F80 M3 / F82 M4 Piggyback Tune Summary Table

pigwet · 02-04-2015, 10:41 AM

Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

*TABLE*

Help complete the table!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

*SUMMARY*

Tunes that only access MAP/TMAP sensors (BMS Stage 1, BMS JB4 set to MAP 1)
--the simplest approach
--without access to RPM, it can only supply a constant increase in added boost for all RPM, in this case +4psi
--the car will get cranky at some added boost level (greater than +4psi or so = +40-50 whp) and the HP gains are limited by this

Another group that accesses MAP/TMAP/CAMSHAFT (Vivid, Turner, Tuning Tech, Active Autowerkes)
--access to RPM through CAMSHAFT gives ability to adjust boost with RPM

Another group that accesses MAP/TMAP/CAMSHAFT/MAF (DTE/ESS/ & maybe Velos)
--access to RPM through CAMSHAFT gives ability to adjust boost with RPM
--the MAF gives them the ability to avoid some potential codes a higher boost levels
--the MAF also reportedly gives the ability to improve shifting smoothness

One tune that accesses MAP/TMAP/Fuel Mass/Wastegate and CANbus (BMS JB4)
--this gives access to all of the above and much more
--enables ability to do fancy things like switch maps from steering wheel and open exhaust valves
--enables data logging capabilities
--enables much higher power tunes/mods including methanol and larger turbos
--includes a code reader & clearer
--the 1st map is very simple additive +4psi map and does not require connecting to CANbus (called STAGE 1)
--the 2nd and 3rd maps are still additive maps but +psi varies with RPM, requiring connecting to CANbus (called STAGE 2)
--the 4th map is for diagnostics
--the higher maps are riskier absolute (not additive) maps meant for higher octane fuels, larger turbos, etc. (called STAGE 3)
--the higher maps may require connection to wastegate and fuel mass sensors

And finally the DINAN
--rather than plugging into individual sensors, it plugs directly into the MDE/ECU which is below and in front of the intercooler
--only 14 or so wires are intercepted, so not all wires going into ECU are addressed as stated in their videos
--not clear how this approach differs from BMS, but it is more difficult to install and only a qualified installer/dealer can do it
--comes w/o firmware loaded, adding time to installation

From what I gather, the BMS JB4 offers everything the DINAN may someday offer for the F80/F82 - but currently the JB4 offers significantly more tuning and data logging options than any other tune.

Roadkiller · 02-04-2015, 12:08 PM

I'm on my iPhone so it's hard to review. But I didn't see the autowerkes active-8 listed. They have a thread in the tune section.

eunosracr · 02-04-2015, 04:27 PM

Nice work. I would add "claimed gains".

CSanto · 02-04-2015, 05:06 PM

Very interesting stuff. Thank you!

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 02-04-2015, 05:55 PM

CAM angle and RPM are the same sensor. Which can be read via the CAM sensor or more directly via the CANbus. With CANbus any sensor or signal in the vehicle can be read. Which is why the JB4 can have in dash controls, exhaust flapper control, read/delete faults from any module on the vehicle, etc.

Your sheet is missing fuel mass which is a critical one. The JB4 includes it. It's also missing RS232/USB which is important for firmware updates at home, data logging, etc. The JB4 and Stage1 both include that. The JB4 also includes EWG. The JB4 and Stage1 do not read MAF. Stage1 doesn't require it and the JB4 alters that signal via the CANbus. The only piggyback connecting to MAF I've seen is ESS. The rest of them take TMAP, MAP, and RPM only.

Also, regarding Dinan, I'm not sure it actually has CANbus or EWG control. A lot of claims are made but someone would need to independently verify it by examining the harness.

BMS warranties their tuners for 12 months.

