2016 F80 base audio upgrade, the start

[NealfromNZ]

Car went to the local BMW dealer today and I asked them to update the Service history on the new ID6 unit. With the retrofit the service history was for the donne vehicle.

They did struggle a bit with this and called. I mentioned that I read that all they needed to do was was create an entry. The dealer did that and when my partner picked up they apologised as the car only showed the latest history entry.

I checked later that night and full service history was there and assume the rest must have downloaded over the air via the 4g ATM module.

I don’t have “connected services” as not able to get it as car was imported to different country ( UK to NZ) as BMW NZ saying not allowed to do so. But the car is obviously still connected via 4g country roaming for functions like BMW service history.

[NealfromNZ]

Sound treated the trunk. Did the trunk lid a while back which made quite a difference. Also wanted to cover trunk floor and storage area. Without treatment the area has a high resonance when tapped or knocked. Used Dynamat extreme squared which is a new product that comes in flat sheets so it’s not folded over itself. Originally was going to use soundskins which is a three layer product and closer to 4mm thick. But couldn’t get locally. I think if I was in the USA I’d use Resonix.

However, with Dynamat at 2mm think it means carpet and carpet trim will go back into place. I didn’t cover the area where the fuse box and ATM module sits. The panel is quite strong and I wanted the area to look OE so no sound treatment.

I also treated the area around the amplifier location and part of the panels around that area. I decided not to do the fendares. Didn’t want any chance of the roller process distorting those panels.

Played a few tracks with high energy bass and this has improved the low end further with less rattles at high volume. Goytee “ Why Worry” is great for Sub bass / Mid bass. Bass has become tighter.

[NealfromNZ]

Managed to get the ID4 phone (USB2) iphone6 lightening cradle back into the ID6 menu.

Just needed one of the USB parameters coded to SIA

[NealfromNZ]

Thought I’d put together a cost summary of this system in $NZD for a rough guide. Not sure if I could done this cheaper to get the system to current level, but could have certainly spent more on higher end door components. This is my hobby so get enjoyment from putting systems together and tuning.

Retrofit of idrive 6 added cost and gained nothing in sound quality over ID4 , but needed MS teams calling and CarPlay app ecosystem to do this in a safe manner. Best audio results are via usb / cd /dvd inputs over BMWs Most digital audio.

Speakers
2 sets of Focal es100k $1500
MOBRIDGE 8.1.1 amp $2000
Morel 8 inch BMW subs. $1050
Sub Boston Acoustic ( from old system ) $0 But about $700 in 2010
Sub Box / Penn HD speaker carpet, Speakon $150
HK 8 inch speakers and enclosures $240 ( will sell hk 8s)

Sound treatment
Dynamat sound deadening $430

Wiring
Silver tinned speaker cable for new looms $320
4gauge power / fuse holder / lugs $80

Trim
Front HK door trims $190
Rear HK door tweeter brackets $90
HK speaker covers $120

Misc
BMW. Pins and connectors $120
Trim removal tools , crimp and pin tools $140

Coding tools
Bimmercode ( limited use needed BU ) $175
Mhd wifi dongle $190
Bimmer Utility, should have brought instead. $140
Enet cable $40

Idrive 6 / touch screen/ controller. $2000

So roughly $8800 NZD / $5300 usd to build without selling off iD4 unit / screen / hk woofers worth about $2000 on nz market.
Was it worth it ? Hell yes !

So what’s next ? I continue to refine my DSP maps for single and multiseat. At some stage will come back and post refined settings and some RTA graphs.

But also onto next project , a 60s English Mini restomod / cafe racer and associated period looking audio system.

[m4shifter]

Read through the entire thread, amazing work!

Did the road noise cancellation somewhat worked out in the end?

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by m4shifter

Read through the entire thread, amazing work!

Did the road noise cancellation somewhat worked out in the end?

Thank you !

