F82 suspension options while keeping EDC?

[_ts]

I’m a huge fan of my F82, but I wish it felt more “planted” like a 911. What are my options for suspension upgrades that allow me to keep EDC? This is primarily for road use. Thanks.

[tle6160]

Best bet would probably be kw ddc if you’re looking to keep EDC. Little bit more on the pricier end up I’ve heard that it’s worth it. Most people would probably recommend just completely ditching edc and getting something along the lines of a

KW V3 (essentially the same as DDC without EDC; cheaper too)
Ohlins R&T
MCS
etc.

Really up to your budget

[Matt@Evolve]

This is pretty much exactly what we designed our Evolve B6 EDC dampers with Bilstein for, it's so nice to be able to retain EDC but also upgrade the damping quality.

[M3SQRD]

In order of increasing price (TracTive and Nitron are similarly priced) and performance:

Bilstein B6
Evolve/Bilstein B6
Bilstein B16
KW DDC (not at all like the KW V3)
TracTive Touring Line
TracTive Track Line
TracTive Motorsport (3-way, independent manually adjustable LSC & HSC)
Nitron e-tron Roadsport
Nitron e-tron R1
Nitron e-tron R3 (3-way, independent manually adjustable LSC & HSC)

[_ts]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

In order of increasing price (TracTive and Nitron are similarly priced) and performance:

Bilstein B6
Evolve/Bilstein B6
Bilstein B16
KW DDC (not at all like the KW V3)
TracTive Touring Line
TracTive Track Line
TracTive Motorsport (3-way, independent manually adjustable LSC & HSC)
Nitron e-tron Roadsport
Nitron e-tron R1
Nitron e-tron R3 (3-way, independent manually adjustable LSC & HSC)

Wow, thank you for such a comprehensive list. I really appreciate it.

Between the Bilstein, Evolve, and the KWs - what would you say would be best for street use? I’m really trying to go for that “planted” 911 feel.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by _ts

Wow, thank you for such a comprehensive list. I really appreciate it.

Between the Bilstein, Evolve, and the KWs - what would you say would be best for street use? I’m really trying to go for that “planted” 911 feel.

It’s going to be pretty much impossible to get a f8x to feel like a 911 due to the significantly different weight distribution and rotational inertia. You can setup the car to be competitive with gt3’s but then it’s close to being a dedicated track car with a > $9k suspension.

Out of the three, I’d order them in terms of performance:
-Bilstein B16 damptronic
-KW DDC (most compliant setup)
-Evolve/Bilstein B6 damptronic or Bilstein B6 damptronic (tied, I have yet to see anything quantitative to say the Evolve/Bilstein is better than the Bilstein B6, stuck with using lowering springs or the MSS HAS but they refuse to provide spring rates because of their “classified” triple rear spring rate which is nothing special)

I’ve heard mixed reviews from the B16 Damptronic. Some say it’s too harsh while others say it’s not. However, it’s the highest performing of the ones you’ve listed. KW DDC should provide good chassis support but also the most compliant ride.

Edit: I’d strongly recommend the Nitron Roadsport EDC plug-n-play setup for the street. ~$4700 for the Roadsport isn’t inexpensive but it’s cheaper than a KW DDC setup and will give you that confidence inspiring handling that you’re looking for.

[_ts]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

It’s going to be pretty much impossible to get a f8x to feel like a 911 due to the significantly different weight distribution and rotational inertia. You can setup the car to be competitive with gt3’s but then it’s close to being a dedicated track car with a > $9k suspension.

Out of the three, I’d order them in terms of performance:
-Bilstein B16 damptronic
-KW DDC (most compliant setup)
-Evolve/Bilstein B6 damptronic or Bilstein B6 damptronic (tied, I have yet to see anything quantitative to say the Evolve/Bilstein is better than the Bilstein B6, stuck with using lowering springs or the MSS HAS but they refuse to provide spring rates because of their “classified” triple rear spring rate which is nothing special)

I’ve heard mixed reviews from the B16 Damptronic. Some say it’s too harsh while others say it’s not. However, it’s the highest performing of the ones you’ve listed. KW DDC should provide good chassis support but also the most compliant ride.