Mike

///M.Tonee · 02-04-2015, 06:00 PM

been looking for something like this to pop up...thanks!

looks like the only piggy back that can clear CEL from DP is the JB4 or the macht Schnell module

apexit · 02-04-2015, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

CAM angle and RPM are the same sensor. Which can be read via the CAM sensor or more directly via the CANbus. With CANbus any sensor or signal in the vehicle can be read. Which is why the JB4 can have in dash controls, exhaust flapper control, read/delete faults from any module on the vehicle, etc.

Your sheet is missing fuel mass which is a critical one. The JB4 includes it. It's also missing RS232/USB which is important for firmware updates at home, data logging, etc. The JB4 and Stage1 both include that. The JB4 also includes EWG. The JB4 and Stage1 do not read MAF. Stage1 doesn't require it and the JB4 alters that signal via the CANbus. The only piggyback connecting to MAF I've seen is ESS. The rest of them take TMAP, MAP, and RPM only.

Also, regarding Dinan, I'm not sure it actually has CANbus or EWG control. A lot of claims are made but someone would need to independently verify it by examining the harness.

BMS warranties their tuners for 12 months.

Mike

What does the warranty cover?

AutoTalent · 02-04-2015, 06:19 PM

We are installing 2 different piggyback tunes here tomorrow and immediately strapping the cars to our dyno. Will post all results shortly

pigwet · 02-04-2015, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

CAM angle and RPM are the same sensor. Which can be read via the CAM sensor or more directly via the CANbus. With CANbus any sensor or signal in the vehicle can be read. Which is why the JB4 can have in dash controls, exhaust flapper control, read/delete faults from any module on the vehicle, etc.

Your sheet is missing fuel mass which is a critical one. The JB4 includes it. It's also missing RS232/USB which is important for firmware updates at home, data logging, etc. The JB4 and Stage1 both include that. The JB4 also includes EWG. The JB4 and Stage1 do not read MAF. Stage1 doesn't require it and the JB4 alters that signal via the CANbus. The only piggyback connecting to MAF I've seen is ESS. The rest of them take TMAP, MAP, and RPM only.

Also, regarding Dinan, I'm not sure it actually has CANbus or EWG control. A lot of claims are made but someone would need to independently verify it by examining the harness.

BMS warranties their tuners for 12 months.

Mike

Thank you Mike! I was hoping people who know what they are talking about would comment on the thread. I'll update everything soon.

pigwet · 02-05-2015, 08:43 AM

1) The boost pressure sensor that Active/Turner refer to - do others use this too?

2) Are Active Autowerkes and Turner Motorsport are same product? Same housing? Looking at the installation instructions, they display the same images and they even show a (black) ECU with the same serial number. One is $500 more.

http://images.activeautowerke.com/In...55-F80M4M3.pdf

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/imag..._M3_F82_M4.pdf

pigwet · 02-05-2015, 09:12 AM

I'm interested in the ability of these tunes to work as designed at high altitudes. There appears to be a difference between MAF & MAP based versus MAP only tunes according to discussions here: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=224799

Comments?

Roadkiller · 02-05-2015, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigwet

1) The boost pressure sensor that Active/Turner refer to - do others use this too?

2) Are Active Autowerkes and Turner Motorsport are same product? Same housing? Looking at the installation instructions, they display the same images and they even show a (black) ECU with the same serial number. One is $500 more.

http://images.activeautowerke.com/In...55-F80M4M3.pdf

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/imag..._M3_F82_M4.pdf

Hmmmm, you might be right on the Active/Turner products. The literature shows the two products are the same – with one costing $500 more. Never noticed this before.

As for the table, you show ESS S55 gaining 550HP/560Tq – not sure that is accurate but perhaps Roman can confirm. Feel free to use this info to update your blank cells.

ESS - “Stage 1 is designed for pump fuel and adds + 60-70 CHP / 60-70 TQ over stock depending on fuel quality. Testing was done on a 100% stock M4 running 91 octane fuel.”

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1046287

Dinan – “Stage 1 (DINANTRONICS™ Performance Tuner ONLY) Maximum Power: 516 HP, 489 lb-ft of torque.”