The sound damping did help a bit with road noise. Must go for another drive and measure. But biggest gain was in sub bass. The trunk doesn’t create rattles like it did so cleaned up the audio nicely.

Was also able to reduce bass gain by 3 db and still hit the audio target curve so effectively it’s doubled the power available on the sub bass. The mid bass drivers in the doors can be run to near power limits with no apparent rattles , buzzing or resonances.

I think to cut road noise further would require additional products like Resonix but what is done is a good compromise between good audio without killing off the sound of an M3.

[NealfromNZ]

Was investigating a rattle and a null around 160hz ( upper bass ) . Found one of the underseat woofer the speaker grill mounting tabs had broken. Bit of glue and plastic welded a cable tie around it.

Took the opportunity to add some sound deadening under the woofer enclosure and in the enclosure. It did dampen the knuckle tap test on enclosure. But testing after with music I couldn’t decern any difference. But that curved area under the woofer enclosure is quite strong compared to flat panels so doesn’t resonate

I popped the Harman Kardon 8 inch woofers for a back to back comparison with the Morels. Here’s the results with no EQ an and run from 20-110hz like the factory setup. ( eg , no trunk sub) . Volume was around half way on idrive. The Morels have greater sub bass output below 60hz than the Harman Kardons. But that was to be expected. The Morels have nice articulation on bass notes and hold together well at high volumes.

[NealfromNZ]

After a brief discussion with Mobridge on software there was a side conversation about DSP maps.

The Mobridge has 4 dsp maps available, but BMW HK and B&O menus only have two maps available for F Series on the Idrive menu.

Was talking about the possibility of using more DSP maps and apperently in earlier BMW Head units had 3 sound maps which Mobridge had mapped to amp and dsp
products.

With ID5 / ID6 the later versions B&O was phased out and was replaced by B&W as the high end version in higher end BMW models ( 5-7 series and x5-x7 series)

Was looking at some screenshots and B&W idrive has 5 dsp slots.

I coded my ID6 to B&W menu to see what would happen. Low and behold the first three B&W sound settings mapped to the first 3 Mobridge DSP profiles giving me an extra one. So now can run three DSP maps controlled via idrive. 😀

So I’ll do a third dsp map with a bit more sub bass so something like a .5 Whitledge which will be useful for metal like FFDP / Within Temptation etc to fill out the boot on end.

One thing that is lost with B&W coding is the Auto level control as B&W system uses an extra mic to determine background noise level rather than speed.

While I was at it I coded GTS82 steering, MDM and Diff ( no flashing needed ). Looking forward to going for a drive !

[NealfromNZ]

Noticed this on my Apple Watch today. Looks like the BMW app as also been ported to Iwatch

[NealfromNZ]

I asked MObridge about the possibility of mapping the Idrive B&W menu settings to four DSP profile Maps on the 8.1.1 DSP amp. MObridge was more than happy to help and I must say , their customer service has been excellent through this project. They really go the extra mile !

A quick remote session with them connected to Amplifier and myself on controlling Idrive menus. I went through the B&W menu sound profiles and the engineer was able to see the mappings being sent on the MOST bus.

Within a week the engineer had coded the mappings and sent through test amplifier software for me to load and test.

So with test software B&W Menus can use all four DSP slots on the Mobridge. No need for additional controllers or anything. As Mobridge do regular software updates no doubt this feature will make to to production on the product lines once all the usual testing they do has been completed.

So I'm creating 2 more Maps for the car

EG
Map 1
Audiophile style profile optimized for drivers seat using Audio Frog house curve , time aligned to drivers seat.

MAP 2
Tune setup for having passengers front and rear using Harman / JBL house curve , time aligned to ear height between front seats

Map3
Tune based on Map1 , but with more sub bass from 15 - 80 hz , time aligned to drivers seat

Map4
Will use Jazzi2 house curve, but will use for experimenting.

