F80 Paul Johnson 93oct Stock Tune

[irunalot]

I finally decided to move to a custom tune after running the BM3 CS/GTS/Stage1/Stage 2 tunes. All the OTS tunes were great but for me personally lacked some refinement. With my previous car a F-Type SVR I went through a few tunes, and the final custom “track” tune made a huge difference. Having that as previous experience I decided on a custom tune for the F80. After some research on tuners, I decided to go with Paul Johnson (no disrespect to any other tuner that was my personal choice). I asked for a strong tune but something I could track with and drive 7/10ths. or 8/10ths and be safe, lap after lap. I did not want a peaky tune that would drop off after IATs start to rise. Power delivery was also important as the OTS tunes great for power but the delivery at lower RPMs left something to be desired IMHO.

Since I’ve been focused on suspension mods and will continue to do so, I only have drop in BMC filters and no other mods. I’m also running 93 octane Shell or Exxon fuel. I was thinking about catted down pipes but after seeing these numbers and driving the car home, I’m not seeing the need to. Drivability is vastly improved throughout the rev range.

The dyno results posted are stock vs the final F80 tune as well as stock/stage1/stage2/F80 Paul tune. The numbers speak for themselves; I was not expecting these numbers form a stock car, especially the torque figures. One thing to note is the final number is after 7 pulls, so its not a cold.

I can’t say enough about F80 Paul’s attention to detail, we did pull after pull for him to make minor adjustments and I will more than likely pull some data from a track day to further refine the tune. John as CES Motorsports here in the Charlotte area was a pleasure to work with. Very knowledgeable on the BMW platform and making HP. I cannot recommend him enough! Thank you horsepower_and_hounds for the reference!

[calubi]

Nice numbers! Please share how it performs on track!

[Kilabyte]

Another 50 rwtq in the midrange vs Stage 1, that's pretty impressive.

[RElias21]

This is so helpful! Huge torque gain!

Can you PM cost for this custom tune and how you went about doing it? Did you spend a day at a shop, dyno'ing the car, with Paul working on it remotely?

How long would you say the process took.

[jfritz27]

I'd similarly be interested in those details... if not too much trouble, please just copy/paste your PM to the above poster to me too!

Thanks much

[Rjpacman]

Interesting how stage 2 basically makes same power as stage 1

[SYT_Shadow]

I don't understand. You now have even more midrange torque than you did with the stg1/2 tunes. This is completely counterproductive to tracking the car.

I thought I was going to see a sweet torque limited tune perfect for track use. I'm sure Paul is more than capable.

[hC1001]

Originally Posted by Rjpacman

Interesting how stage 2 basically makes same power as stage 1

Most likely because he still has stock downpipes but yea, going from stock to stage 1 is a huge difference compared to stage 1 to stage 2.

I agree with SYT_Shadow.

[irunalot]

The process with Paul is similar to other tuners.

1. Purchase the tune on his site or through a partner. Here I went with CES Motorsports as they have worked with him on many tunes. Make sure you state what you expect from the tune. I wanted linear repeatable delivery, not max power.
2. You will get a base tune file that you do the following with:
a. At this point decide on doing data logs via BM3 on the street or dyno. I have no intention of going to jail doing 3rd through 5th gear pulls on public roads so I decided on the dyno. Hence the involvement of CES Motorsports. I did do a short pull in 3rd so he could see that the car was healthy and kept me legal here in “Mexico”. I learned my lesson long ago; I save it for the track.
3. Once he gets the data he can see if the car is healthy, and you make an appointment for the dyno.
4. Once there I suggest pulling some baselines of tunes you have been using. This gives you a good point of reference. I’m glad I compared all the tunes I have used, seeing the data helps to understand what I have been feeling.
5. Once you run though the baselines you flash his base tune again so he can see how it performs on the dyno.
6. From that point he reads the data and revises the tune.
a. We gained around 10Hp and 15Tq through revisions, but it really smoothed out the powerband and the AFR numbers.
b. He will go though this process a few times; we did 4 revisions on the dyno.
7. Once he was happy with the numbers, he said to do some data logging on the track or even street driving to see if anything may not be perfectly ideal. His feedback is detailed and asks questions of you so have your goals in mind.

Let me know if you have any other questions

[irunalot]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I don't understand. You now have even more midrange torque than you did with the stg1/2 tunes. This is completely counterproductive to tracking the car.

I thought I was going to see a sweet torque limited tune perfect for track use.

I agree but traction can be reduced via BM3 or the right foot. This is one of the things he asked me to get back to him about. Torque also starts earlier then with the OTS tunes. Now will it be touchy yes, but I can get it reduced if needed. This is pretty close to my past track cars which I was pretty happy with. Maybe not ideal for everyone but I was happy with it.

The car overall feels much more linear which is what I was after. It’s not as jerky and abrupt at lower RPMSs as the OTS tunes, which is what I hated about them.

[irunalot]

Originally Posted by hC1001

Most likely because he still has stock downpipes but yea, going from stock to stage 1 is a huge difference compared to stage 1 to stage 2.

I agree with SYT_Shadow.

That is exactly it, the DPs would make a difference with Stage2.

[hC1001]

When you say track, do you mean road course or drag strip/roll racing?

I normally associate track with road course and that may be what SVT_Shadow also thought.

[irunalot]

Road course, I'm not much of a drag guy.

Hes dead on, and he told me to limit it if needed and to get him some track data. I personally like the power on early and consistent though the power band. My last cars were SC V8s making around 600 wheel HP with somewhat similar curves.

