Well guys she finally spun...

[matty088]

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

Given its a fact that it happens on stock cars and there are 700+whp cars that it hasn’t happened on what supports this theory? In my mind its literally just harmonics that causes it like on some other cars where flywheel bolts would end up backing out over time which again had zero to do with actual power output but harmonics of the engine.

there are some anomalies of stocks cars having experienced this. Those are outside the bell curve and should be thrown out. The majority are e85 or higher.

Who knows how those few stock cars were driven. throw em out. But its pretty clear there is a trend to e85, upgraded turbos, etc

[chewbakam4]

Originally Posted by matty088

there are some anomalies of stocks cars having experienced this. Those are outside the bell curve and should be thrown out. The majority are e85 or higher.

Who knows how those few stock cars were driven. throw em out. But its pretty clear there is a trend to e85, upgraded turbos, etc

I don’t think you can just “throw’em out” when it just happened the other day again someone reported

[matty088]

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

I don’t think you can just “throw’em out” when it just happened the other day again someone reported

Why not? Its likely .0000001% of the data set. what does timing have to do with it?

[Schultz28]

Originally Posted by matty088

Why not? Its likely .0000001% of the data set. what does timing have to do with it?

The crank hub failure itself is fraction of a percent.

There are mayyybe a couple hundred of these cases at most right now...?

How many M3/M4/M2's with the S55 have been produced? Easily north of 60,000. You have less than a .333% chance of it happening.

Also, there are guys running upgraded turbos with E85 and no crank hub fix or problems.

[matty088]

Originally Posted by Schultz28

The crank hub failure itself is fraction of a percent.

There are mayyybe a couple hundred of these cases at most right now...?

How many M3/M4/M2's with the S55 have been produced? Easily north of 60,000. You have less than a .333% chance of it happening.

Not sure you can think of it that way. no idea about the actual stats. But id wager it happens far less with stock cars.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Schultz28

The crank hub failure itself is fraction of a percent.

There are mayyybe a couple hundred of these cases at most right now...?

How many M3/M4/M2's with the S55 have been produced? Easily north of 60,000. You have less than a .333% chance of it happening.

Also, there are guys running upgraded turbos with E85 and no crank hub fix or problems.

Much higher, it was estimated 75k as of July 2018. Who knows how many now?

[Schultz28]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

Much higher, it was estimated 75k as of July 2018. Who knows how many now?

Yeah, I mean that furthers my point.

It is such a small fraction of a percent of cars that are having this problem.

[Lerxst M4]

Originally Posted by TKT2SPEED

F90's have other weak points

Yeah, I agree - but I came from an F10 and F13 (tuned) and I think the rod issue has been improved on and the DCT slippage issues at high torque are a thing of the past now with the ZF8.

I really just miss the S63

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by matty088

there are some anomalies of stocks cars having experienced this. Those are outside the bell curve and should be thrown out. The majority are e85 or higher.

Who knows how those few stock cars were driven. throw em out. But its pretty clear there is a trend to e85, upgraded turbos, etc

Some of the stock cars are known to have had a money shift on a 6MT that caused the SCH.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by Railgun

So, not far off in the grand scheme of things then.

While you say the same thing that I would say, I can say that I don't even think I've touched 7k, let alone redline.

Based on everything else in this forum about this, it HAS to be associated with these revolutions and vibrations associated with them. Not necessarily a power or torque thing...given stock tunes also experience this. There's too much information missing in all of these threads to come up with anything conclusive...it's all about "I was backing out of the garage," and "I was only doing 50," or whatever. Never what was done last month, week, or 20 minutes prior that brought the motor into the condition to cause this.

I don't know that there will be any conclusive information unless BMW themselves investigate the issue and take the tune colored glasses off and do it objectively.

Have some of these tuners properly developed their kits on real engine dynos and measure this kind of thing? Probably not.

I think the easy answer in the meantime is keep the revs below 7K. Given most of these tunes fall off on power there anyway, no reason to hit those numbers.

I definitely see a correlation between increased power and high revs causing the hub to slip. My buddy also spun his crank hub with full E85 and 6MT. He drove through a slight bump on the freeway at high speeds, went airborne for a split second (potentially over-revved the engine), and then instant SCH upon landing.

Like you mentioned, we read a lot about what the car was doing when the hub spins out of place, but people fail to fully disclose what took place prior to them backing out of a garage...

[melvyn]

Have any 2018 buit cars had the SCH problem, as BM must be fully aware of it.

[G4BR13L]

Originally Posted by melvyn

Have any 2018 buit cars had the SCH problem, as BM must be fully aware of it.

Read the other threads. AFAIK there are reported cases for all model years. BMW will never acknowledge that there is a problem because honestly there is no problem. Yes there are F8x that had a spin of the crank hub and someone heard of someone who had it but it is not a general issue that can even be reproduced. Install a crank bolt capture and the problem is resolved.