Edit: I’d strongly recommend the Nitron Roadsport EDC plug-n-play setup for the street. ~$4700 for the Roadsport isn’t inexpensive but it’s cheaper than a KW DDC setup and will give you that confidence inspiring handling that you’re looking for.

Wow thank you. The Nitron Roadsport EDC looks really interesting. Where can these be purchased in the US?

[noemon]

Originally Posted by _ts

Wow, thank you for such a comprehensive list. I really appreciate it.

Between the Bilstein, Evolve, and the KWs - what would you say would be best for street use? I’m really trying to go for that “planted” 911 feel.

Neither.

The only good one for the street with EDC is the Tractive one. That is the only EDC suspension for this car with excellent road manners and good performance too.

As many like to say here, pay once, cry once.

Neither of these 3 systems you picked will settle your mind as they are all stiff and always leaving a bitter aftertaste.

I have spent shitloads of money on suspension.

The best suspension by far that I've tried for this car is the non-EDC Intrax 1k2 with ARC.

Can be used in the city, on potholes, for grand touring and on track. It will take anything you throw at it.

The next best suspension that also happens to be EDC enabled is the Tractive one.

The Nitron EDC version has not had a single customer or a single review yet.

I suggest you search in here peoples feedback for the Bilsteins and KW's, they tend to be quite hard.

[_ts]

Originally Posted by noemon

Neither.

The only good one for the street with EDC is the Tractive one. That is the only EDC suspension for this car with excellent road manners and good performance too.

As many like to say here, pay once, cry once.

Neither of these 3 systems you picked will settle your mind as they are all stiff and always leaving a bitter aftertaste.

I have spent shitloads of money on suspension.

The best suspension by far that I've tried for this car is the non-EDC Intrax 1k2 with ARC.

Can be used in the city, on potholes, for grand touring and on track. It will take anything you throw at it.

The next best suspension that also happens to be EDC enabled is the Tractive one.

The Nitron EDC version has not had a single customer or a single review yet.

I suggest you search in here peoples feedback for the Bilsteins and KW's, they tend to be quite hard.

From what I have read, most people say that the Bilsteins are too harsh for the road, but I haven't really heard the same about the KW DDC.

I was looking at this thread and they mentioned TracTive Touring was a bit harsher.

I haven't really head anything about Nitron e-tron Roadsport, besides this thread, however I have heard great stuff about their other offerings.

TracTive Touring would offer better everyday drivability than the KW DDC?

[F82tyler]

HAS kit for sure. I’m selling my MP HAS kit for $700

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by noemon

Neither.

The only good one for the street with EDC is the Tractive one.

Not everyone can afford to purchase a $4.5k-$9k suspension setup so the Bilstein EDC line up are for people looking for options other than OEM as well as looking for improved performance and/or different EDC ride quality tuning.

Nitron has released their EDC plug-n-play e-tron Roadsport, e-tron R1 and e-tron R3. Roadsport competes directly with TracTive touring, e-tron R1 vs. TracTive Track and e-tron R3 vs. TracTive Motorsport. The Nitron e-tron setups are having damping developed/fine tuned specifically for the f8x, including f87, by OGS & IL. Nitron has been in business since 1998 whereas TracTive has been in business for a decade or so, meaning Nitron has more practical suspension tuning experience than TracTive. Was TracTive started by vehicle dynamic engineers that left top race damper manufacturers or was it started by vehicle dynamic engineers with no practical experience? Nitrons conventional R1 and R3 setups compete with top race damper manufacturers. Their e-tron versions, with their standalone DCU, will IMO outperform the TracTive ACE controller versions. I have nothing against TracTive but I believe Nitron will offer superior performance EDC setups. Street ride quality may be similar between the two.

There are people running e-tron setups in the f8x and g8x. There’s only a handful or so of TracTive EDC users in the f8x and g8x forums yet their dampers have been available for several years. I’m aware of three TracTive reviews, one was not useful at all. With only a limited number of forum reviews mean the TracTive is a poor option? You could say the same thing about Intrax. Most people aren’t qualified to provide a true quantitative review of dampers because it’s a highly complex technical topic. Most reviews are “it drives like it’s on rails now” lol

[noemon]

Originally Posted by _ts

From what I have read, most people say that the Bilsteins are too harsh for the road, but I haven't really heard the same about the KW DDC.

