F82 suspension options while keeping EDC?

[b5gt28rs]

My 2 second review of the Evolve x Bilstein B6 and Eibach V2 springs.. (photo just posted to the smoked topaz thread)

I really disliked the stock comp's handling of slow rebound dampening, with it not dampening enough. An example is cresting a small knoll, you could feel the car get light, and it wasn't 'planted'. I also disliked the ride height up front stock, the ratio of the small sidewall and giant fender gap made it look like a stock Honda with aftermarket rims.

My car is Dad's 'fast car', so I have two car seats in it 24/7. A full on race setup was out of the question, and I have a different car to scratch that itch. The ExB shocks retain EDC, and honestly ride like the M3 should have come from the factory. It's marginally stiffer, more composed, but doesn't jar your passengers around like a horse buggy. One side benefit of the Bilstein B6 is the starting pressure is greater than the OEM shocks, so lowering springs have a reduced effect on the ride height. Thus, the second gen Eibach springs weren't too low as many have complained.

There is part of me that wishes the whole setup was even more stiff, with more range from comfort to sport +. But I had a hard time finding stiffer springs that weren't going to give me too much drop, and per Evolve these have more range than the standard B6. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Is it sufficient for track days? Yes. Is it ideal? No.
Is it solid and compliant on the street? Absolutely.
Did my wife notice a difference? No.
Do I scrape? Nope, not yet.
Would I do it again? 100%

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by b5gt28rs

My 2 second review of the Evolve x Bilstein B6 and Eibach V2 springs.. (photo just posted to the smoked topaz thread)

I really disliked the stock comp's handling of slow rebound dampening, with it not dampening enough. An example is cresting a small knoll, you could feel the car get light, and it wasn't 'planted'. I also disliked the ride height up front stock, the ratio of the small sidewall and giant fender gap made it look like a stock Honda with aftermarket rims.

My car is Dad's 'fast car', so I have two car seats in it 24/7. A full on race setup was out of the question, and I have a different car to scratch that itch. The ExB shocks retain EDC, and honestly ride like the M3 should have come from the factory. It's marginally stiffer, more composed, but doesn't jar your passengers around like a horse buggy. One side benefit of the Bilstein B6 is the starting pressure is greater than the OEM shocks, so lowering springs have a reduced effect on the ride height. Thus, the second gen Eibach springs weren't too low as many have complained.

There is part of me that wishes the whole setup was even more stiff, with more range from comfort to sport +. But I had a hard time finding stiffer springs that weren't going to give me too much drop, and per Evolve these have more range than the standard B6. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Is it sufficient for track days? Yes. Is it ideal? No.
Is it solid and compliant on the street? Absolutely.
Did my wife notice a difference? No.
Do I scrape? Nope, not yet.
Would I do it again? 100%

Good to hear you’ve had a great experience with Evolve/Bilstein B6 damptronic. Did you reset the running time memory of EDC dampers which increases minimum damping as the time/mileage is increased to account for the loss of damping force output (decrease peak high voltage output = increase in minimum damping force) The Evolve/Bilstein EDC damping output may be higher than required if the damper reset wasn’t performed. This may further increase road quality and reduce harshness.

As for springs, I’d consider the Swift Spec R springs, if still available.

The gas pressure in a monotube is required to prevent cavitation (vacuum, no damping) from occurring during use. However, this gas pressure creates an undamped compressive force that must be exceeded before the piston rod starts to compress. Then means there are bumps/undulations in the road without piston bump motion. This also means there’s an undamped spring in parallel to the main spring which increases ride height by ~3/8-1/2”, depending on gas pressure charge. You don’t get the increased ride height for free Their B6 for the e9x M3 has a shorter damper length from the top of the strut body to the strut lower interface with the steering knuckle to minimize the loss of ride height. They’ve stated they are considering reducing the strut length on the f8x.

