Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[FormulaMMM]

Overall very encouraged by the driving reviews and impressions. It really doesn’t seem dull, like a mini-F90, that was my main concern.

Apparently achieves substantial gains in rear traction. Harris driving for days thinking it was an awd version, not possible in an F8X.

That would seem to open up options for the CS/CSL. I had assumed awd for sure, M xDrive as a necessary performance asset, but maybe they can skip that and the added weight after all. GTS had me convinced they’d just about reached the limitation of rwd M traction, guess not.

Catchpole indicated 1725 kg / 3802 lbs. CS/CSL into the 37XX lb. range. That’s workable.

Cornering, drifting, drone perspective, ground level, I can’t come around on the looks. Design corrupting what is clearly an engineering achievement. How stupid.

[deeldoo]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

YEAH. IT WAS. at least the OG F8x was.

My 2015 was a twitchy bitch, but my 2018 Comp was WAAAyyy wussified even though I was a faster driver in it. The OG F8x is the only vehicle I've lost full control of since I was a teenager ... I called it an axe murderer because I honestly didn't know where the line was; I couldn't walk it ... I'm sure some could, but most either couldn't, don't know what that means, or are lying.

The OG F8x was a battle axe and I liked it more than my 2018 comp (but I liked the E9x the best)

And I'm sure I don't need to remind anyone of the infamous

Ahaha exactly that, i have the 2016 F82 which is pre update as well.

I unfortunately already sent mine into a spin before but now i learned my lesson.

BMW made something crazy with the early year ones and did fix and flatten that torque curve for later years to keep people from losing control.

The F8X especially early year ones were definitely filled with an angry personality which is what i love.

It may not be what's considered "raw" as in connected, even though i disagree, as far as modern cars go it is exceptionally raw. But it definitely has a personality, and i would say that personality for the average driver (not professional) is an angry, mean, and violent one.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

While I'm not in that group, I think the embargo was pretty dumb. The reviews are positive.

Sure if you only care about driving and not how it looks.

TH for example - "good, good, good, no I wouldnt buy it cause of looks"

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

LOL I thought I was the only one that had to deal with this. My 13 year old daughter does not like it when I take her to school or pick her up in the F80. She pleads with me to close the valves and not rev it up too fast. She doesn't want the other parents/students to think we are a crazy family that drives loud and fast cars hahaha. My wife hates it too. She says it stresses her out and makes her want to vomit lol. I'm just like HELL YEAH this thing is fun

this exact scenario happened to me last week ... I was like kid you gotta live a little

[Mavus]

What I got from reviews is it's a capable sedated car that is in a different segment based on the size.

Marketing dept designed it and leftover M engineers did the best they could with what they were given. Notice CH said "whoever is left at M" alluding to past M eng that left the co.

The only config to lease in a year or so when there are discounts is all black manual and probably ceramics.

[swagon]

As time passes and new generations go on sale, we start viewing their predecessors from a point of view of that new, shiny car. That's when the old car, which may have been deemed as boring or sterile at the time, now seems wilder or more fun.

The R35 GT-R, a car that was back in 2007 perceived as an immensely capable but sterile PlayStation on four wheels, is seen by some now as a quite raw and fun dinosaur. It's been fiddled with, made faster but softer over the years, though, it's a clunky boi that gives you loads of oversteer and mega traction in one package.

I think the F80 is following the same pattern in the sense that BMW had made subtle yet noticeable changes over the course of its production cycle, culminating in the form of the M3/M4 CS.

As mentioned above, the early cars were for a lot of customers and journalists too wild or unpredictable. It's even obvious from the UK G8x reviews; Harris loves the F80's crazy side, Prosser and Catchpole still probably have got PTSD from a 2014 DCT car biting their arse in the Scottish countryside. Well, yeah, it doesn't behave like a slushbox if you stick it in S3 on a damp road. And mid-corner weight balance changes in a manual car, too.

In my opinion, an increasing number of people are more in love with the idea of a sports car than actually walking the talk and driving one. Manufacturers love to win comparison tests. Journalists moan about heavy clutches and too lively chassis. Thing must be planted at all times or I cry.

So as not to lose to their competition and a fair share of potential new-to-the-brand customers, the sports cars (especially those from Germany) tend to lose their edge in favour of everyday drivability. Although, it's often got to do with various safety & emissions regulations, too.