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1036115

TruthGuY · 02-05-2015, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoTalent

We are installing 2 different piggyback tunes here tomorrow and immediately strapping the cars to our dyno. Will post all results shortly

Which 2?? Waiting on results

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 02-05-2015, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigwet

I'm interested in the ability of these tunes to work as designed at high altitudes. There appears to be a difference between MAF & MAP based versus MAP only tunes according to discussions here: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=224799

Comments?

MAF is only used as a cross reference to load. Load is based on boost pressure, baro, and IAT, among a few other minor factors. If MAF exceeds the load values then a hidden plausibility code is triggered. Your options to work around this are to intercept or alter MAF as ESS and Dinan do, or alter them using CANbus logic as the JB4 does. Without CANbus or MAF connections you will trigger a hidden code eventually above around 50whp.

I can't stress enough how important the fuel mass connector is to tuning these vehicles at higher power levels. I'm really shocked that it appears only Dinan and JB4 offer it.

Mike

AutoTalent · 02-05-2015, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthGuY

Which 2?? Waiting on results

Velos and AA. Velos is strapped to our dyno as I type this

Edit: Here it is: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...8#post17351658

shortseller · 02-05-2015, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

MAF is only used as a cross reference to load. Load is based on boost pressure, baro, and IAT, among a few other minor factors. If MAF exceeds the load values then a hidden plausibility code is triggered. Your options to work around this are to intercept or alter MAF as ESS and Dinan do, or alter them using CANbus logic as the JB4 does. Without CANbus or MAF connections you will trigger a hidden code eventually above around 50whp.

I can't stress enough how important the fuel mass connector is to tuning these vehicles at higher power levels. I'm really shocked that it appears only Dinan and JB4 offer it.

Mike

Dinan, Dinan, Dinan.

MWcoupe · 02-05-2015, 06:21 PM

i feel like back then (audi flash tune/piggyback) always mention how much boost is increased. doesnt seem to be the case anymore with these tunes huh. anyone know how much boost is increased on jb4?

SflBimmer8484 · 02-05-2015, 09:12 PM

Op,

Some things to add.

1.Our money back guarantee is 30days. As with all of our products the warranty is 2 years unlimited miles.
2. Module has 9 different map settings. Default boost set to 21psi
3.Our piggy back loaded with an in house created tune not generic.

pigwet · 02-06-2015, 08:47 AM

Thanks for all the help so far. Hope Roman@ESS & Dinan_Engineering chime in here.

ASAP · 02-06-2015, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

MAF is only used as a cross reference to load. Load is based on boost pressure, baro, and IAT, among a few other minor factors. If MAF exceeds the load values then a hidden plausibility code is triggered. Your options to work around this are to intercept or alter MAF as ESS and Dinan do, or alter them using CANbus logic as the JB4 does. Without CANbus or MAF connections you will trigger a hidden code eventually above around 50whp.

I can't stress enough how important the fuel mass connector is to tuning these vehicles at higher power levels. I'm really shocked that it appears only Dinan and JB4 offer it.

Mike

How does the JB4 on the F80 scale / bias fuel? I am going to guess it can't because the fuel tables are written and once you encroach the threshold of the fuel trims, it goes lean.

M3816 · 02-06-2015, 09:15 AM

Now that's real contribution.

dmboone25 · 02-06-2015, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apexit

What does the warranty cover?

The unit itself and nothing else is my guess.