[b5gt28rs]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Good to hear you’ve had a great experience with Evolve/Bilstein B6 damptronic. Did you reset the running time memory of EDC dampers which increases minimum damping as the time/mileage is increased to account for the loss of damping force output (decrease peak high voltage output = increase in minimum damping force) The Evolve/Bilstein EDC damping output may be higher than required if the damper reset wasn’t performed. This may further increase road quality and reduce harshness.

As for springs, I’d consider the Swift Spec R springs, if still available.

The gas pressure in a monotube is required to prevent cavitation (vacuum, no damping) from occurring during use. However, this gas pressure creates an undamped compressive force that must be exceeded before the piston rod starts to compress. Then means there are bumps/undulations in the road without piston bump motion. This also means there’s an undamped spring in parallel to the main spring which increases ride height by ~3/8-1/2”, depending on gas pressure charge. You don’t get the increased ride height for free Their B6 for the e9x M3 has a shorter damper length from the top of the strut body to the strut lower interface with the steering knuckle to minimize the loss of ride height. They’ve stated they are considering reducing the strut length on the f8x.

I did not reset the EDC runtime. I heard contradictory information on if it was required.

The spec r springs were in consideration. I was worried the front drop would be too low. I've lived the too low life before, I didn't want the stress it adds dodging roadkill/driveways/speed bumps.

I've heard about the shorter shock, I think it's a different model (b8), but Bilstein didn't think it was necessary for the f80.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by b5gt28rs

I did not reset the EDC runtime. I heard contradictory information on if it was required.

The spec r springs were in consideration. I was worried the front drop would be too low. I've lived the too low life before, I didn't want the stress it adds dodging roadkill/driveways/speed bumps.

I've heard about the shorter shock, I think it's a different model (b8), but Bilstein didn't think it was necessary for the f80.

The run time absolutely does need to be reset. If I was running an aftermarket EDC setup, I’d reset the run time every 25k miles because it was designed to account for reduction of the aftermarket damper.

Evolve made their B6 shorter so it works better with a lowered car and, more importantly, to eliminate the increase in ride height due to gas pressure. In the m3post thread discussing Evolve/Bilstein e9x M3 B6, Evokve said they were considering redesigning the Evolve/Bilstein B6 f8x damper with the shorter damper body.

[RecentKetchup17]

I just switched over to the Bilstein B6, where can I reset the EDC runtime in ISTA?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by RecentKetchup17

I just switched over to the Bilstein B6, where can I reset the EDC runtime in ISTA?

Check the links in this post. The second link shows where to look for it under “shock absorber adjustment”. This is for e9x M3 but it should be the same thing for f8x.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=184

[RElias21]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Check the links in this post. The second link shows where to look for it under “shock absorber adjustment”. This is for e9x M3 but it should be the same thing for f8x.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=184

How does one even obtain ISTA? Is ISTA a free program?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by RElias21

How does one even obtain ISTA? Is ISTA a free program?

ista is BMW’s service software.

There’s a thread in the DIY section where you can request a download link of ista+ and/or esys and/or psdzdata.

Rheingold Also offers free downloads of the latest version of ista-d and other software.

[M3SQRD]

Here’s a review of the Nitron e-T R3 on a g82 CSL. There are others running the e-T R1 and e-T R3. The e-T Roadsport plug-n-play has also completed its fine tuning development on the f87.

Note: There are two versions of the e-T dampers. The versions developed by Nitron and the versions being further developed and fine tuned by OGSM and IL. The review below is for the Nitron e-T R3 version. The e-T Roadsport version referenced above is the OGSM & IL developed version. I would not over look the OGSM & IL e-T versions if you’re considering TracTive. Their e-T R3 and R1 versions are currently being developed and won’t be released until they satisfy their development requirements.

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2114650

[G30001]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Here’s a review of the Nitron e-T R3 on a g82 CSL. There are others running the e-T R1 and e-T R3. The e-T Roadsport plug-n-play has also completed its fine tuning development on the f87.