I was looking at this thread and they mentioned TracTive Touring was a bit harsher.

I haven't really head anything about Nitron e-tron Roadsport, besides this thread, however I have heard great stuff about their other offerings.

TracTive Touring would offer better everyday drivability than the KW DDC?

I don't know what the guy did with the spring rates as they are the exact same as stock when you order the Touring kit(I have the kit and the rates are identical as stock) but it's clear he specced something he shouldn't have.

My wife was extremely happy both with Tractive and with Intrax. I still have them both and use the car to tour Europe with the family almost every year. My 2 boys are 6ft 1 and we are 5 in total.

There is no comparison between Tractive and Bilstein or KW. It is night and day difference. KW and Bilstein should not be sold as road setups. Lots of tears shed by people who wanted to believe otherwise.

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Nitron has released their EDC plug-n-play e-tron Roadsport, e-tron R1 and e-tron R3. Roadsport competes directly with TracTive touring, e-tron R1 vs. TracTive Track and e-tron R3 vs. TracTive Motorsport. The Nitron e-tron setups are having damping developed/fine tuned specifically for the f8x, including f87, by OGS & IL. Nitron has been in business since 1998 whereas TracTive has been in business for a decade or so, meaning Nitron has more practical suspension tuning experience than TracTive. Was TracTive started by vehicle dynamic engineers that left top race damper manufacturers or was it started by vehicle dynamic engineers with no practical experience? Nitrons conventional R1 and R3 setups compete with top race damper manufacturers. Their e-tron versions, with their standalone DCU, will IMO outperform the TracTive ACE controller versions. I have nothing against TracTive but I believe Nitron will offer superior performance EDC setups. Street ride quality may be similar between the two.

Nitron have zero patents and zero tech. They build shocks the same way as they were built in the 1960's.

Tractive and Intrax both have proven patents that aid comfort and are OEM suppliers to supercars and numerous racing teams.

I have driven R1's and there is no comparison with either Intrax or Tractive, they are almost identical to KW's, pretty basic stuff, good damping, stability but stiff af.

[WillemM4C]

I live 10km from Tractive and 30km from Intrax and 20km from JRZ

We have al lot of premium suspension manufacturers here in my area, most of them were working with “white power suspension” in the past, when they moved to another country some engineers decided to started their own brand.

I think the differences between them are small, but Intrax have their own manufacturing workshop and can install in their own workshop.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by noemon

I don't know what the guy did with the spring rates as they are the exact same as stock when you order the Touring kit(I have the kit and the rates are identical as stock) but it's clear he specced something he shouldn't have.

My wife was extremely happy both with Tractive and with Intrax. I still have them both and use the car to tour Europe with the family almost every year. My 2 boys are 6ft 1 and we are 5 in total.

There is no comparison between Tractive and Bilstein or KW. It is night and day difference. KW and Bilstein should not be sold as road setups. Lots of tears shed by people who wanted to believe otherwise.



Nitron have zero patents and zero tech. They build shocks the same way as they were built in the 1960's.

Tractive and Intrax both have proven patents that aid comfort and are OEM suppliers to supercars and numerous racing teams.

I have driven R1's and there is no comparison with either Intrax or Tractive, they are almost identical to KW's, pretty basic stuff, good damping, stability but stiff af.

Built the same way as dampers from the 1960s, really? Do you know how far damper design and tech has advanced since the 1960s? Please provide the source(s) definitively proving Nitron builds and uses damper tech from the 1960s. KW stole Koni’s damper designs when they started so that should say something about KW. Also, KW is a twin tube design whereas Nitron is a gas pressured monotube design. KW uses preloaded needle valves shims vs. orifices in the Nitron which isn’t 1960s technology. Different feel and response for the very different designs. So the number of patents correlates directly with the dampers performance/capability? No race teams use Nitron dampers? Please list the oem companies that use TracTive and Intrax dampers. It’s clear you believe TracTive and Intrax are the best dampers and nothing else compares to them which is laughable. TracTive touring does offer a limited number of different spring rates, not only stock rates.

Bilstein B4, B6, including Evolve B6 version, and B16 damptronic options have mixed reviews when it comes to performance and harshness because harshness is subjective, not objective. For example, I’m certain I can handle a broader range of harshness than you can considering you’re running stock springs. I run higher spring rates on my r56 Cooper S with R&T dampers and it has smooth control over the spring rates without harshness even with a short wheelbase compared to the f8x. It passes the wife metric, too, as a passenger and a driver.