02-04-2015, 10:41 AM	#1
pigwet Private First Class 117 Rep 105 Posts Drives: MW F80, CP, DCT Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Desert Southwest iTrader: (1)	F80 M3 / F82 M4 Piggyback Tune Summary Table Featured on BIMMERPOST.com *TABLE* Help complete the table! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing *SUMMARY* Tunes that only access MAP/TMAP sensors (BMS Stage 1, BMS JB4 set to MAP 1) --the simplest approach --without access to RPM, it can only supply a constant increase in added boost for all RPM, in this case +4psi --the car will get cranky at some added boost level (greater than +4psi or so = +40-50 whp) and the HP gains are limited by this Another group that accesses MAP/TMAP/CAMSHAFT (Vivid, Turner, Tuning Tech, Active Autowerkes) --access to RPM through CAMSHAFT gives ability to adjust boost with RPM Another group that accesses MAP/TMAP/CAMSHAFT/MAF (DTE/ESS/ & maybe Velos) --access to RPM through CAMSHAFT gives ability to adjust boost with RPM --the MAF gives them the ability to avoid some potential codes a higher boost levels --the MAF also reportedly gives the ability to improve shifting smoothness One tune that accesses MAP/TMAP/Fuel Mass/Wastegate and CANbus (BMS JB4) --this gives access to all of the above and much more --enables ability to do fancy things like switch maps from steering wheel and open exhaust valves --enables data logging capabilities --enables much higher power tunes/mods including methanol and larger turbos --includes a code reader & clearer --the 1st map is very simple additive +4psi map and does not require connecting to CANbus (called STAGE 1) --the 2nd and 3rd maps are still additive maps but +psi varies with RPM, requiring connecting to CANbus (called STAGE 2) --the 4th map is for diagnostics --the higher maps are riskier absolute (not additive) maps meant for higher octane fuels, larger turbos, etc. (called STAGE 3) --the higher maps may require connection to wastegate and fuel mass sensors And finally the DINAN --rather than plugging into individual sensors, it plugs directly into the MDE/ECU which is below and in front of the intercooler --only 14 or so wires are intercepted, so not all wires going into ECU are addressed as stated in their videos --not clear how this approach differs from BMS, but it is more difficult to install and only a qualified installer/dealer can do it --comes w/o firmware loaded, adding time to installation From what I gather, the BMS JB4 offers everything the DINAN may someday offer for the F80/F82 - but currently the JB4 offers significantly more tuning and data logging options than any other tune. *ORIGINAL* I'm trying to better understand piggybacks and the different signals they adjust. For example, Dinan speaks a lot about adjusting the waste gate and sluggishness during gear shifts whereas others do not. ESS uses the MAF whereas others do not. In particular, I'm interested in the ability of these tunes to work as designed at high altitudes. There appears to be a difference between MAF & MAP based versus MAP only tunes according to discussions here: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=224799 I'm compiling a summary table and would appreciate it if you can check for accuracy in each product & column. If a column should be added, please suggest it. As always, please reference your input with a link to the manufacturers website, manufacturers thread, or manufacturers instructions/image/PDF etc. Thanks! RELATED POSTS http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1046287 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1069270 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1096016 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1091288 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1087101 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1091346 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1088789 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1088803 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1091956 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1083894 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1077691 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1082637 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1083251 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1036115 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1042528 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1073275 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1081933 Last edited by pigwet; 03-11-2015 at 05:09 AM..
	Appreciate 14 M2Crew221.50 hoobawhat?6.00 Tweet Quote

02-04-2015, 12:08 PM	#2
Roadkiller Philosophiae Doctor 210 Rep 873 Posts Drives: 2015 M4 BSM Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: In front of you! iTrader: (0)	I'm on my iPhone so it's hard to review. But I didn't see the autowerkes active-8 listed. They have a thread in the tune section.
	Appreciate 1 TommyLights216.50 Quote

02-04-2015, 04:27 PM	#3
eunosracr Colonel 159 Rep 2,231 Posts Drives: a car Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: here iTrader: (4)	Nice work. I would add "claimed gains".
	Appreciate 1 Quote