[Onizukachan]

Nice to hear! I’m still a bit away from being ready to go mobridge in my e91, have to get CiC and combox retrofitted first.

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by Onizukachan

Nice to hear! I’m still a bit away from being ready to go mobridge in my e91, have to get CiC and combox retrofitted first.

Good to see you have another BMW.

Also been looking at a e90 sedan and moving on motorcycle and a project car for garage space. So being having a close look at how they are put togeather audio wise. Was thinking another Mobridge 8.1.1 running a 9 channel speaker factory setup and using an old Soundstream class d sub amp I have for trunk sub. And either mr12volt MMI or using the NBT4 / screen unit I have left over from my F80.

CCC is the later MOST unit with the hard drive ?

[Onizukachan]

Originally Posted by NealfromNZ

Good to see you have another BMW.

Also been looking at a e90 sedan and moving on motorcycle and a project car for garage space. So being having a close look at how they are put togeather audio wise. Was thinking another Mobridge 8.1.1 running a 9 channel speaker factory setup and using an old Soundstream class d sub amp I have for trunk sub. And either mr12volt MMI or using the NBT4 / screen unit I have left over from my F80.

CCC is the later MOST unit with the hard drive ?

CiC is the later unit with HDD, I have a 2006, so the very very first idrive, CCC where the nav runs off DVD.
My neighborhood amd most of my side of town don’t even exist on the final CCC disc released. That’s part of the reason I’m going to be converting to CIC.

Mine is an L7 which later was renamed to HK, and as you said it runs everything on MOST, so its either mobridge amp or stay stock. Or code HiFi and run twisted pairs from the quad lock to a rear match 10dsp or similars inputs.

Tourings are as always the odd balls and e91s have flat panel electrostat speakers for the far rear speakers located in the rear roof, but after changing from L7 aluminum coned speakers to the f30 hifi speakers in doors and center, and a bit of eq and forward fade, the L7 DSP is quite nicely set up as far as TA is concerned.

[NealfromNZ]

Nice ! Are you going trunk area sub or staying with Earthquake under seats ?

And did you finish your mini truck ?

[Onizukachan]

When time comes I’ll do the mobridge first, then see how I like the L7 underseats with some power… and probably then go SWS to start. Id love to do a single 18 sealed from 38ish down but I can’t dedicate the room to one permanently because I do use it as a DD/wagon,( fold seats to carry large items, etc etc) so I need it to play very very well without one at least down to 25ish amd I know the SWS will do so.

Part of the goal /fun/challenge on this one is to really keep it looking (other than the wheels) like it is bone stock since it is one of one.

I did finish all the interior and stereo on my crew cab dually, then honestly decided I’d be happier long term with a bmw wagon and sold it to get this one.

[m4shifter]

Originally Posted by Ajeje

dont need to recode, speaker are plug n play
front door speaker have the crossover.

power of match is ok for me, cant reach max volume, its so loud and i was amazed by the quality and deep bass of thw sws speakers.

the HK sound was cold. Voices, guitars, piano didn't had a real presence on front of you.
in other song, like the guns, or red hot c.p. drums or bass guitar if you wanted to listen these, you needed to bring up the volume but in fact you only feel some vibration on the seat and not a real midbass/bass sound.

now is completly different.
the feature of the match dsp are incredible. at min volume now i can hear a superbass, voice are incredible, guitars sound are superb

i put one of my favorite song (40fingers song Hotel california) 50/60% of volume and say wow...is another car

i dont now if the fal kit, es 100 k, are quality greater than the bmw/b&w original speaker but think that the difference are little in compare

Did you rewire the car? Even though B&W speakers are supposedly plug and play for cars with HK already the wirings are thicker in B&W setup for the woofers. Not sure if HK wiring can withstand the added power going to the underseat woofers?

[NealfromNZ]

BMW use 2.5mm2 wire on all underseat connections options from base audio , hifi , HK through to IA, B&O to B&W.