I'm sure SVT_Shadow is a better track driver then I so I not arguing with his experience. I'm just going with what I have been happy with in the past. I'm happy controlling corner exit traction with my foot. I'm never going to get NA perfect linear power delivery. So flat is what it is for the time being. That being said the tune is safe and consistent for the track, and not just a single pull or drag run.

[SYT_Shadow]

I'm just concerned for you. I spent a lot of time diagnosing impossible handling from a friend's GTS. After doing full suspension, sways, spl arms, 10.5" wheels with 295 R7s... the car still could not put down the midrange torque from a torque limited stage 1 tune.

A pro driver who races M4 GT4 drove it and said we needed a new version with less torque. Less than a stage 1! And here I see a metric ton of torque.

If it works for you, more power to ya!

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I'm just concerned for you. I spent a lot of time diagnosing impossible handling from a friend's GTS. After doing full suspension, sways, spl arms, 10.5" wheels with 295 R7s... the car still could not put down the midrange torque from a torque limited stage 1 tune.

A pro driver who races M4 GT4 drove it and said we needed a new version with less torque. Less than a stage 1! And here I see a metric ton of torque.

If it works for you, more power to ya!

Do you happen to know how much torque is recommended in the range to be able to put it down, generally?

[irunalot]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I'm just concerned for you. I spent a lot of time diagnosing impossible handling from a friend's GTS. After doing full suspension, sways, spl arms, 10.5" wheels with 295 R7s... the car still could not put down the midrange torque from a torque limited stage 1 tune.

A pro driver who races M4 GT4 drove it and said we needed a new version with less torque. Less than a stage 1! And here I see a metric ton of torque.

If it works for you, more power to ya!

Very good point, and I can't disagree with you. That may very well be the case, but I can always ask him to limit it via the tune if necessary. One thing compared to OTS is it feels smoother when it does come on. I am running larger bars, B16Ds(MCS 3ways next), SPL mono-ball tension arms, end links and toe links. Of course, what it feels like now and the track are two different things. From what I remember of the stock suspension it’s too much for sure.

Thank you for sharing that information I always appreciate your input on all things track related!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by irunalot

Very good point, and I can't disagree with you. That may very well be the case, but I can always ask him to limit it via the tune if necessary. One thing compared to OTS is it feels smoother when it does come on. I am running larger bars, B16Ds(MCS 3ways next), SPL mono-ball tension arms, end links and toe links. Of course, what it feels like now and the track are two different things. From what I remember of the stock suspension it’s too much for sure.

Thank you for sharing that information I always appreciate your input on all things track related!

The car in question ran MCS 3WR. Fantastic suspension, I have it in my CS and E90 stroker track car

And of course, you can always limit it afterwards!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

Do you happen to know how much torque is recommended in the range to be able to put it down, generally?

The CS and GTS were limited to 443ftlb. All the delta in power between those two comes after 5k rpm.

The 'torque limited tune' was keeping it just around 550wtq, we tried to drop it to ~510wtq. Basically 'forcing' less torque and allowing as much top end as the engine would allow.

Something that seems super, super interesting with Paul is the possibility of using torqbyte and a water/meth system like aquamist to literally build yourself a GTS+ clone, complete with safeguards and only running water to lower the thermal load on the engine.
I would like to do that, plus a torque limited tune. The light blue line in this graph. Note the 3-4k rpm torque is much closer to stock and then your topend really takes off.
With water injection, the torqbyte controller and a tune from Paul keeping torque around 510wtq you would have something pretty awesome. A GTS+.

[hC1001]

Originally Posted by irunalot

Very good point, and I can't disagree with you. That may very well be the case, but I can always ask him to limit it via the tune if necessary. One thing compared to OTS is it feels smoother when it does come on. I am running larger bars, B16Ds(MCS 3ways next), SPL mono-ball tension arms, end links and toe links. Of course, what it feels like now and the track are two different things. From what I remember of the stock suspension it’s too much for sure.

Thank you for sharing that information I always appreciate your input on all things track related!

Ok, very cool. Its more important how you want the car to feel. It just seems like it would be like walking on egg shells during corner exits.

What tires are you running?

[irunalot]

I kinda like that feeling LOL but if I start chasing lap times with this car that might change.

I have not decided on tires, still thinking about that one. For the street I'm on MPS4S, but track wheels/tires are still to be decided. I may do a a few days on these just to get a feel for the car, but I know its going to need track shoes soon.

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The CS and GTS were limited to 443ftlb. All the delta in power between those two comes after 5k rpm.

The 'torque limited tune' was keeping it just around 550wtq, we tried to drop it to ~510wtq. Basically 'forcing' less torque and allowing as much top end as the engine would allow.

Something that seems super, super interesting with Paul is the possibility of using torqbyte and a water/meth system like aquamist to literally build yourself a GTS+ clone, complete with safeguards and only running water to lower the thermal load on the engine.
I would like to do that, plus a torque limited tune. The light blue line in this graph. Note the 3-4k rpm torque is much closer to stock and then your topend really takes off.
With water injection, the torqbyte controller and a tune from Paul keeping torque around 510wtq you would have something pretty awesome. A GTS+.

That’s pretty awesome

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by irunalot

I kinda like that feeling LOL but if I start chasing lap times with this car that might change.

I have not decided on tires, still thinking about that one. For the street I'm on MPS4S, but track wheels/tires are still to be decided. I may do a a few days on these just to get a feel for the car, but I know its going to need track shoes soon.

What rims and dimensions for the 4s’ are you using and does it allows you to pull on the street with this tune?

I tried Cup2 on a stage 2 and that was glued to the road in optimal conditions but even then you had to be careful on exit.