02-04-2015, 05:06 PM	#4
CSanto Brigadier General 641 Rep 3,039 Posts Drives: 2015 BSM/SO M3 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New York iTrader: (3)	Very interesting stuff. Thank you!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-04-2015, 05:55 PM	#5
Mike@N54Tuning.com Joint Chiefs of Staff 4979 Rep 116,100 Posts Drives: 2007 335i, 2015 M3 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: N54tuning.com iTrader: (89)	CAM angle and RPM are the same sensor. Which can be read via the CAM sensor or more directly via the CANbus. With CANbus any sensor or signal in the vehicle can be read. Which is why the JB4 can have in dash controls, exhaust flapper control, read/delete faults from any module on the vehicle, etc. Your sheet is missing fuel mass which is a critical one. The JB4 includes it. It's also missing RS232/USB which is important for firmware updates at home, data logging, etc. The JB4 and Stage1 both include that. The JB4 also includes EWG. The JB4 and Stage1 do not read MAF. Stage1 doesn't require it and the JB4 alters that signal via the CANbus. The only piggyback connecting to MAF I've seen is ESS. The rest of them take TMAP, MAP, and RPM only. Also, regarding Dinan, I'm not sure it actually has CANbus or EWG control. A lot of claims are made but someone would need to independently verify it by examining the harness. BMS warranties their tuners for 12 months. Mike
	Appreciate 3 johnbenedict32.00 Quote

02-04-2015, 06:00 PM	#6
///M.Tonee Captain 316 Rep 645 Posts Drives: Porsche 991.1 GT3 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (0)	been looking for something like this to pop up...thanks! looks like the only piggy back that can clear CEL from DP is the JB4 or the macht Schnell module
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-04-2015, 06:19 PM	#8
AutoTalent Lieutenant General 2348 Rep 12,905 Posts Drives: e92 M3 6mt \| e60 M5 6mt Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (11)	We are installing 2 different piggyback tunes here tomorrow and immediately strapping the cars to our dyno. Will post all results shortly
	Appreciate 1 Quote

02-05-2015, 08:43 AM	#10
pigwet Private First Class 117 Rep 105 Posts Drives: MW F80, CP, DCT Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Desert Southwest iTrader: (1)	1) The boost pressure sensor that Active/Turner refer to - do others use this too? 2) Are Active Autowerkes and Turner Motorsport are same product? Same housing? Looking at the installation instructions, they display the same images and they even show a (black) ECU with the same serial number. One is $500 more. http://images.activeautowerke.com/In...55-F80M4M3.pdf http://www.turnermotorsport.com/imag..._M3_F82_M4.pdf
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-05-2015, 09:12 AM	#11
pigwet Private First Class 117 Rep 105 Posts Drives: MW F80, CP, DCT Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Desert Southwest iTrader: (1)	I'm interested in the ability of these tunes to work as designed at high altitudes. There appears to be a difference between MAF & MAP based versus MAP only tunes according to discussions here: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=224799 Comments?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-05-2015, 06:21 PM	#17
MWcoupe 24k GOLD 146 Rep 1,452 Posts Drives: Mineral White M4 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: BROOKLYN NY iTrader: (0)	i feel like back then (audi flash tune/piggyback) always mention how much boost is increased. doesnt seem to be the case anymore with these tunes huh. anyone know how much boost is increased on jb4?
	Appreciate 1 Quote

02-05-2015, 09:12 PM	#18
SflBimmer8484 Brigadier General 1471 Rep 3,158 Posts Drives: . Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Florida iTrader: (5)	Op, Some things to add. 1.Our money back guarantee is 30days. As with all of our products the warranty is 2 years unlimited miles. 2. Module has 9 different map settings. Default boost set to 21psi 3.Our piggy back loaded with an in house created tune not generic.
	Appreciate 1 Quote

02-06-2015, 08:47 AM	#19
pigwet Private First Class 117 Rep 105 Posts Drives: MW F80, CP, DCT Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Desert Southwest iTrader: (1)	Thanks for all the help so far. Hope Roman@ESS & Dinan_Engineering chime in here.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-06-2015, 09:15 AM	#21
M3816 Banned 29 Rep 67 Posts Drives: BMW M2 Join Date: May 2010 Location: No.va iTrader: (0)	Now that's real contribution.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search