So good to 560 watts into a 2 ohm load and more as you go up in speaker ohms rating.

Handy calculator to check.


https://www.lautsprechershop.de/tools/t_kabel_en.htm

[m4shifter]

Would you still pick Morel underseat subs if you get to choose again? I just ordered the Lightwave amp and am looking to change the underseat subs only first before swapping out other speakers.

I've read through your thread multiple times and I figured I'm not going for an Earthquake one as it is not fully plug and play and I'm undecided between Morel, Audison or Focal for underseats.

[NealfromNZ]

It was the OEM supplier of Lightwave that put me onto the Morels as they ran the in an e92 and were impressed.

I narrowed my underseat choices down once I selected the Mobridge to drivers that could 150 rms. But also knew I’d be running a trunk sub that covered the lower parts of sub bass with abundance of power and authority. On the power alone I did eliminate the focals only because I didn’t want the risk of smoking them.

With the underseat woofers my final down selection was ESB , Morel and Stereo Integity TM8. Objective was modest priced components for a SQ system ( sound quality objective )

With ESB they were near impossible to import to New Zealand. The local Zapco / Esb importer just couldn’t get them at price that worked.

The Stereo Intergity TM8 looked like it wouldn’t drop in without either cutting the bottom of the BMW enclosure out or adding seat spacer washers due to depth of speaker and profits to rail height. But I’m still keen to use these in my wife’s suv doors.

Morels looked expensive to import, but ended up being landed for less than I estimated

As it turned out the morels worked
really well. I can get many of the benefits of the high car audio systems build that use a front sub with the morels so have them crossed at 45 hz.

Their strength is very articulate bass. Instruments such as double bass are well defined, snare drums have impact and larger drums go “bumpth” rather the “boom”. They can play well into sub bass regions. The can also play low enough to be used without a trunk sub with sub bass spl limits around the upper 112 db mark.

On the other popular / default underseat woofer choice on the f30 forum I was conversing with guy that has a high end BMW 1m build who had installed the and took them out. He described them a one note wonder.

Would I buy Morels again? Absoultey , I’m toying with selling a couple of vehicles and getting a e90 / e92 M3 and doing an another audio build. Would definitely put in Morel BMW 8 inch subs again. Would also consider the I/R BMW range for the doors. Would be interesting to compare with the es100ks I have.

If you go this way let me l know and I’ll give you my EQ settings for the Morels to try. The driver and passenger side needs different EQ in the Fseries to correct to a target curve. I think I did three basic corrects on each side. These don’t need much.

[NealfromNZ]

USB C charging/ idrive on F80.

Currently running an iPhone 13 with lightning connector. I’m using a slightly modded iPhone 6 snapin adapter for charging and boosted mobile reception. I find the snapin adapter gives about 1 bar more of reception which makes a difference on some of my incar work calls over MS teams.



With the snapin I never got usb / connected drive working as the usb pins got damaged when docking the snapin into its base plate so want to address this.



Thinking it’s time for a new iPhone and these are all USB C making the BMW snapin adapter obsolete. So thinking of modding it and replacing its dock connector with a usb C rather than replacing it with a universal USB snapin. prices for those aren’t great if you can still get them.

The G series BMW introduced USB C charging and idrive USB c inputs. Many of earlier G series ran IDrive 6 so from that I don’t think I’ll have any issues with USB connection. But more importantly it will charge at 15 watts / 3 amps. There are two variations of the adapter.

1, charge only



2, charge and Idrive USB




So I grabbed one off eBay with charging s and usb data / music / BMW connected drive.




Mounting point

I did try to see if I could mount it into back of armrest console. There is an area on each side for a light and I thought this might be an option. But the adapter is simply too deep and would need a lot of dremel work to cut the area behind it. But even then I think the usb connection at the back would be problematic.


So thinking I’ll mount it next to the existing USB / Aux . Currently that USB is occupied with 256 gig thumb drive of my old fashioned music collection.

