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      11-07-2019, 11:27 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
Yes, Cayenne Turbo can tow a 3.5-tonne braked trailer. Panamera Turbo w/ PDK only 2.2 tonnes. The same with BMW - no OEM towing options for DCT F8x while F90 M5 and M SUV's do have that option from the factory.

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If you want to tow and are not getting a three row SUV then just get a Super Crew cab truck.
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      11-07-2019, 12:32 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
If you want to tow and are not getting a three row SUV then just get a Super Crew cab truck.
I am in Europe. People here tow caravans with VW Golfs.
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      11-07-2019, 01:06 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by swagon View Post
I am in Europe. People here tow caravans with VW Golfs.
I've seen on Top Gear.
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      11-11-2019, 12:14 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Porsche is all about ///Marketing... sure they are nice cars, and I like mine a lot, but there are many other places to get similar or better performance for less money
Nick you of all people know that the cost curve to buy a brand new vehicle at a certain performance pinnacle has reached an almost flat line above about $75k. Of course you can get the same or better performance for less money than a $125-200k 911.

You don't buy a brand new 911 for that anymore. Nor ferrari, nor McLaren, etc.

You can call it marketing, and that's fine, but they aren't claiming to be top performance per dollar anymore.
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      11-18-2019, 06:35 PM   #137
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I just wish they'd remake Z4Ms, I'd never drive anything else.
Same here. It's the reason I started looking at new 718s, but was fortunate enough to find my 981 GT4 without killing my budget too much. If BMW made a Z4M I would have stayed . My Z4M was the best Bimmer I ever owned and I've been through quite a few Ms.
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      12-02-2019, 12:15 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by jochy69 View Post
My biggest disappointment with BMW is that they are throwing the "M" on everything thats not really an "M", taking the value and excitement away from owning an "M" vehicle. after 4 BMWs, this is for sure the last one I own... going out like a champ with my M4
It's funny, I was driving yesterday and saw an x2 M35i and thought to my self, why on earth is bmw putting the m badge on every model... it really waters down the m line and takes away the appeal
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      12-07-2019, 05:58 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by alscks0414 View Post
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Originally Posted by alscks0414 View Post


However, after seeing the new 2 series grand coupe, now i am even started to worry if BMW will keep this front wheel biased drivetrain with ZF auto for next G87 M2?! Hell no..... please..


The 2 series GC is based upon the new 1 series. The G87 will be a completely different animal with RWD. Probably something like a shrunken G82 with the S58.
I know it is based on new 1 series that is not available in NA. They should not have called it as 2 series, just making more confusion
In your original post, it seemed as if you were taking the 2gc as an indication of what the new 2 series and m2 will be like though. Your fears were unfounded though, because as you now realize, the 2gc has nothing to do with any actual 2 series platform. Yes bmw could have alleviated confusion by calling it a 1 series or whatever, but if you know the real difference, who cares what they call it.
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      12-21-2019, 01:54 AM   #140
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I know I’ll still love the new G80s awd performance. But, it’s gotta face only it’s mama can love.
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      12-23-2019, 02:28 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
Sorry to hear that. I didn’t realize it was, in some cases, that bad! It sucks bc there are some great American made cars, but as the old adage goes, you get what you pay for. Even the new C8 I’ve heard really isn’t any better inside from people who’ve been in it and in all honesty I’m not surprised given the starting price. It’s a shame, but that’s the reality of how it goes sometimes.
Whoever said that is a bitter brand snob, the C8 has a far better interior than 90% of BMW's.
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      12-24-2019, 01:24 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Towerworld View Post
Whoever said that is a bitter brand snob, the C8 has a far better interior than 90% of BMW's.
C8 interior looks fine. As did the C7.

The question is how long before: you hear rattles, you start seeing wear on the seats and steering wheel, button labels smudging off, interior smelling like every other GM product. In fact the corvette forum guys make fun of it saying how on a hot day they catch a buzz off the glue/resin smell

Porsche Factory:




Corvette Factory:

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      12-25-2019, 11:53 PM   #143
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In my opinion,

All cars including BMW are forced to develop engines that are more fuel efficient & emissions compliant... efficient engines have less friction which may translate to quieter engines, hence active sound design?
Also, the HP wars means each new model has to be faster than previous one, so suspension set up is stiffer, hence harsher ride compared to older BMWs, in the process making cars feel numb/isolated when driving on the street. Newer cars are more fun than older gen cars on the track where newer cars become engaging when driven close to the limit.

Current generation American cars drive somewhat like older generation BMWs did... I am sure future generation American cars would also feel numb/isolated as they become more refined and capable due to emission requirements and market demands for more horsepower.

A 997 911 feels more engaging at street speed than a 991 911 but at the same time the 991 is more engaging than 997 at the track where it could be driven at/near the limit!

Simply put (in my opinion), any car feels more engaging when driven near/at its limit, so older generation cars were more fun at lower speeds since their limits were lower!
It's the process of evolution...
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      12-26-2019, 08:47 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
C8 interior looks fine. As did the C7.