No links attached?

I would be keen to hear about Nitron ET R1 and Roadsport.

Despite the crap service I am swaying towards Tractiveas they fit my personal remit which is a fast road daily driver retaining EDC as my car will probably never see the track and if it does not having the best of the best setup won’t matter as it will be about exploring my cars limits and not chasing lap times (this happens I will get a dedicated track car)

Road compliance and EDC are the key requirements!

My ideal would be for comfort town driving, sport bumpy UK B road sport plus decent B road.

A point missed by many is B16 EDC is most of those who found them harsh had taken them to their lowest point, according to the guys at SWIFT in the UK setting them in the midrangeride height they are meant to be better.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by G30001

No links attached?

I would be keen to hear about Nitron ET R1 and Roadsport.

Despite the crap service I am swaying towards Tractiveas they fit my personal remit which is a fast road daily driver retaining EDC as my car will probably never see the track and if it does not having the best of the best setup won’t matter as it will be about exploring my cars limits and not chasing lap times (this happens I will get a dedicated track car)

Road compliance and EDC are the key requirements!

My ideal would be for comfort town driving, sport bumpy UK B road sport plus decent B road.

A point missed by many is B16 EDC is most of those who found them harsh had taken them to their lowest point, according to the guys at SWIFT in the UK this reduces their bandwidth. Setting them in the midrangeride height they are meant to be better.

Fixed

Not sure what happened. I remember creating the link.

A damper produces a damping force based on the pressure differential developed across the piston valve stack as a function of velocity and hydraulic fluid viscosity (pressure differential*piston valve stack area). Hydraulic fluid viscosity is a constant (it’s sensitive to temperature change). Mathematically, it’s Fdamp = cdot x velocity where cdot is the slope of the damper force-velocity curve and the velocity is the piston rod velocity relative to the damper body. The valve stack has no idea whether it’s one inch above or two inches below its theoretical equilibrium point (undisplaced). Lowering the car reduces the bump travel and bump stops are added to prevent the piston valve stack from bottoming out internally. Riding the bump stops increases the effective spring rate in a progressive manner. There is nothing on the piston valve stack to tell it where its relative position (displacement) is located within the damper body and the damping force itself is not a function of piston rod displacement. So how is the damping force supposed to change with relative displacement when the damping force is a function of relative velocity, not displacement?

[Matt@Evolve]

Originally Posted by G30001

No links attached?

I would be keen to hear about Nitron ET R1 and Roadsport.

Despite the crap service I am swaying towards Tractiveas they fit my personal remit which is a fast road daily driver retaining EDC as my car will probably never see the track and if it does not having the best of the best setup won’t matter as it will be about exploring my cars limits and not chasing lap times (this happens I will get a dedicated track car)

Road compliance and EDC are the key requirements!

My ideal would be for comfort town driving, sport bumpy UK B road sport plus decent B road.

A point missed by many is B16 EDC is most of those who found them harsh had taken them to their lowest point, according to the guys at SWIFT in the UK setting them in the midrangeride height they are meant to be better.

Your use case is exactly what we specced our B6 EDC dampers for, and you'd be more than welcome to come visit us and get a ride in my own car which now has them fitted

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Matt@Evolve

Your use case is exactly what we specced our B6 EDC dampers for, and you'd be more than welcome to come visit us and get a ride in my own car which now has them fitted

Do have any comfort or sport or sport+ base damping curves for your version of the B6 damptronic vs. Bilstein’s version of the B6 damptronic? Stating one has a generically lower damping (comfort) and another generically higher damping (sport+). Has low-speed and high-speed damping been altered or just low-speed damping or just high-speed damping?

Did you alter the rebound biased damping relationship (e.g., the rebound damping force is 3x higher than compression damping force at the same piston velocity)? Sometimes this relationship is not well designed and results in poor ride quality.