I think this new M3 is a great example of that. Despite the seemingly large group of F8x owners who appreciate the Motorsport heritage and great capability on race tracks and challenging back roads, the majority of cars are only used for puttering around towns.

Let's be honest, how many M3 drivers in this thread alone have been to the track more than once? Or are able not to stick it in the ditch with DSC off?

I don't know precisely how BMW conduct their customer research - there's now dozens of M3 and M4 running around Nordschleife. I bet if they went and asked the owners, they'd find them begging BMW to keep the DCT and add lightness amongst other race car things. But that's not enough people to satisfy the hunger for corporate sales, simply put. Gotta broaden the audience and that means attracting non-M buyers and other rich first-time buyers who may just want the badge and more aggressive design to differentiate themselves from the plebs in 320i M Sports.

I also don't know how much say M GmbH has got in the early stages of planning and developing AG vehicles, you know, whether they can go and tell them not to make the new 3 Series so damn bloated. They just might have got to work with what they get from AG on a certain budget... Hence the xDrive, ZF 8HP*, and various styling and tech gimmicks to hide the bloat and lack of edginess.

However, I firmly believe that with the arrival of the ex-Audi Sport guy Frank van Meel in 2015, things changed. Biermann supposedly left when he got told the F90 can't have a twin-clutch 'box again. van Meel is said to be responsible for the automatic xDrive line-up and the base/Comp/CS model hierarchy we've got now.

With the multi-variant strategy where they have a base, Competition, CS and CSL models, I would say that going forward, the CS cars are going to be what many enthusiasts refer to as "the real M." Can even see it in the M5 CS advert - referencing past ///Motorsport heritage unlike the screaming monkeys in G8x commercials. On the other hand, they're shooting themselves in the foot with the honestly quite absurd pricing of CS and GTS models.

I wonder whether they have really thought of going the Porsche way, i.e. giving us the options of sports suspensions, rear seat deletes or half cages. The will to give those to hardcore customers is there (F82 GTS), unfortunately, they'd rather milk the cow by trying to sell us limited editions instead.

* I still think the move from Getrag M-DCT to ZF slush-box was heavily influenced by R&D costs. The S63 & DCT combination was already available so the M5 could have retained it easily and it's not like they could not have paired the 'box with the S58 either. F10 M5 DCT could have a factory tow hook, too.

[Tecnniqe]

Well the new car is simply in another segment from the F8X and previous generations, and that’s just how it is.

It’s a very competent car but different.

The more I hear about the car and see it the more sure I am of this.

You can get a okay spec Porsche for the (close to) same price that a well spec G8X that does sports car better than the G8X. As some reviewers said, if you want a sports car it’s about the feel and driver engagement and Porsche beats the G there and that’s all that matters in a car like that.

Enthusiast market is just not big enough for BMWs bottom line, I guess. Sad really, end of an era.

Watching the CH review again and comparing to his other of the F8X and M2 he just seems... not enthusiastic at all.
And like the written review said, it’s fantastic for what BMW made it for, but they didn’t make it for what it used to be.

If I had to sell my coupe for a sedan I’d change to a brand I never really liked, and that’s Alfa simply because I can’t stand the exterior.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by swagon

However, I firmly believe that with the arrival of the ex-Audi Sport guy Frank van Meel in 2015, things changed. Biermann supposedly left when he got told the F90 can't have a twin-clutch 'box again. van Meel is said to be responsible for the automatic xDrive line-up and the base/Comp/CS model hierarchy we've got now. [/I]

I just thought about this the other day when I walked by an Audi S5 fake coupe sedan thing. The S4/5 have become so neutered since the early days. My father had a 2004 S4 with the 4.2 V8, a 6MT and the Recaro seats. That car was an absolute monster. Then Audi expanded the RS line to the point the S cars were relegated to 35i/40i comparisons. All of them ended up going somewhat soft. It's like the BMW line is being modeled just like the Audis.

[pbar]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

2 reviewers picked the Giulia QV in the Autocar review
1 reviewer picked the Giulia QV in the Pistonhead review
1 reviewer picked the 911 Carrera in the Cars review
1 reviewer picked the M4 in the Cars review

Thanks! I guess that's exactly the (small) set I'd expected.

What's frustrating here is that if you listen to their original reviews of the Giulia they almost always ended with:
"Awesome car, but would I want to buy one with my own money... No."

And the 911 just isn't really in the same equivalence class since the rear seats are unusable for adults, and I'm not sure I could live without my StealthHitch for carrying bikes.