The question is how long before: you hear rattles, you start seeing wear on the seats and steering wheel, button labels smudging off, interior smelling like every other GM product. In fact the corvette forum guys make fun of it saying how on a hot day they catch a buzz off the glue/resin smell

Porsche Factory:




Corvette Factory:

And yet even with bringing Porsche many briefcases full of cash more than a Vette they still have had some very highly publicized issues.

All manufacturers do no matter how fancy the factory is.
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      12-26-2019, 12:21 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
And yet even with bringing Porsche many briefcases full of cash more than a Vette they still have had some very highly publicized issues.

All manufacturers do no matter how fancy the factory is.
Yep. High price does not equal reliability.
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      01-10-2020, 01:00 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMan33 View Post
In my opinion,

All cars including BMW are forced to develop engines that are more fuel efficient & emissions compliant... efficient engines have less friction which may translate to quieter engines, hence active sound design?
Also, the HP wars means each new model has to be faster than previous one, so suspension set up is stiffer, hence harsher ride compared to older BMWs, in the process making cars feel numb/isolated when driving on the street. Newer cars are more fun than older gen cars on the track where newer cars become engaging when driven close to the limit.

Current generation American cars drive somewhat like older generation BMWs did... I am sure future generation American cars would also feel numb/isolated as they become more refined and capable due to emission requirements and market demands for more horsepower.

A 997 911 feels more engaging at street speed than a 991 911 but at the same time the 991 is more engaging than 997 at the track where it could be driven at/near the limit!

Simply put (in my opinion), any car feels more engaging when driven near/at its limit, so older generation cars were more fun at lower speeds since their limits were lower!
It's the process of evolution...
In a recent interview, Albert Biermann (head of M at the time) stated that M was forced to go to turbos as a cost saving measure by BMW corporate. M was against it, but overruled.



^stated in the 40-50 minute range.

So, there's your reason why M cars now have turbos, while Porsche GT cars and Corvette have been able to get away without it, right from the horse's mouth-- cost savings.
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      01-10-2020, 01:40 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
In a recent interview, Albert Biermann (head of M at the time) stated that M was forced to go to turbos as a cost saving measure by BMW corporate. M was against it, but overruled.



^stated in the 40-50 minute range.

So, there's your reason why M cars now have turbos, while Porsche GT cars and Corvette have been able to get away without it, right from the horse's mouth-- cost savings.
Did Hyundai tell him the same thing? His first offering from them is a turbo 4 banger.
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      01-10-2020, 02:16 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Did Hyundai tell him the same thing? His first offering from them is a turbo 4 banger.
I'd assume so, given that they start in the low $20k range.
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      01-10-2020, 07:31 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
In a recent interview, Albert Biermann (head of M at the time) stated that M was forced to go to turbos as a cost saving measure by BMW corporate. M was against it, but overruled.

^stated in the 40-50 minute range.

So, there's your reason why M cars now have turbos, while Porsche GT cars and Corvette have been able to get away without it, right from the horse's mouth-- cost savings.
Corvette can get away with it because the small block family of V8 is used to power a huge number of pickups.

Porsche can get away with it because they have the highest profit per vehicle thanks to their SUVs

The workhorse SUV and trucks throw off the $$$ to make the motorsports toys that we love.

On the BMW side, they had all the CF stuff, wide body kit and a lot of other goodies in the F80 M3, probably thanks to all the SUV profits too.

As an aside, if Toyota threw an S55 into the Supra, it might be the ideal BMW and the Z4M that a lot of people want.
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      01-11-2020, 07:02 AM   #150
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NA or turbo engines in M/AMG cars...
Sometimes larger automakers like GM & Ford can still make NA sports cars since so many other cars in their line up are fuel efficient/have small turbo engines, therefore meeting the "fleet average" need for mandated fuel emissions.
Not sure if Porsche's fleet average for emissions are clubbed with VW?
BMW M car sales make up for a significant portion of their total sales, so having NA engines might not satisfy the fleet average emissions requirement.
Then there's cost saving too... when you design 1 engine for the regular series model & modify it for M car use... eg. V8 in M5/M6/M8/X5M/X6M is based on the V8 in series 5/7/8/X5/X6/X7... the advantage of this to buyers is that you get a higher engineered/overbuilt engine when you buy a regular series BMW but those buyers who pay extra for the M models don't get special engines anymore...
Similar case at AMG and even Porsche (starting 991.1 gen, same basic 9A1 engine in Carrera and Turbo models, no special Metzger anymore)...
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      02-10-2020, 10:27 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Corvette can get away with it because the small block family of V8 is used to power a huge number of pickups.

Porsche can get away with it because they have the highest profit per vehicle thanks to their SUVs

The workhorse SUV and trucks throw off the $$$ to make the motorsports toys that we love.

On the BMW side, they had all the CF stuff, wide body kit and a lot of other goodies in the F80 M3, probably thanks to all the SUV profits too.

As an aside, if Toyota threw an S55 into the Supra, it might be the ideal BMW and the Z4M that a lot of people want.

If Toyota does something like that, they'll use the S58 engine from the X3M and the G8x cars.
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