dealership performing repairs and/or diagnoses, but we will send you the parts in some cases. A good example would be in case of an engine failure, we would send you a CarBahn rebuilt engine instead of paying for a factory reman. If that were to happen, you would also have the option of upgrading to a built motor at the same time, but that's a whole another thing.

For the shipping/duties question, are you referring to purchasing product from us, or what happens if we have to ship you a part for warranty?

Originally Posted by Kenbo

Will the tune be 50 state emissions legal, or will we have to flash back to stock prior to a smog test?

We are applying for emissions legality right now, which can be a lengthy process. As of right now, it is not emissions legal for road use.

[CYA CFA]

Originally Posted by CarBahn Autoworks

You may want to double check if having a flagged VIN disqualified you only from CPO enrollment, or extended contracts as well. If memory serves, only CPO enrollment is prohibited with a flagged VIN.

Assuming you're correct, would your expectation be that the BMW extended warranty would then cover the car other than power-train, more or less?

Originally Posted by CarBahn Autoworks

We will have no issue with a franchised BMW dealership performing repairs and/or diagnoses, but we will send you the parts in some cases. A good example would be in case of an engine failure, we would send you a CarBahn rebuilt engine instead of paying for a factory reman.

For the shipping/duties question, are you referring to purchasing product from us, or what happens if we have to ship you a part for warranty?

The latter, and exactly the scenario you described above, wherein you deem it more cost effective to swap out the engine with one of your rebuilds rather than paying BMW to repair it. I imagine the freight costs and applicable duties would be hefty, and that it would be round trip presuming you want a core back. Would I be exposed to any of this, either logistically or monetarily, or could I just leave it at the dealer and have you sort the whole thing out, soup to nuts?

[CarBahn Autoworks]

Originally Posted by CYA CFA

Assuming you're correct, would your expectation be that the BMW extended warranty would then cover the car other than power-train, more or less?

The latter, and exactly the scenario you described above, wherein you deem it more cost effective to swap out the engine with one of your rebuilds rather than paying BMW to repair it. I imagine the freight costs and applicable duties would be hefty, and that it would be round trip presuming you want a core back. Would I be exposed to any of this, either logistically or monetarily, or could I just leave it at the dealer and have you sort the whole thing out, soup to nuts?

That would be the correct expectation if a flagged VIN does not prevent you from enrolling in the extended warranty.

In that scenario, we would handle both freight and duties. Thank you for the clarification. Logistically we do not expect you to have to do anything, because we will ship any and all parts directly to the dealership, and we will be available to guide the dealership should they have any questions.

[CYA CFA]

Originally Posted by CarBahn Autoworks

That would be the correct expectation if a flagged VIN does not prevent you from enrolling in the extended warranty.

In that scenario, we would handle both freight and duties. Thank you for the clarification. Logistically we do not expect you to have to do anything, because we will ship any and all parts directly to the dealership, and we will be available to guide the dealership should they have any questions.

Thanks - that's all very reasonable. And your packages and discounts are locked in until the end of October?

[Kuervers]

Can i install it on my S55 powered M2 competition?

Have BMS intake on order and would likely want to install catless downpipes/charge pipe if i were to tune. Warranty still valid with supporting mods like those?

[ptper]

Originally Posted by CarBahn Autoworks

We are developing optional features such as startup roar and overrun, and those will be available separately in the future.

Any idea on timing? Are we talking weeks or months?

Will you be providing 1/4 mile times in addition to dyno plots?

[CarBahn Autoworks]

Originally Posted by CYA CFA

Thanks - that's all very reasonable. And your packages and discounts are locked in until the end of October?

Yup, the 20% discounts are until the end of October.

Originally Posted by Kuervers

Can i install it on my S55 powered M2 competition?

Have BMS intake on order and would likely want to install catless downpipes/charge pipe if i were to tune. Warranty still valid with supporting mods like those?

We will be testing an M2C in the near future to check compatibility. We think it should be compatible, but won't know until we try.

Those particular mods will not void the warranty. However, the warranty won't cover any diagnoses/etc needed that are caused by the supporting modifications.

Originally Posted by ptper

Any idea on timing? Are we talking weeks or months?

Will you be providing 1/4 mile times in addition to dyno plots?

Will be ready by the end of the week.
We will not be putting out any 1/4 mile times, but will provide dyno plots before the end of the week.

[Kuervers]

Originally Posted by CarBahn Autoworks

Yup, the 20% discounts are until the end of October.



We will be testing an M2C in the near future to check compatibility. We think it should be compatible, but won't know until we try.

Those particular mods will not void the warranty. However, the warranty won't cover any diagnoses/etc needed that are caused by the supporting modifications.

Can I reserve a discount once confirmed ?
Makes sense maf sensors debris into motor etc gotcha.

Any dyno sheets to show torque curve?
Does tune need any supporting mods or just charge pipes for extra boost pressure?

[CarBahn Autoworks]

Originally Posted by Kuervers

Can I reserve a discount once confirmed ?
Makes sense maf sensors debris into motor etc gotcha.

Any dyno sheets to show torque curve?
Does tune need any supporting mods or just charge pipes for extra boost pressure?

It should be noted that you can't run any piggybacks stacked on top of the tune if you want to preserve our warranty.

Sorry, we can't reserve any discounts for products not currently out, but we may run some kind of intro special for that as well once it is released.

We are working on getting the dyno sheets published, however the majority of our team is on the other side of the country for our final race in IMSA, so it may need to wait until they are back.

All our testing has been on 100% factory hardware including charge pipes, but you can feel free to upgrade them for peace of mind if desired.

[Kuervers]

Originally Posted by CarBahn Autoworks

It should be noted that you can't run any piggybacks stacked on top of the tune if you want to preserve our warranty.

Sorry, we can't reserve any discounts for products not currently out, but we may run some kind of intro special for that as well once it is released.

We are working on getting the dyno sheets published, however the majority of our team is on the other side of the country for our final race in IMSA, so it may need to wait until they are back.

All our testing has been on 100% factory hardware including charge pipes, but you can feel free to upgrade them for peace of mind if desired.

Okay wasn't sure if you would sell m4 package to m2c owners with warranty.
Your going to test with m2c and release specific warrantied tune?

[M4309]

Originally Posted by CarBahn Autoworks

It should be noted that you can't run any piggybacks stacked on top of the tune if you want to preserve our warranty.

Sorry, we can't reserve any discounts for products not currently out, but we may run some kind of intro special for that as well once it is released.

We are working on getting the dyno sheets published, however the majority of our team is on the other side of the country for our final race in IMSA, so it may need to wait until they are back.

All our testing has been on 100% factory hardware including charge pipes, but you can feel free to upgrade them for peace of mind if desired.

looking fwd to dynos and especially seeing the torque curve and when it kicks in.....

[Rppngears]

What happened to the dyno results? Are you guys still tweaking the tune?

[M4309]

Originally Posted by Rppngears

What happened to the dyno results? Are you guys still tweaking the tune?

same question