This information is important because the E/B B6 is being paired with any set of lowering springs, with MSS HAS being recommended by Evolve, which can have a wide range of spring rates especially with the rear (~500-800 lbf/in). MSS doesn’t provide spring rates, because they have a tri-rate spring rates which is easily replicated, so no assessments can be made unless they’ve been installed and, at best, that’s a qualitative assessment post install.

[noemon]

Originally Posted by G30001

No links attached?

I would be keen to hear about Nitron ET R1 and Roadsport.

Despite the crap service I am swaying towards Tractiveas they fit my personal remit which is a fast road daily driver retaining EDC as my car will probably never see the track and if it does not having the best of the best setup won’t matter as it will be about exploring my cars limits and not chasing lap times (this happens I will get a dedicated track car)

Road compliance and EDC are the key requirements!

My ideal would be for comfort town driving, sport bumpy UK B road sport plus decent B road.

A point missed by many is B16 EDC is most of those who found them harsh had taken them to their lowest point, according to the guys at SWIFT in the UK setting them in the midrangeride height they are meant to be better.

UK Roads need some special sauce Graham mate. As you know I had issues with Tractive service, I have been open about them, but I still recommend it and I am keeping it myself when I could have sold it to you months ago. This is quite evident that I am particularly happy with this suspension and have always been.

In other news, Ian the mod permanently banned me from cutters cause I called out the people who were defending the racist hooligans beating people of colour on the streets for a month as "people with valid concerns". He never gave a proper reason(he accused me that I called people "racist" even though I never called anyone specifically racist. I asked him to quote my post and he banned me for asking him for evidence of "insulting people by calling them racist").

I did indeed say that anyone who defends the racist hooligans on our streets is a racist themselves. This was a step too far when over half of that forum is composed of shameless racists; while Smuler the 'Lead Racist Defender' replied to my post while knowing I cannot reply back. Pretty pathetic people in there.

@M3QRSD dude, your entire post is as ridiculous as the previous one.
You spoke to some salesmen and now here you are pushing marketing for companies you have never even tried!!!!!!! and aggressively too.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by noemon

UK Roads need some special sauce Graham mate. As you know I had issues with Tractive service, I have been open about them, but I still recommend it and I am keeping it myself when I could have sold it to you months ago. This is quite evident that I am particularly happy with this suspension and have always been.

In other news, Ian the mod permanently banned me from cutters cause I called out the people who were defending the racist hooligans beating people of colour on the streets for a month as "people with valid concerns". He never gave a proper reason(he accused me that I called people "racist" even though I never called anyone specifically racist. I asked him to quote my post and he banned me for asking him for evidence of "insulting people by calling them racist").

I did indeed say that anyone who defends the racist hooligans on our streets is a racist themselves. This was a step too far when over half of that forum is composed of shameless racists; while Smuler the 'Lead Racist Defender' replied to my post while knowing I cannot reply back. Pretty pathetic people in there.

@M3QRSD dude, your entire post is as ridiculous as the previous one.
You spoke to some salesmen and now here you are pushing marketing for companies you have never even tried!!!!!!! and aggressively too.

I have no idea what posts you’re referring to and I honestly don’t care. What two companies am I pushing? If it’s Nitron, it definitely wasn’t information from a salesperson. Nitron is the only one I’ve said I haven’t tested/owned. You don’t need to own brand X to have driven/tracked said brand. I’m still waiting on your technical information/documentation showing Nitron still uses suspension technology from the 1960s. This sounds like a sales pitch, including the statement that a company without filed patents = garbage, that came from a salesperson. Based on your vast experience with all of the other brands available for the f8x, you’ve stated nothing else comes close to your two setups yet your database is limited to two data points. It must’ve been exhaustive trying to decide which two of all of the suspension setups you’ve tried were the best two setups. Did you flip a coin?