Nitron has developed suspensions for OEMs, OEM sports cars, race cars, complete race series as well as limited edition or one-off custom setups. Some of the fastest cars on the Nurburgring. What about TracTive and Intrax? I don’t recall ever reading or hearing about them having won 24 hrs of Nurburgring, 24 hours of Spa, LeMans 24 hours, Daytona 24 hours, the 12 hours of Sebring, Petit LeMans, etc.

Who compared or said KW is better than TracTive? It wasn’t me. I’m personally not a fan of KW for several reasons. KW DDC is setup for comfort, not performance. KW V and CS setups are inferior to most high-end setups. KW Motorsport is their setup that compares with high-end or race dampers. How does TracTive and Intrax dampers compare to Ohlins TTX through shaft dampers? I’m a supporter of MCS 2/3/4WR dampers but I have no problem admitting other brands perform just as well. When properly setup, we’re talking about dampers with lap times that differ by only a <= 0.1 sec. Selection mostly comes down to your preference and budget as well as the dampers the race shop you work with has the most experience working with.

I’ve never heard of anyone using the wife metric as a criteria when buying a high-end suspension. You could swap almost any high-end damper with your stock spring rates and they’d all pass the wife metric. A sign of a quality high-end damper is one that provides superior performance and ride quality with the use of higher spring rates over a stock setup with soft rates.

The feeling of “stiff” comes from spring rates, not the damper. Dampers do not add stiffness. Their job is to absorb energy so the disturbed suspension returns to its starting equilibrium point with limited overshoot/oscillations. Comparing anything to your Intrax and TracTive setups with stock spring rates with any high-end damper setup for performance over ride quality is going to feel relatively stiff and firm to you. I would hope Intrax and TracTive dampers can provide stability and chassis control with such soft spring rates. One-way dampers, conventional or semi-active, are very limited and over constrain damper setups. Semi-active setups wouldn’t be required to have independent manually adjustable LSC and HSC if they are better than conventional dampers. Are the Intrax and TracTive valving spec’d specifically for stock spring rates? If not, you must have a small window of adjustment before your suspension is overdamped. Are your setups using the front bump stops? If not then matching stock front spring rates means you have a setup that’s actually softer than oem. I certainly would not compare other race dampers running street or dual-purpose rates to your setups because you might be surprised that there are other dampers that perform better than your two suspension brands with stock spring rates. You’re leaving a huge amount of on-track performance on the table while running stock spring rates but apparently that’s what you want which is fine.

[noemon]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

It’s clear you believe TracTive and Intrax are the best dampers and nothing else compares to them which is laughable.

They are indeed the best street-comfort dampers for this platform in my opinion. None of the rest even come close to their road-manners. That's my view. I've said the same many times before.

I’ve never heard of anyone using the wife metric as a criteria when buying a high-end suspension.

The person asking the question in this thread and quoting the post linked which contains this exact metric.

You could swap almost any high-end damper with your stock spring rates and they’d all pass the wife metric.

Doubtful but perhaps.

A sign of a quality high-end damper is one that provides superior performance and ride quality with the use of higher spring rates over a stock setup with soft rates.

You 're missing the point.

As you already said you have a different tolerance from riding firmer spring rates. You know your stuff when it comes to setting up this car for racing & the track, but frankly there are a few of us whose prioritiy is a primarily road comfortable car that can also do grand touring and tracking. This is not about racing cars. If the car is meant for racing, then one has plenty of options, but if comfortability is the main priority, then Intrax and Tractive are the only 2 options that will impress and make someone happy with their purchase.

Nitron's, KW's, Bilsteins on this platform just do not offer the level of comfortability that Intrax and Tractive do.

I already feel bad following you down the rabbit hole of comparing companies and I would rather not go down that road.

But since you claimed that Nitron is the dog's bollocks in racing compared to relatively newer companies, you had to be told that Nitron has zero patents and innovation compared to these same companies.

[domacuratl]

Swift Sport Spec-R lowering springs and call it a day! In Sport plus suspension is super stiff and that mode is strictly for track use or really smooth roads with no imperfections. I love mine and it really buttons down the car to the road and improved the handling at the same time reducing the body roll.