[ATTACH][/ATTACH]

[m4shifter]

Originally Posted by NealfromNZ

It was the OEM supplier of Lightwave that put me onto the Morels as they ran the in an e92 and were impressed.

I narrowed my underseat choices down once I selected the Mobridge to drivers that could 150 rms. But also knew I’d be running a trunk sub that covered the lower parts of sub bass with abundance of power and authority. On the power alone I did eliminate the focals only because I didn’t want the risk of smoking them.

With the underseat woofers my final down selection was ESB , Morel and Stereo Integity TM8. Objective was modest priced components for a SQ system ( sound quality objective )

With ESB they were near impossible to import to New Zealand. The local Zapco / Esb importer just couldn’t get them at price that worked.

The Stereo Intergity TM8 looked like it wouldn’t drop in without either cutting the bottom of the BMW enclosure out or adding seat spacer washers due to depth of speaker and profits to rail height. But I’m still keen to use these in my wife’s suv doors.

Morels looked expensive to import, but ended up being landed for less than I estimated

As it turned out the morels worked
really well. I can get many of the benefits of the high car audio systems build that use a front sub with the morels so have them crossed at 45 hz.

Their strength is very articulate bass. Instruments such as double bass are well defined, snare drums have impact and larger drums go “bumpth” rather the “boom”. They can play well into sub bass regions. The can also play low enough to be used without a trunk sub with sub bass spl limits around the upper 112 db mark.

On the other popular / default underseat woofer choice on the f30 forum I was conversing with guy that has a high end BMW 1m build who had installed the and took them out. He described them a one note wonder.

Would I buy Morels again? Absoultey , I’m toying with selling a couple of vehicles and getting a e90 / e92 M3 and doing an another audio build. Would definitely put in Morel BMW 8 inch subs again. Would also consider the I/R BMW range for the doors. Would be interesting to compare with the es100ks I have.

If you go this way let me l know and I’ll give you my EQ settings for the Morels to try. The driver and passenger side needs different EQ in the Fseries to correct to a target curve. I think I did three basic corrects on each side. These don’t need much.

Thank you for the feedback!

I'm likely going down the Morel route but will install the amp alone first to feel the difference.

Separately, since you switched to B&W profile on ID6, I assume this will remove HK's vehicle speed dependent EQ? Per ISTA on HK:

"The volume of a set tone frequency range is increased in order to counteract noise caused by the vehicle acoustics when the vehicle is in motion. Adaptation is mainly performed in the low audio frequency range."

Believe the B&W profile includes a separate mic and adjust EQ based on cabin noise instead. I wonder in your case if both of the above will no longer work?

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by m4shifter

Thank you for the feedback!

I'm likely going down the Morel route but will install the amp alone first to feel the difference.

Separately, since you switched to B&W profile on ID6, I assume this will remove HK's vehicle speed dependent EQ? Per ISTA on HK:

"The volume of a set tone frequency range is increased in order to counteract noise caused by the vehicle acoustics when the vehicle is in motion. Adaptation is mainly performed in the low audio frequency range."

Believe the B&W profile includes a separate mic and adjust EQ based on cabin noise instead. I wonder in your case if both of the above will no longer work?

The tradeoff with coding going aftermarket is that speed independent EQ isn't currently a feature. I'm not sure how far the HK amp goes with this feature so unsure if it's just a "loudness" feature with a bit a based boost at low volumes. Personally I've tuned the EQ with the volume on the idrive at around 50% , but with running a trunk sub / morels the low end is there in a way the factory system won't do.

I do miss the speed adjustment volume a bit though. But would rather have the 4 DSP maps the Mobridge has via the IDrive. Note , this feature is still in beta testing so no doubt will end up in a future release.

You'll love the Morels if you go that way. Such nice sounding Bass units. Have mine crossed at 45 - 175 hz to meet the cabin drop of the trunk sub which starts happening at 50 hz.