[matty088]

Originally Posted by G4BR13L

Read the other threads. AFAIK there are reported cases for all model years. BMW will never acknowledge that there is a problem because honestly there is no problem. Yes there are F8x that had a spin of the crank hub and someone heard of someone who had it but it is not a general issue that can even be reproduced. Install a crank bolt capture and the problem is resolved.

Is it resolved by adding a crank bolt capture? Could you link me to the part please.

Really bummed this issue exists. It weighs heavily on the platform as a whole. I am so nervous to run a tune. Even stage 1. It seems like even stage 1 is darn close to the threshold where risk increases meaningfully.

[gemini.m3]

So if we add the crank capture it can still throw codes and timing can be off right? It just won’t catastrophically damage the engine??

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3

So if we add the crank capture it can still throw codes and timing can be off right? It just won’t catastrophically damage the engine??

Most of the SCH have not catastrophically damaged the engine.

[melvyn]

Originally Posted by G4BR13L

Read the other threads. AFAIK there are reported cases for all model years. BMW will never acknowledge that there is a problem because honestly there is no problem. Yes there are F8x that had a spin of the crank hub and someone heard of someone who had it but it is not a general issue that can even be reproduced. Install a crank bolt capture and the problem is resolved.

Sorry, I shouldnt have to do that.Once the car is out of warranty and it spins, means people are at the mercy of BM to fix it.
If you install the fix in warranty, BM supposadly,wont honour the warranty.

[G4BR13L]

Originally Posted by melvyn

Sorry, I shouldnt have to do that.Once the car is out of warranty and it spins, means people are at the mercy of BM to fix it.
If you install the fix in warranty, BM supposadly,wont honour the warranty.

Yes they will if you install the crank bolt capture but not if you install a new crank hub. Even outside warranty you will be able to arrange something commercially with BMW. Not saying that the crank bolt capture is the only solution because the gear can spin around the crank hub but from what I have read it seems to fix it. I guess it has to do with the harmonics of the engine and the ‘harmonic’ (vibration) damper being too lightweight for the car especially in cases wherr the crankshaft is constantly spinning at high RPM.

[melvyn]

Originally Posted by G4BR13L

Yes they will if you install the crank bolt capture but not if you install a new crank hub. Even outside warranty you will be able to arrange something commercially with BMW. Not saying that the crank bolt capture is the only solution because the gear can spin around the crank hub but from what I have read it seems to fix it. I guess it has to do with the harmonics of the engine and the ‘harmonic’ (vibration) damper being too lightweight for the car especially in cases wherr the crankshaft is constantly spinning at high RPM.

Wow, well that is news.Must make a few enquiries with people in the know in UK.I know the Evolve F80 was paid out from BM which was tuned when it spun its hub.Am new to tuning but thought I would give it a go with the BM3 stage1 tune, think its fabulous, but this SCH just sticks in ones head a bit and sort of spoils the enjoyment as i like to take my car to the redline.
Thanks.

[Gtracer]

Originally Posted by melvyn

Wow, well that is news.Must make a few enquiries with people in the know in UK.I know the Evolve F80 was paid out from BM which was tuned when it spun its hub.Am new to tuning but thought I would give it a go with the BM3 stage1 tune, think its fabulous, but this SCH just sticks in ones head a bit and sort of spoils the enjoyment as i like to take my car to the redline.
Thanks.

Idk about everyone else here but I absolutely LOVE driving my F80 pretty hard. I have not thought twice about the SCH issue. Seeing the number of BP members that have reported and the statistics I have on hand,it is not alarming when you consider the sheer volume of these cars produced. I think it's totally situational and I'm sure there is a specific harmonic frequency that causes the issue. I fully intend on going stage 2 soon and will consider the bolt capture or crank hub solutions when I plan on upgrading turbos. For now, it's WFO. I look forward to reading this ongoing discussion and learning more about it.

[matty088]

Originally Posted by Gtracer

Idk about everyone else here but I absolutely LOVE driving my F80 pretty hard. I have not thought twice about the SCH issue. Seeing the number of BP members that have reported and the statistics I have on hand,it is not alarming when you consider the sheer volume of these cars produced. I think it's totally situational and I'm sure there is a specific harmonic frequency that causes the issue. I fully intend on going stage 2 soon and will consider the bolt capture or crank hub solutions when I plan on upgrading turbos. For now, it's WFO. I look forward to reading this ongoing discussion and learning more about it.

There aren’t statistics.
There is a forum which is small handful of people participated in.

[Gtracer]

Originally Posted by matty088

There aren’t statistics.
There is a forum which is small handful of people participated in.

As I stated, the statistic's I have on hand. The members who have given their experience.

[climax_e92]

Update*

Car was towed yesterday. Will begin work on Monday and give an update when available. ET for completion is Friday/Saturday. Opted for the Maximum PSI crank hub instead of the VTT.