-Spring rate front: 279 lbs/inch
-Spring rate rear: 726 lbs/inch
-Front lowering -1.1 inch
-Rear lowering: -0.9 inch

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by noemon

Neither.

The only good one for the street with EDC is the Tractive one. That is the only EDC suspension for this car with excellent road manners and good performance too.

lol The only EDC version you’ve tried is the best. You’re the only person I’m aware of that shits all over Nitron. What is your ACTUAL experience with Nitron, not some marketing bullshit about lack of patents someone has feed you? Unlike your TracTive EDC dampers, the Nitron e-tron versions are actually being developed and fine tuned for the f8x.

As many like to say here, pay once, cry once.

Neither of these 3 systems you picked will settle your mind as they are all stiff and always leaving a bitter aftertaste.

I have spent shitloads of money on suspension.

I listed the EDC versions the OP had asked specifically about. The Bilstein versions have had mixed reviews when it comes to harshness and so has TracTive Touring EDC.



The best suspension by far that I've tried for this car is the non-EDC Intrax 1k2 with ARC.

Now you’re moving to non-EDC setups and listing the only non-EDC setup as being the best you’ve tried. There are other non-EDC high-end dampers that are so far superior to your Intrax setup yet, without actually trying other options, that Intrax is the best and nothing else comes close - to quote you, “Doubtful but perhaps.“ Bold statement coming from someone who has only tried two setups on his f8x.

I’m curious to know what you’ve spent on two suspension setups for your f8x? There are far superior suspensions that cost more than the combined costs of your TracTive and Intrax setups.



Can be used in the city, on potholes, for grand touring and on track. It will take anything you throw at it.

Any high-end setup can be used on the street, grand touring (long distance highway driving at high speeds), and on the track. Intrax is not the only damper that can “take anything you throw at it.”

The next best suspension that also happens to be EDC enabled is the Tractive one.

Next best is the only other suspension you’ve tried. What a surprise that it’s also the second best setup for the f8x. You have two data points yet they are both the best options for the f8x. Interesting.


The Nitron EDC version has not had a single customer or a single review yet.

True statement. However, they’re being further developed and having EDC damping fine tuned for the f8x by a vehicle dynamics engineer, not some forum member that knows nothing about suspensions which is pretty much all reviews on this forum. No reviews doesn’t mean no one is using them.

I suggest you search in here peoples feedback for the Bilsteins and KW's, they tend to be quite hard.

What does “hard” mean?

Bilstein Damptronic setups have had some people say they are harsh but, again, so has TracTive.

They are indeed the best street-comfort dampers for this platform in my opinion. None of the rest even come close to their road-manners. That's my view. I've said the same many times before.

Yes, it’s your opinion that the only two dampers you’ve used of are the only two with superior street ride quality. OK. GOT IT. There are at least a handful of high-end dampers that would have a phenomenal street ride quality, street-manners, with no harshness when using stock soft spring rates especially without riding the front bump stops (BMW uses bump stops to limit suspension travel) AND spring rates stiffer than stock. However, you wouldn’t know that with your limited experience “two best” only setups you’ve tried


The person asking the question in this thread and quoting the post linked which contains this exact metric.

I couldn’t find any reference to the “wife” metric. However, I may have missed it.


Doubtful but perhaps.

Laughable response. You have limited experience with two dampers on the f8x. MCS 2/3/4W, Ohlins TTX 2, 3 and 4-way, and Moton 2 or 3-way will outperform TracTive and Intax 1-way dampers when taking “anything you can throw at it.”


You 're missing the point.

As you already said you have a different tolerance from riding firmer spring rates. You know your stuff when it comes to setting up this car for racing & the track, but frankly there are a few of us whose prioritiy is a primarily road comfortable car that can also do grand touring and tracking. This is not about racing cars. If the car is meant for racing, then one has plenty of options, but if comfortability is the main priority, then Intrax and Tractive are the only 2 options that will impress and make someone happy with their purchase.

My tolerance isn’t what I’m using as a reference. However, I bet my fxx setups will be tolerated on the street by anyone that tries them. What a biased statement - the only two setups that I’ve tried are the only two that would make someone happy with their purchase

Nitron's, KW's, Bilsteins on this platform just do not offer the level of comfortability that Intrax and Tractive have.