I am trying sooo hard to justify the 911 option. If GÜRÜRACK ever make a product for the 992 then I'll be out of here in an instant!

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by pbar

What's frustrating here is that if you listen to their original reviews of the Giulia they almost always ended with:
"Awesome car, but would I want to buy one with my own money... No."

Well that tells you everything you need to know doesn’t it?

[AlterZgo]

Found this awesome retro BMW for my F8x forum friends. This was designed by none other than Marcello Gandini, the guy who designed the Lamborghini Miura, Countach and Diablo. Apparently, he was also the father of the original beaver grill! G8x is merely an homage to this classic.

[RugbyBro]

I’ve had these observations on the reviewers/reviewers themselves having watched a bunch of the reviews and slept on it:

- No one has really made an opinion on if it is a “better” car than F8X. We know it’s objectively more capable but I haven’t seen any consensus that it’s the car that reviewers would take home, in general and/or over an F8X. I think it’s going to come down to personal preference in whether you want a more pedestrian or more lively experience between the two.
- The comparisons made seem to be to the regular 4 series and only to F8X when convenient. One would expect a direct comparison to F8X when reviewers are talking about things being better but many of those are referenced in relation to G22. Similar to BMW marketing in the lead up, only referencing F8X when convenient. It’s a bit strange because I get the feeling having watched these reviews that the reviewers have a bit of apprehension calling F8X out by name and saying G8X is better or worse in different regards. There’s only subtle references here or there in which F8X is known as “the predecessor”.
- Many of the reviews from less established outlets seem like they’re reiterating press kit talking points (to be expected in first to market reviews). There are just too many of the exact same common talking points and certain characteristics are described in too similar of a way for it to be coincidence. One particular example is the phrasing and description of the engine characteristics, and the repeated referencing to “early” F8X (this particular comparison seems a bit cherry picked, or as in the above point, convenient)

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

Found this awesome retro BMW for my F8x forum friends. This was designed by none other than Marcello Gandini, the guy who designed the Lamborghini Miura, Countach and Diablo. Apparently, he was also the father of the original beaver grill! G8x is merely an homage to this classic.

Interesting, I hadn’t seen that. Dare I say... that hasn’t aged very gracefully

[swagon]

Originally Posted by F8SEVEN

I just thought about this the other day when I walked by an Audi S5 fake coupe sedan thing. The S4/5 have become so neutered since the early days. My father had a 2004 S4 with the 4.2 V8, a 6MT and the Recaro seats. That car was an absolute monster. Then Audi expanded the RS line to the point the S cars were relegated to 35i/40i comparisons. All of them ended up going somewhat soft. It's like the BMW line is being modeled just like the Audis.

Can summarise this in one sentence:

The only way to get close to a fun BMW sedan/coupe and a manual transmission in a 3 Series is a 75k M3/M4.

This is what we've come to.

Anything else below that has become too much of a white home appliance on four wheels. Doesn't matter how many M badges they throw onto it. Can't even get a RWD M340i in Europe.

To be fair, it's an industry-wide issue that there are just not that many affordable-ish cars for the enthusiast that doesn't have M3 money yet.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by swagon

Can summarise this in one sentence:

The only way to get close to a fun BMW sedan/coupe and a manual transmission in a 3 Series is a 75k M3/M4.

This is what we've come to.

Anything else below that has become too much of a white home appliance on four wheels. Doesn't matter how many M badges they throw onto it. Can't even get a RWD M340i in Europe.

To be fair, it's an industry-wide issue that there are just not that many affordable-ish cars for the enthusiast that doesn't have M3 money yet.

This is why I stuck with my '21 M2C order even after my ED trip was cancelled due to covid. My '18 F82 was great and I had no need for a new car, but when BMW said they were cancelling ED forever, I jumped on the chance to have one last go. That didn't happen, but I figured I couldn't beat the F87 6MT for the money while I wait and see what I'll move on to next. I flirted with ordering a relatively stripped IOMG G80 6MT, but I just couldn't.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by F8SEVEN

I just thought about this the other day when I walked by an Audi S5 fake coupe sedan thing. The S4/5 have become so neutered since the early days. My father had a 2004 S4 with the 4.2 V8, a 6MT and the Recaro seats. That car was an absolute monster. Then Audi expanded the RS line to the point the S cars were relegated to 35i/40i comparisons. All of them ended up going somewhat soft. It's like the BMW line is being modeled just like the Audis.