[G30001]

Originally Posted by noemon

UK Roads need some special sauce Graham mate. As you know I had issues with Tractive service, I have been open about them, but I still recommend it and I am keeping it myself when I could have sold it to you months ago. This is quite evident that I am particularly happy with this suspension and have always been.

In other news, Ian the mod permanently banned me from cutters cause I called out the people who were defending the racist hooligans beating people of colour on the streets for a month as "people with valid concerns". He never gave a proper reason(he accused me that I called people "racist" even though I never called anyone specifically racist. I asked him to quote my post and he banned me for asking him for evidence of "insulting people by calling them racist").

I did indeed say that anyone who defends the racist hooligans on our streets is a racist themselves. This was a step too far when over half of that forum is composed of shameless racists; while Smuler the 'Lead Racist Defender' replied to my post while knowing I cannot reply back. Pretty pathetic people in there.

@M3QRSD dude, your entire post is as ridiculous as the previous one.
You spoke to some salesmen and now here you are pushing marketing for companies you have never even tried!!!!!!! and aggressively too.

Oh dear I missed all that, tend to avoid those types of threads as it never ends well, now get why you hadn’t replied to my recent PM.

I have emailed Tractive to see if I can send them direct to the factory for service, if so will be the decision maker for me.

Will keep you posted!

[G30001]

Originally Posted by Matt@Evolve

Your use case is exactly what we specced our B6 EDC dampers for, and you'd be more than welcome to come visit us and get a ride in my own car which now has them fitted

I have a track day at Driftlimits which is only 40 mins from you so would be rude not to really.

Will book it tomorrow and give a shout to arrange.

[noemon]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I have no idea what posts you’re referring to and I honestly don’t care. What two companies am I pushing? If it’s Nitron, it definitely wasn’t information from a salesperson. Nitron is the only one I’ve said I haven’t tested/owned. You don’t need to own brand X to have driven/tracked said brand. I’m still waiting on your technical information/documentation showing Nitron still uses suspension technology from the 1960s. This sounds like a sales pitch, including the statement that a company without filed patents = garbage, that came from a salesperson. Based on your vast experience with all of the other brands available for the f8x, you’ve stated nothing else comes close to your two setups yet your database is limited to two data points. It must’ve been exhaustive trying to decide which two of all of the suspension setups you’ve tried were the best two setups. Did you flip a coin?

My database is not limited to 2 data points. Have tried many suspension setups and have talked about them several times with you too. In my own current car I've had, BC Racing, Tractive, Intrax and stock. And have ridden, KW's, Nitrons in previous and other cars. BC Racing as I've told you before is a great budget system with external reservoirs and pretty good damping range.

If you did have an idea of what you wrote in that septic tank of a reply of yours, you would have apologised already.

You heard over the phone by the "technical sales" department of a standalone electronic system that has not even been released yet and you are aggressively certain it beats established electronic module systems that predate it by plently of years cause you had a chat with a rep! Kewl stuff.

In actual fact you are the one with with zero data points of all the relevant suspension systems you are comparing and arguing with me about(Intrax, Tractive, Nitron).

I have though tried all the data points I am talking about, while you on the other hand, admittedly haven't got a single clue! Both literally and figuratively.

[Matt@Evolve]

Originally Posted by G30001

I have a track day at Driftworks which is only 40 mins from you so would be rude not to really.

Will book it tomorrow and give a shout to arrange.

Drop me a PM, we're based in LU3 3HP.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by noemon

My database is not limited to 2 data points. Have tried many suspension setups and have talked about them several times with you too. In my own current car I've had, BC Racing, Tractive, Intrax and stock. And have ridden, KW's, Nitrons in previous and other cars. BC Racing as I've told you before is a great budget system with external reservoirs and pretty good damping range.

If you did have an idea of what you wrote in that septic tank of a reply of yours, you would have apologised already.

You heard over the phone by the "technical sales" department of a standalone electronic system that has not even been released yet and you are aggressively certain it beats established electronic module systems that predate it by plently of years cause you had a chat with a rep! Kewl stuff.