Where did I say KW and Bilstein offer the same level of comfortability as TracTive or Intrax or Nitron dampers? I listed EDC options in their order of performance and price that the OP asked about. Then the discussion somehow turned to a single non-EDC setup. Did the OP ask about non-EDC setups?


I already feel bad following you down the rabbit hole of comparing companies and I would rather not go down that road.

lol If you think you’re following me down a rabbit hole then it shows your limited and biased knowledge about high-end dampers.

But since you claimed that Nitron is the dog's bollocks in racing compared to relatively newer companies, you had to be told that Nitron has zero patents and innovation compared to these same companies.

I never said Niton produces the best dampers on the market. I know which one IMO is the best for several reasons but I have no problem admitting there are other high-end dampers on the market with similar performance. I couldn’t care less about how many patents Nitron does/does not have because their R3, which is just as old as your TracTive and Intrax dampers, somehow still produces a high-end damper with performance to back it up. Again, this is coming from someone who has no experience with Nitron and is making statements that sound like marketing speak coming from a Nitron competitor. Even worse, there are no other suspension options available on the market that will outperform his very limited number of two suspensions that he’s tried.

I have setup my wife’s f22 m240ix for street comfort only (zero tracking) with MCS 2WR dampers with F/R 500/800 lbf/in spring rates with 80 psi remote reservoir internal pressure (monotube). The HS blow-off valve in MCS remote reservoirs is far superior to any 1-way damper, EDC or conventional. The 2WR has almost twice the damper fluid than your two 1-way dampers. I’d challenge either of your TracTive and Intrax dampers with stock spring rates for pure street comfort with my MCS setup with non-stock spring rates.

[noemon]

lol The only EDC version you’ve tried is the best. You’re the only person I’m aware of that shits all over Nitron. What is your ACTUAL experience with Nitron, not some marketing bullshit about lack of patents someone has feed you? Unlike your TracTive EDC dampers, the Nitron e-tron versions are actually being developed and fine tuned for the f8x.

Your confusion and projection is now bordering the ridiculously pathetic.

The only thing I said was that the NITRON EDC version has not been tested by anybody.

You jumped with explicit marketing statements, "years" and other marketing nonsense that you have clearly been fed about an untested system to which you received an appropriate reply. Live with it and move on instead of doubling down on your confusion. Both Intrax and Tractive have proven patents and have had their own standalone electronic system for many years before Nitron.

I couldn’t find any reference to the “wife” metric. However, I may have missed it.

Not the first time you get confused because you 're jumping the gun. Click me.

I have setup my wife’s f22 m240ix for street comfort only (zero tracking) with MCS 2WR dampers with F/R 500/800 lbf/in spring rates with 80 psi remote reservoir internal pressure (monotube). The HS blow-off valve in MCS remote reservoirs is far superior to any 1-way damper, EDC or conventional. The 2WR has almost twice the damper fluid than your two 1-way dampers. I’d challenge either of your TracTive and Intrax dampers with stock spring rates for pure street comfort with my MCS setup with non-stock spring rates.

Congrats, I hope you 're now done with the penis contest.

Bilstein Damptronic setups have had some people say they are harsh but, again, so has TracTive.

This is the only on-topic statement you made and along with the rest of your marketing statements, it is very doubtful. So you are welcome to prove your claim about the feedback received on the 2 systems.

Any high-end setup can be used on the street, grand touring (long distance highway driving at high speeds), and on the track. Intrax is not the only damper that can “take anything you throw at it.”

Laughable response. You have limited experience with two dampers on the f8x. MCS 2/3/4W, Ohlins TTX 2, 3 and 4-way, and Moton 2 or 3-way will outperform TracTive and Intax 1-way dampers when taking “anything you can throw at it.”

Yes please tell us more, how we all need to learn to setup 3-4 way systems manually in a thread about EDC recommendations.

Still missing the point.

A person that wants EDC, wants it to avoid doing exactly that, this kind of person can go up to 1-way. I know as I am one.

However, thanks for confirming that to outperform Tractive Touring and Intrax 1k2 in comfortability, one needs to jump to 2-3-4 way systems.