I think this is exactly it. M is going the way of RS and AMG, just one generation later. Just look at AMG for instance, sure they’re fast and capable performers, but with the exception of the GT, they’re all homogenous, lack character, and are completely forgettable. I don’t know any of my MB friends/fans that would take a W205 over a W204 as a long term keeper. Watching an interview with Biermann (by MotoManTV if interested) it’s apparent this shift started with F8X - when BMW mandated a turbo engine and mandated that it be co-developed alongside N55 instead of being a bespoke engine (BMW board specifically thought M engine development was too expensive). Luckily there were still enough old school M guys there that they made lemonade out of lemons, but Biermann was very clear that BMW was pushing the cars in a direction he didn’t agree with.

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

I’ve had these observations on the reviewers/reviewers themselves having watched a bunch of the reviews and slept on it:

- No one has really made an opinion on if it is a “better” car than F8X. We know it’s objectively more capable but I haven’t seen any consensus that it’s the car that reviewers would take home, in general and/or over an F8X. I think it’s going to come down to personal preference in whether you want a more pedestrian or more lively experience between the two.
- The comparisons made seem to be to the regular 4 series and only to F8X when convenient. One would expect a direct comparison to F8X when reviewers are talking about things being better but many of those are referenced in relation to G22. Similar to BMW marketing in the lead up, only referencing F8X when convenient. It’s a bit strange because I get the feeling having watched these reviews that the reviewers have a bit of apprehension calling F8X out by name and saying G8X is better or worse in different regards. There’s only subtle references here or there in which F8X is known as “the predecessor”.
- Many of the reviews from less established outlets seem like they’re reiterating press kit talking points (to be expected in first to market reviews). There are just too many of the exact same common talking points and certain characteristics are described in too similar of a way for it to be coincidence. One particular example is the phrasing and description of the engine characteristics, and the repeated referencing to “early” F8X (this particular comparison seems a bit cherry picked, or as in the above point, convenient)

I too found the lack of comparisons to the F8X really weird.
Especially from Throttle House, I feel like they barely mentioned it at all and if you look at the C63 review they really liked it.

As for others, yeah the points seems cherry picked I guess, the common theme here is how frightening the early models was in comparison but they fail to mention anything else besides that.

Instead they all seem to compare Merc and Audi as a reason why this is good.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

I too found the lack of comparisons to the F8X really weird.
Especially from Throttle House, I feel like they barely mentioned it at all and if you look at the C63 review they really liked it.

As for others, yeah the points seems cherry picked I guess, the common theme here is how frightening the early models was in comparison but they fail to mention anything else besides that.

Instead they all seem to compare Merc and Audi as a reason why this is good.

I think its mainly because TH doesn't have much experience in the F8X platform. They've only reviewed the F83 vert which isn't as easily comparable to the new G8X due to the structural and weight differences, they did make some mentions about the F87 though but still a different car. What would have been interesting was if TheStraightPipes, as much as I dislike them, would have compared it to the M3 CS which they drove.

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

I think its mainly because TH doesn't have much experience in the F8X platform. They've only reviewed the F83 vert which isn't as easily comparable to the new G8X due to the structural and weight differences, they did make some mentions about the F87 though but still a different car. What would have been interesting was if TheStraightPipes, as much as I dislike them, would have compared it to the M3 CS which they drove.

Yep. I really wish that they, after having tracked the G got a F comp to do the same in. I’d really love to hear what they think.

Hardly anyone mentions the F tho.
The hardest hitting was TopGears written review going through what made the generations special and the character they lost.

It really is unfortunate.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

Yep. I really wish that they, after having tracked the G got a F comp to do the same in. I’d really love to hear what they think.

Hardly anyone mentions the F tho.
The hardest hitting was TopGears written review going through what made the generations special and the character they lost.

It really is unfortunate.

Someone has got to do a G8X vs F8X with wider tires and possibly camber plates. I think that’s a very interesting proposition

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

Yep. I really wish that they, after having tracked the G got a F comp to do the same in. I’d really love to hear what they think.

Hardly anyone mentions the F tho.
The hardest hitting was TopGears written review going through what made the generations special and the character they lost.

It really is unfortunate.

I think the track comparisons will be available soon.

[ABenLauda]

The cunts banned me for what I can only assume was because I changed my profile pic.