In actual fact you are the one with with zero data points of all the relevant suspension systems you are comparing and arguing with me about(Intrax, Tractive, Nitron).

I have though tried all the data points I am talking about, while you on the other hand, admittedly haven't got a single clue! Both literally and figuratively.

I’m clueless? We have never discussed BC Racing products. BC Racing dampers are absolute junk even for an entry level setup. It’s designed for the stance crowd that wants to lower their car 4”.

Apologize? For what?

I’ve talked to the people developing the e-T R1 and R3. Neither one is a “technical” salesperson, let alone a salesperson. They have been released and people are using them. They are available for purchase.

The point I’ve been trying to get across is Intrax and TracTive are not necessarily the best of all possible suspension options on the market, perhaps in your opinion, and if you believe that then you are naive. I’ve always said they are high-end setups, just not better, or worse, than other available options. Have you tried JRZ, Moton, MCS, Penske, Ohlins, Quantum, etc. suspension setups? Yet you state the entry-level Intrax and TracTive setups are better than all of the other high-end options on the market for the f8x. You have no idea how many different manufacturers I have tried/tested. Notice your hypocrisy?

I’m the one with zero data points? Ok, sure You are entitled to your uninformed opinion. Thanks for the kind words. Perhaps you’ll get a clue around the same time you can prove Nitron uses 1960s damper technology in their current line of dampers.

[noemon]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I’m clueless? We have never discussed BC Racing products. BC Racing dampers are absolute junk even for an entry level setup. It’s designed for the stance crowd that wants to lower their car 4”.

Apologize? For what?

You 're admitedly clueless, evidently forgetful and clearly biased towards products you have never actually tried. You should not be trash-talking companies you know nothing about.

I’ve talked to the people developing the e-T R1 and R3. Neither one is a “technical” salesperson, let alone a salesperson. They have been released and people are using them. They are available for purchase.

You 've talked to a sales person and nobody cares. I have not seen anyone with e-tron suspension and the same person you spoke to I have also spoken to recently along with many others enquiring about the e-tron, up until April I last spoke to them they were not available and were still ironing out the electronics.

The point I’ve been trying to get across is Intrax and TracTive are not necessarily the best of all possible suspension options on the market, perhaps in your opinion, and if you believe that then you are naive. I’ve always said they are high-end setups, just not better, or worse, than other available options. Have you tried JRZ, Moton, MCS, Penske, Ohlins, Quantum, etc. suspension setups? Yet you state the entry-level Intrax and TracTive setups are better than all of the other high-end options on the market for the f8x. You have no idea how many different manufacturers I have tried/tested. Notice your hypocrisy?

I’m the one with zero data points? Ok, sure You are entitled to your uninformed opinion. Thanks for the kind words. Perhaps you’ll get a clue around the same time you can prove Nitron uses 1960s damper technology in their current line of dampers.

Absolutely, you have zero data points as NONE of these systems offer EDC and this thread is about EDC but because you consider yourself something special you believe the rest of us have an obligation to listen to your cluelesness about suspension systems that you have NEVER driven.

You have not driven Tractive, Intrax or Nitron by your own admission.

Yet you have a very strong opinion that Nitron Electronics(yet to be seen) beats the crap out of both Tractive's and Intrax's Electronics(been around as patents since their inception) because you spoke to a person at Nitron. Raaaait.

I find your egoistic rants calling people "poor" compared to you quite amusing at this point, evidently you find nothing wrong with that.

[RElias21]

Gentlemen, I’m sure you both realize that this is not the appropriate venue for these back and forth rants. This forum provides us with the platform to offer respective input, and readers ultimately come to their own conclusions accordingly.

You guys are also clearly not going to come to an agreement here. Should you wish to further this heated debate, may I respectfully recommend you DM, exchange numbers, emails, MySpace accounts…something a bit more private.