Despite all that anger and frustration, you 've basically confirmed the very thing you are supposedly arguing against.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by noemon

Your confusion and projection is now bordering the ridiculously pathetic.

The only thing I said was that the NITRON EDC version has not been tested by anybody.

Your confusion is the conventional R3 has been around for the same amount of time as your setups. The e-tron R3 is a new addition and is being developed, along with the e-tron Roadsport and e-tron R1. No forum reviews doesn’t mean they are not being used and fine tuned for comfort and performance

You jumped with explicit marketing statements, "years" and other marketing nonsense that you have clearly been fed about an untested system to which you received an appropriate reply. Live with it and move on instead of doubling down on your confusion. Both Intrax and Tractive have proven patents and have had their own standalone electronic system for many years before Nitron.

What marketing nonsense did I say about the conventional line up? EDC line up? I’ve talked to their engineers as well as their distributor & official service/rebuild shop run by a former damper engineer at the highest levels of motorsport. I wasn’t spouting off limit marketing info after you spouted off marketing info. I’m still waiting for the source proving Nitron dampers use 1960s damper technology and the oem/hypercars using TracTive and Intrax. Again, someone sold you on something using patents or did you research Nitron looking for their patents? Your last statement is pretty obvious considering Nitron is just developing EDC/standalone semi-active dampers.


Not the first time you get confused because you 're jumping the gun. Click me.

I did say I may have missed it. I really wasn’t looking for “fussy Mrs.” And look at that, it was from a bad TracTive review.

Congrats, I hope you 're now done with the penis contest.

Penis contest? You’re the one that converted an EDC discussion into an Intrax discussion by stating there are no other high-end dampers with the comfort and performance as the Intrax and TracTive yet you’ve experience is limited to only those two dampers. Bold biased statement based on your level of experience and knowledge.

This is the only on-topic statement you made and along with the rest of your marketing statements, it is very doubtful. So you are welcome to prove your claim about the feedback received on the 2 systems.

You ask about reviews yet when there’s a bad review of the absolute best, nothing even comes close dampers, you call it doubtful So why even wait for forum reviews if you pick-and-choose reviews?

Yes please tell us more, how we all need to learn to setup 3-4 way systems manually in a thread about EDC recommendations.

You switch this discussion to non-EDC dampers along with your biased “my dampers are the best” opinion. Intrax is a 1-way damper that adjusts both R and C by a fixed amount in the same direction. Rarely do suspension changes want/require R and C changes in the same direction and by the same coupled amount on the street and especially on track with varying corners, braking zones and bumps/undulations. This actually makes your Intrax inferior to a true 2-way adjustable damper.

Still missing the point.

Nope

A person that wants EDC, wants it to avoid doing exactly that, this kind of person can go up to 1-way. I know as I am one.

However, thanks for confirming that to outperform Tractive Touring and Intrax 1k2 in comfortability, one needs to jump to 2-3-4 way systems.

Your system is a poor-man’s 2-way damper. You don’t need a 3 or 4 way. The point was you have a 1-way system and yet state it’s doubtful any damper is better so I pointed out the systems you haven’t even tried which will be far superior to your 1-way damper, not just match it or barely outperform it. However, 1-way and a true 2-way damper are really all that’s needed.

Despite all that anger and frustration, you 've basically confirmed the very thing you are supposedly arguing against.

That I’ve built a better street, grand tourer and track setup using non-stock spring rates than your Inrax setup? Or my experience is based on actual experience using multiple high-end dampers from MCS, Moton, JRZ, Penske, Ohlins, and Bilstein CS (yes, no Nitron direct experience) and know the difference between true high-end dampers vs. wannabe high-end dampers? Or admitting true high-end race dampers have similar street and track characteristics and performance? For the track, properly setup, we’re talking 0.01-0.10 sec differences but larger for your Intrax stock spring rate (without bump stops). I also know there is no single-best damper. I’m not angry. What the one thing you say I’ve confirmed?

[b_w.]

If you want a planted feel look at MCS 2wr. Not EDC but I feel, and feedback from passengers, my fully hiemed/ solid jointed f80 with 1000 lb springs soaks up bumps incredibly well. 18 independent adjustments to get the feel right will give you way more range than 3 presets.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by b_w.

If you want a planted feel look at MCS 2wr. Not EDC but I feel, and feedback from passengers, my fully hiemed/ solid jointed f80 with 1000 lb springs soaks up bumps incredibly well. 18 independent adjustments to get the feel right will give you way more range than 3 presets.

OP is looking for edc options at a price < ~$3600, maybe higher if KW DDC is a viable option. It was then converted to a discussion about a single non-EDC option even farther away from the OP’s max budget and uses stock soft spring rates (not adjusted to account for bump stops limiting bump travel), not by me but I’ve been blamed for it somehow. I absolutely would have recommended a MCS 2WR setup if it was within his budget. Nitron was thrown under the bus and accused of using 1960s damper technology which I’m still waiting for the source of this information. Nitron elec-tron Roadsport and TracTive touring are realistic options if KW DDC is added to the list.

The OP down selected from the list of available plug-n-play aftermarket EDC setups (it was claimed that Intrax supposedly offers a semi-active setup but I can’t find it?) and asked how these options compare. I incorrectly rated them in terms of performance, not street ride quality. From multiple reviews, it’s been claimed repeatedly the KW DDC setup is very comfortable on the street. One owner had both the Bilstein B16 damptronic and then the KW DDC. KW DDC ride quality was far better than the B16 damptronic which he said had a very harsh street ride quality. The other Bilstein damptronic options have had mixed reviews on the harshness of their lineup. This is about the time it switched to Intrax with practically the same stock spring rates and an EDC option not selected by the OP. It’s interesting that a person limited to first-hand experience of two dampers rates them as the absolute best #1 and #2 dampers available for the f8x His TracTive setup has by now spent more time at TracTive than mounted on his car but that wasn’t mentioned which calls BS to his claim they’ll take anything you throw at it.

The f8x is fortunate to have several high-end damper options available to choose from. As you’re aware, MCS 2WR can absorb F/R 800/1200 lbf/in spring rates far better than the oem dampers. Imagine what the MCS 2WR, and 1WNR, would do with stock spring rates and a reservoir pressure of 100 psi? It would be sublime but it’s doubtful from the person with limited experience of using only two dampers with limited combined mileage.

[bipp]

I have the Jason / OG Shark Motorsports Nitron R1 on my E92. At softer settings (2 clicks from full soft), they are compliant and liveable over city driving including some of the worse roads in Northern California. I have 700/800 spring rates. I believe that using the RoadSport with EDC and the 500/700 spring rates will be very compliant for street / fast road driving. On my street / soft settings on the R1, it passes the "girlfriend test" but we are both in our early twenties.

OGSM specced Nitrons have differently tuned dampening from the out of the box kits to prioritize road manners as well. It might also be worth the consideration that Inertia Lab will be able to provide quick turnarounds of rebuilds, whereas Intrax might be a bit more involved in that aspect. TracTive does not necessarily carry the best reputation for out of the box reliability.

It might also be worth noting that Californians' perception of "bad roads" is a marathon away from how bad roads can be in the American Northeast or the UK. With that in mind, I feel like you'll probably be fine with the "wife test".

Lastly, it might also be worth considering the after-purchase support. Jason is a direct point of contact if you choose to go with Nitron RoadSport and I have corresponded with him a fair bit over email asking for suggestions for setup and progression, and he's also someone who has driven M cars at a higher level than many of the vendors here. I am personally not interested in EDC setups and am interested in Intrax, but my future buying for upgrades will be primarily motivated by the availability of someone in the same country who can help me sort through my own frequent idiocy. I would recommend shooting OG Shark a DM about the RoadSport.

sidenote: how much of the complaints about the B16 stem from not resetting EDC adaptation during install? iirc that was an issue for the E9x B16s.

side, like really side note: why EDC? if you are tracking the car then it might make sense to have the additional fine tuning of knobs. if you are not, then realistically you might be able to go with something like the regular Nitron RoadSport or even stretch the budget to MCS 2WR to have a setup you can daily and drive on canyon roads, then crank up at the paddock when you take it to the track. on 4 clicks from full soft on my R1, I find that it gets me to more performance than EDC sport with a bit less comfort than EDC comfort.

edit: in saying that I'm interested in Intrax, I mean that I am curious about their ARC and Black Titan technologies but would still forego them due to lack of support in North America.